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It is not the tank, it's the player.

Suuuure.

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Volatile_Squirrel #1 Posted 04 March 2018 - 07:59 PM

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Yea, right.

 

Yea, this is a rant but hey, I don't care.

 

Got into habit of checking players stats after game to check who-the-hell-did-I-just-fought-with/against.

 

Reoccurring theme is that people who can't even scratch 50% win mark suddenly learned how to play with all new ruski pieces of... tanks.

I add to that Japanese crap tanks. How can player who barely does 1500 dmg per game in any of his tier 10 tanks suddenly deals over 2k damage. Must be that he found tank that matches his playstyle. You know, the brainless one.

 

Yea, I know, you all heard it before. Now you hear it from me too.

Have a nice day.



Frostilicus #2 Posted 04 March 2018 - 08:10 PM

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I think the biggest difference between a "bad" player and a "good" one is often consistency.

 

I had a battle recently where one of our team started complaining during countdown about how rubbish the team was - gg we lose, all that rubbish. 

About 2/3 of the way through the battle I ended up defending with this guy, and a couple of others, we beat off the enemy team and pulled what looked to be a miserable defeat into a rather satisfying victory.

I checked the complainer's stats after the battle as I had congratulated him in battle and assumed he was a decent player - turns out he was a 49%er - probably having the game of his life!

 

So, with this in mind, I would submit that this is a healthy dollop of confirmation bias, mixed in with some low average players have a good game :)



TungstenHitman #3 Posted 04 March 2018 - 08:10 PM

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I was tempted to try these Japanese mobile bunker SPG hybrid machines for myself just to see how boring and noob they truly are but I just can't tolerate that type of playstyle plodding along no need to aim playstyle. Being targeted by SPG all the time doesn't look like much fun either... in fact forget the entire HT options unless they are those really fast Soviet ones like the T-10

Knight_Zao #4 Posted 04 March 2018 - 10:49 PM

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actually i saw something like this today, lol......

 

I checked a player in a 430U and after the game he had done 4k in a normal game, so I thought, good job i bet he is a good player, so i click on his game stats and well..........

 

44% WR player, 

 

Average damage in; IS7 - 1200, OB140 - 800, Leo 1 - 1100, and Maus - 1100, yet in the 430U it was 2700.......ok, maybe he played the other tanks along time ago, however i very much doubt this

 

This "evidence" would go against the Its not the tank, its the player, although i do agree a good player will do very well in most tanks, however, the new Russian tanks the OBJ268-4 and OBJ430U might have broke this rule.......

 

I got the 430U yesterday and played 3 games and my average DPG is 5400 lol.........wtf......now i know it will go down, quite alot...but as they say, what cant speak cant lie!!


Edited by Knight_Zao, 04 March 2018 - 10:50 PM.


XxKuzkina_MatxX #5 Posted 05 March 2018 - 02:35 AM

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How dare those people have a good game in a good tank? This is absolutely outrageous, a most unnatural and unthinkable thing. WG must do something about that, they should be banned...and the south shall rise again and all that!!!

Shivva #6 Posted 05 March 2018 - 02:51 AM

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View PostKnight_Zao, on 04 March 2018 - 09:49 PM, said:

actually i saw something like this today, lol......

 

I checked a player in a 430U and after the game he had done 4k in a normal game, so I thought, good job i bet he is a good player, so i click on his game stats and well..........

 

44% WR player, 

 

Average damage in; IS7 - 1200, OB140 - 800, Leo 1 - 1100, and Maus - 1100, yet in the 430U it was 2700.......ok, maybe he played the other tanks along time ago, however i very much doubt this

 

This "evidence" would go against the Its not the tank, its the player, although i do agree a good player will do very well in most tanks, however, the new Russian tanks the OBJ268-4 and OBJ430U might have broke this rule.......

 

I got the 430U yesterday and played 3 games and my average DPG is 5400 lol.........wtf......now i know it will go down, quite alot...but as they say, what cant speak cant lie!!

 

That seems normal to me. For instance taking myself as an example, suppose I have a tier 8 tank with 1'000 avg dmg, I'm not hitting around 1k every game, I'm just not that consistent. For me it would probably run something like this for damage in consecutive games 500dmg, 500dmg, 3kdmg, 0dmg,,,A fair amount of bad performances along with some average games and a few very good ones.

