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The Value Of BIA vs Other Skills/Perks


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TungstenHitman #1 Posted 05 March 2018 - 12:03 PM

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Hi guys,

 

A crew skill question to the forum to ponder on. I recently started playing the HC again (it was similar playstyle to STRV 74 grind) and I have come to the completion of the 2nd set of skills. Now my question with be based on having 2.5 sets of skill since we all race to 50% of an new skill really quickly. Firstly take a look at the crew now, see their current skills and perks.

 

 

So, my main objective here is to improve gun handling, to increases the likelihood of hitting a target. Now, with the HC for most the crew there really isn't much else to be had in terms of skills and perks that can potentially be better with the BIA perk +50% of new another skill and this is my question.

 

As you can see I have Snap Shot which gives 7.5% improvement to accuracy loss while moving my turret, lovely. I have Smooth Ride which gives 4% improvement to accuracy loss while shooting on the move, nice but it ain't a light tank, still, I have shot on the move needs be and often enough so yes worth having even for a TD. So at this point, the only really gainful skill option to chose would be Recon and Off Road King. But would it be more gainful to go with BIA at this point as that 5% crewskill gain might equal and maybe surpass some of these skills?

 

Would this

 

Commander - BIA - 6th S  - camo(50%)

Gunner         - BIA - camo - Snap (50%)

Driver           - BIA - camo - Smooth (50%)

Radio OP     - BIA - camo - Situ (50%)

Loader         - BIA - Safe   - camo (50%)

 

Actually be better overall than this?

 

Commander - 6th S - camo      - Recon(50%)

Gunner         - camo - Snap      - Fire/Repairs(50%)

Driver            - camo - Smooth - Off Road(50%)

Radio OP      - camo - Situ        - Fire/Repairs(50%)

Loader          - camo - Safe        - Fire/Repairs(50%)

 

Would the overall improvement from BIA along with 50% of those former skills actually be an overall gain? Wouldn't the BIA boost camo, boost, aim time, boost accuracy and boost view range, when combined with even just 50% of those other skills, to equal or beyond those gains vs those those skills at 100% without BIA?

 

Really interested to get some feedback on this. Sorry for the wall of text but there actually isn't much reading in it :)

 

 



doriansky1 #2 Posted 05 March 2018 - 12:13 PM

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BIA improves everything (DPM, view range, gun handling, cammo) , it's like having half of premium consumable (i.e Case of Cola in this case). So imo the first setup is better for Hellcat. 

 

The problem with both setups is that camo is useless for T-28 Prot , T-30, T110E4. You will have to reset and train repairs instead of cammo when you reach tier 8.

 



Dava_117 #3 Posted 05 March 2018 - 12:23 PM

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I would just train BiA as third skill. It may be a bit longer, but you won't lose the bonus from the other skills.

TungstenHitman #4 Posted 05 March 2018 - 12:27 PM

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View Postdoriansky1, on 05 March 2018 - 11:13 AM, said:

BIA improves everything (DPM, view range, gun handling, cammo) , it's like having half of premium consumable (i.e Case of Cola in this case). So imo the first setup is better for Hellcat. 

 

The problem with both setups is that camo is useless for T-28 Prot , T-30, T110E4. You will have to reset and train repairs instead of cammo when you reach tier 8.

 

 

Ok thanks, was hoping that would be the case, just didn't want to lose too much camo, view range or accuracy by reducing some of those skills on some crew by around 50% for a while, and the 3rd set is slow enough. It's a case of is BIA with some crew on 50% camo and 50% snap and 50% situ equal or better to all crew on 100% camo and 100% the other skills. Ya I forgot about the little increase to ROF too, pretty much a HC with a vent really.

 

As for the other tanks on the line, never gonna happen. I would certainly love the T-30 but I pulled the pulled after trying the tier7, not finding it fun and actually regressive feeling to the HC other than some extra hp and the tier8, no way in hell I'm putting up with that for lots of battles either lol. No this is exclusively a HC build!! :)



TungstenHitman #5 Posted 05 March 2018 - 12:42 PM

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I mean I can't know for sure and couldn't get the answers with the various websites and in-game options. Does Bia plus 50% of situ see as far or even further than situ at 100% plus recon at 50% without BIA?. Does BIA, several crew at 100% camo plus several crew at 50% camo have worse, equal or better camo rating that all crew at 100% camo without BIA?. Does BIA plus 50% Snap Shot have better accuracy while moving turret than 100% Snap shot and no BIA? Does BIA plus no Smooth Ride which is only 4% give better moving accuracy than no BIA and Smooth Ride at 100%


Edited by TungstenHitman, 05 March 2018 - 12:46 PM.


dan_dix #6 Posted 05 March 2018 - 12:43 PM

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You can see the improvement due to BIA in the individual figures in the panel on the right (under Firepower/Mobility/Concealment etc) for the crews where you have it. It's actually more like 2.5% improvement in parameters than 5%.

 

For the HC i think it's necessary to enhance the stealth aspects of the tank as it lives and dies by not being spotted. So, in order of importance you have

- sixth sense

- full camo on all crew

- recon and radio range that improves your spotting

 

then follow

- off-road driving

- snapshot

- anything that improves aiming and ROF, that means BIA

 

I had myself the same (or similar) question and I think for the Hellcat the only significant improvement I would need from BIA is increased ROF, and aiming, on the rest the individual skills give you more overall. So I would go for answer B, I would choose repairs rather than firefighting where nothing else is available, I rarely see the tank go in flames but engine gets knocked out a lot. But you can set yourself the goal on which aspect you want improved on the tank and then use the calculator in the interface to see which combination gives you better results.

 

I see you already 3-marked it so you must know what you are doing anyway. Don't think the skills will do much difference...



Edweird #7 Posted 05 March 2018 - 12:47 PM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 05 March 2018 - 11:03 AM, said:

Hi guys,

 

A crew skill question to the forum to ponder on. I recently started playing the HC again (it was similar playstyle to STRV 74 grind) and I have come to the completion of the 2nd set of skills. Now my question with be based on having 2.5 sets of skill since we all race to 50% of an new skill really quickly. Firstly take a look at the crew now, see their current skills and perks.

 

 

So, my main objective here is to improve gun handling, to increases the likelihood of hitting a target. Now, with the HC for most the crew there really isn't much else to be had in terms of skills and perks that can potentially be better with the BIA perk +50% of new another skill and this is my question.

 

As you can see I have Snap Shot which gives 7.5% improvement to accuracy loss while moving my turret, lovely. I have Smooth Ride which gives 4% improvement to accuracy loss while shooting on the move, nice but it ain't a light tank, still, I have shot on the move needs be and often enough so yes worth having even for a TD. So at this point, the only really gainful skill option to chose would be Recon and Off Road King. But would it be more gainful to go with BIA at this point as that 5% crewskill gain might equal and maybe surpass some of these skills?

 

Would this

 

Commander - BIA - 6th S  - camo(50%)

Gunner         - BIA - camo - Snap (50%)

Driver           - BIA - camo - Smooth (50%)

Radio OP     - BIA - camo - Situ (50%)

Loader         - BIA - Safe   - camo (50%)

 

Actually be better overall than this?

 

Commander - 6th S - camo      - Recon(50%)

Gunner         - camo - Snap      - Fire/Repairs(50%)

Driver            - camo - Smooth - Off Road(50%)

Radio OP      - camo - Situ        - Fire/Repairs(50%)

Loader          - camo - Safe        - Fire/Repairs(50%)

 

Would the overall improvement from BIA along with 50% of those former skills actually be an overall gain? Wouldn't the BIA boost camo, boost, aim time, boost accuracy and boost view range, when combined with even just 50% of those other skills, to equal or beyond those gains vs those those skills at 100% without BIA?

 

Really interested to get some feedback on this. Sorry for the wall of text but there actually isn't much reading in it :)

 

 

 

Alternatively use gold to retrain (if you have the money)

 

I always endeavor to BIA my crews as a matter of priority

 

yes as others have said it improves every thing accuracy, speed cammo.

 

Presently I have my AT7 with a BIA crew with fans and the accuracy is 0.28!

 

 



dan_dix #8 Posted 05 March 2018 - 12:48 PM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 05 March 2018 - 12:42 PM, said:

I mean I can't know for sure and couldn't get the answers with the various websites and in-game options. Does Bia and 50% of situ see as far or even further than situ at 100% and recon at 50% without BIA?. Does BIA, several crew at 100% camo and several crew at 50% camo have worse, equal or better camo rating that all crew at 100% without BIA?. Does BIA and 50% Snap Shot have better accuracy while moving turret than 100% Snap shot and no BIA? Does BIA and no Smooth Ride which is only 4% give better moving accuracy than no BIA and Smooth Ride at 100%

 

What I said before, use the parameter browser on the right to see the figures reported. Find a crew that has said skill/perk, calculate the percentage improvement reported, then apply the same to your combination and see what gives. It's not an easy calculation, why would WG make such trivial things easy when they can make them complicated...

TungstenHitman #9 Posted 05 March 2018 - 12:56 PM

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View Postdan_dix, on 05 March 2018 - 11:48 AM, said:

 

What I said before, use the parameter browser on the right to see the figures reported. Find a crew that has said skill/perk, calculate the percentage improvement reported, then apply the same to your combination and see what gives. It's not an easy calculation, why would WG make such trivial things easy when they can make them complicated...