 

edit: I meant normal as in bad players getting a high dmg game every now and then not normal that that WG should chuck such OP tanks in.


Edited by Shivva, 05 March 2018 - 02:55 AM.


TheWarrener #7 Posted 05 March 2018 - 08:09 AM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 05 March 2018 - 02:35 AM, said:

How dare those people have a good game in a good tank? This is absolutely outrageous, a most unnatural and unthinkable thing. WG must do something about that, they should be banned...and the south shall rise again and all that!!!

Ye, they should kinda do something about the fact that some tanks can carry bad players towards great results. Go be rebelious somewhere else, where it actually makes sense 



Knight_Zao #8 Posted 05 March 2018 - 08:46 AM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 05 March 2018 - 01:35 AM, said:

How dare those people have a good game in a good tank? This is absolutely outrageous, a most unnatural and unthinkable thing. WG must do something about that, they should be banned...and the south shall rise again and all that!!!

 

you missed my point, he has ALL good games in one tank and bad games in ALL other tanks, which kinda suggest its the tank not the player, wouldnt you agree ? 

DracheimFlug #9 Posted 05 March 2018 - 08:56 AM

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View PostKnight_Zao, on 05 March 2018 - 08:46 AM, said:

 

you missed my point, he has ALL good games in one tank and bad games in ALL other tanks, which kinda suggest its the tank not the player, wouldnt you agree ? 

 

Depends on what the other tanks are. He might be just better in heavies generally, for example, or maybe just really bad in, say, mediums (and doesn't play lights, TD's, or arty much). Depends also what tier the other tanks are, how many games played in them (possibly much worse crews, the one good tank is maybe the only one he's equipped, etc....). 

 

Global stats are a far better indicator (and do indicate that some tanks are OP). Individual cases are always poor evidence.



ypr765prco #10 Posted 05 March 2018 - 09:02 AM

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Element6 #11 Posted 05 March 2018 - 10:04 AM

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Unless you find that such players have a very high battlecount in such tanks, you can't judge them based on the battle you had with them. Me having 58% WR in the 430 II with 1286 WN8 after 236 battles being down to the tank? I think not, it's just as much down to the teams I've had in it.

 

How should I then judge the 46% player I had in my team on Paris last week, that did 4.5k damage in his Lorr. 40t in a T10 battle, 2k more than the 58% player in his T9 tank?



NoobySkooby #12 Posted 05 March 2018 - 10:21 AM

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So basically you are saying if they have a poor win rate they should not play, well you can go forth and multiply with that one, you are no one to dictate who can and who cannot play a game. I am no tank master but I will play this game until WG goes bust and the servers are shut down, which seeing as the profits they make, does not seem likely anytime soon.

Mimos_A #13 Posted 05 March 2018 - 10:29 AM

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View Postkaptainkrunch, on 05 March 2018 - 10:21 AM, said:

So basically you are saying if they have a poor win rate they should not play, well you can go forth and multiply with that one, you are no one to dictate who can and who cannot play a game. I am no tank master but I will play this game until WG goes bust and the servers are shut down, which seeing as the profits they make, does not seem likely anytime soon.

Where do you get the idea that he says anything like that? He says he thinks it's bad that there are tanks that are so strong that even very weak players can easily get great results in them. Results that they can't get in any other tank. It basically means that the game doesn't reward skill anymore, but just rewards picking the right tank, making the game boring, unrewarding and takes away any form of variety.



DracheimFlug #14 Posted 05 March 2018 - 10:41 AM

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View PostMimos_A, on 05 March 2018 - 10:29 AM, said:

Where do you get the idea that he says anything like that? He says he thinks it's bad that there are tanks that are so strong that even very weak players can easily get great results in them. Results that they can't get in any other tank. It basically means that the game doesn't reward skill anymore, but just rewards picking the right tank, making the game boring, unrewarding and takes away any form of variety.

 

Then link the global stats, not just those of one player. As it stands it sounds like 'Whaaa, someone who should be bad is actually contributing!'

 

Oh and tank choice has always mattered.


Edited by DracheimFlug, 05 March 2018 - 10:42 AM.


TheWarrener #15 Posted 05 March 2018 - 10:46 AM

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View PostElement6_TheSprout, on 05 March 2018 - 10:04 AM, said

How should I then judge the 46% player I had in my team on Paris last week, that did 4.5k damage in his Lorr. 40t in a T10 battle, 2k more than the 58% player in his T9 tank?

That guy who basecamped whole battle and did 9k dmg by pure luck in his top tier t95 on QBs channel has to be the best player in the world then. I mean, he had one good game, he's a great player, right?

 

Also the fact that you're bringing up exactly the same battle as you did about a week ago in discussion with me proves exactly that tomatoes get these games by blind luck and don't deserve them.


Edited by TheWarrener, 05 March 2018 - 10:50 AM.


Element6 #16 Posted 05 March 2018 - 11:01 AM

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View PostTheWarrener, on 05 March 2018 - 10:46 AM, said:

That guy who basecamped whole battle and did 9k dmg by pure luck in his top tier t95 on QBs channel has to be the best player in the world then. I mean, he had one good game, he's a great player, right?

 

Also the fact that you're bringing up exactly the same battle as you did about a week ago in discussion with me proves exactly that tomatoes get these games by blind luck and don't deserve them.

Are you found of hyperboling? Why should he be the best player due to being judged by one battle?

 

The fact that I bring up that battle is because it is the last one I remember, I do not have unicum memory that allows me to remember many battles in detail over time, especially considering I do not check up on players in each and every battle that I play. If such a player has such a battle on blind luck, does that mean that a 70% player loses 30% of his battles on blind bad luck?

 

Not deserving that battle is as stupid as a football fan claiming that a team that beat the one he is rooting for didn't deserve that win. How do you figure that? The team that lost deserved to win despite playing worse than the team that beat them? That doesn't sound like much else than elevated feelings of entitlement. If you lose you didn't deserve to win, it's that simple.



Aikl #17 Posted 05 March 2018 - 11:26 AM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 04 March 2018 - 07:10 PM, said:

I was tempted to try these Japanese mobile bunker SPG hybrid machines for myself just to see how boring and noob they truly are but I just can't tolerate that type of playstyle plodding along no need to aim playstyle. Being targeted by SPG all the time doesn't look like much fun either... in fact forget the entire HT options unless they are those really fast Soviet ones like the T-10

 

While undeniably broken, the Japs have the advantage of actually being able to push flanks and can be useful even as bottom-tiers. Doesn't feel like SPGs shoot it more than other tanks, despite being really slow. We all know why.

 

Still wouldn't count on them remaining good forever. They wreck havoc in passive corridor gameplay, but are "easy" to deal with in a crossfire situation.



Mimos_A #18 Posted 05 March 2018 - 11:51 AM

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View PostDracheimFlug, on 05 March 2018 - 10:41 AM, said:

 

Then link the global stats, not just those of one player. As it stands it sounds like 'Whaaa, someone who should be bad is actually contributing!'

 

Oh and tank choice has always mattered.

 

Quote

Reoccurring theme is that people who can't even scratch 50% win mark suddenly learned how to play with all new ruski pieces of... tanks.

 

Are you going to tell me you haven't noticed a trend with certain tanks?


Edited by Mimos_A, 05 March 2018 - 11:55 AM.


Balc0ra #19 Posted 05 March 2018 - 11:56 AM

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One does well in one tank... the other does well in all of them. Having a few forgiving tanks can do that. It's not like the bad player will dominate you in a crap tank. As the other one would.

Mimos_A #20 Posted 05 March 2018 - 12:02 PM

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View PostAikl, on 05 March 2018 - 11:26 AM, said:

 

While undeniably broken, the Japs have the advantage of actually being able to push flanks and can be useful even as bottom-tiers. Doesn't feel like SPGs shoot it more than other tanks, despite being really slow. We all know why.

 

Still wouldn't count on them remaining good forever. They wreck havoc in passive corridor gameplay, but are "easy" to deal with in a crossfire situation.

 

They have the same problem as a Maus and Obj 268-V4. While definitely not unbeatable, they are kind of like raidbosses. As long as they have just a little bit of support they're really, really hard to take out. So you basically have to take out all their friends first and then gang up on them. Now, that's all fine if there's limited numbers of those tanks, but with more and more tanks like that coming into the game it starts becoming a problem.

Edited by Mimos_A, 05 March 2018 - 12:03 PM.





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