 

Well this is it. I can find out what the figures are with 100% of this or 100% of that but not combinations of some at 100% some at 50% all at 50% etc and it doesn't show any option for Snap Shot and Smooth Ride along with some other things so it's really much to go on. I know it's not a big deal but.. would be nice to know what road to take. I suppose either option won't be catastrophic but why waste lots of battles worth of crew skills % gained with a somewhat clueless decision

PervyPastryPuffer #10 Posted 05 March 2018 - 12:57 PM

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Well you can always check on https://tanks.gg/ and then pick what would be best for you, I found that snap shot and smooth ride don't give that much of a bonus to accuracy during movement so they're useless on fairly accurate tanks, but considering the Hellcat is quite inaccurate while moving, it might help more than I think... BiA increases overall accuracy when fully aimed in, track traverse speed (IIRC) and view range by a bit which you'll need in a TD like the Hellcat.



NUKLEAR_SLUG #11 Posted 05 March 2018 - 01:01 PM

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I'd train up the 3rd set of skills as they are cumulative so you can use them until they get to 100% and then you can think about dropping them for BIA.

8126Jakobsson #12 Posted 05 March 2018 - 01:26 PM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 05 March 2018 - 12:03 PM, said:

Commander - BIA - 6th S  - camo(50%)

Gunner         - BIA - camo - Snap (50%)

Driver           - BIA - camo - Smooth (50%)

Radio OP     - BIA - camo - Situ (50%)

Loader         - BIA - Safe   - camo (50%)

 

 

I like this. Switch safe for camo as second and we're home. :great:



fabse #13 Posted 05 March 2018 - 01:41 PM

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First get three full perks. Then drop the skills/perks and replace a skill (camo or repair) with BIA. You can then add this skill as the 4th. I would advise to get some 50% on the 4th skill/perk before doing this switch, this can be done in some 20-40 battles. Ideally, you wait untill the reskill price is reduced.

 

Getting BIA before is not worth it, camo and repair improve your survivability significantly. Viewrage perks are also very good. Getting BIA immediately is the peasants way and is only viable on arty.



dan_dix #14 Posted 05 March 2018 - 01:55 PM

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View Postfabse, on 05 March 2018 - 01:41 PM, said:

First get three full perks. Then drop the skills/perks and replace a skill (camo or repair) with BIA. You can then add this skill as the 4th. I would advise to get some 50% on the 4th skill/perk before doing this switch, this can be done in some 20-40 battles. Ideally, you wait untill the reskill price is reduced.

 

Getting BIA before is not worth it, camo and repair improve your survivability significantly. Viewrage perks are also very good. Getting BIA immediately is the peasants way and is only viable on arty.

 

and at 3+ skills/perks, re-skill only with gold, cause for silver at 90% the loss is too big (150k XP loss, auch!). WG's way to make money...

 

On all I totally agree with this, I find more and more that BIA on anything that's not a heavy lumbering heavy or arty is only worth from 3 skill onwards



250swb #15 Posted 05 March 2018 - 05:27 PM

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Agree with the above, don't go for BIA until you have three full skills/perks. Also on any TD I'd not go with 'smooth ride' as a first choice for the driver but 'clutch breaking'. It's not improving firing on the move that's important but turning the tank on the spot whether its a fixed gun TD or TD with a slow turret traverse, you need to turn the hull fast.

LordMuffin #16 Posted 05 March 2018 - 05:33 PM

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I would definitely go with first one.
Maybe change commander camo for Recon on 3rd skill.

 

I am also cheap and don't retrain crews at all.

So would pick bia as 2nd and 6th sense + camo as first.


Edited by LordMuffin, 05 March 2018 - 05:35 PM.


HeidenSieker #17 Posted 05 March 2018 - 05:58 PM

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View Post250swb, on 05 March 2018 - 05:27 PM, said:

'clutch breaking'

 

You don't want to do that. Blinking spleeing chuckers.

vuque #18 Posted 05 March 2018 - 06:23 PM

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Personally I would go with BIA, because it improves everything but hey, this is just me. :P

arthurwellsley #19 Posted 05 March 2018 - 06:24 PM

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So looking at the post nerf Hellcat. The turret turns more slowly, it reverses far worse than it used to, and gun bloom from turret and hull movement was increased. Because of the reverse speed nerf it is now in much greater danger if spotted, and so camo is a priority. However BIA helps with the traverse and the bloom issues. I do not run my Hellcat with an AFE. I use oil instead to make the turret rotate faster. My usual priority for many turretted vehicles is Snap Shot and Smooth Ride for the obvious advantages they bring combined together. However in your case I am more inclined to go for the first option over the second just for the all round advantage BIA will give the HC.

 

Although I see the temptation in the second option to take Off Road for the assistance it might give in reversing, the advantage is most felt on soft or wet ground (maximum advantage is 10% at 100%), medium ground is less of an advantage (2.5% at 100% perk), and it has no effect on roads, cobblestone, or asphalt. Since the issue is often poking a ridge, getting spotted and wishing to reverse away the 2.5% will probably be the multiplier in effect at the times when you need it. I am not sure therefore I would prioritise this Perk.

 

Would go for the first, although I can see the benefits of the second. It's a pretty tight call. Both are probably decent.

 

Patch Notes = https://worldoftanks...lease-notes-93/

 

Characteristics of the following American vehicles changed:

M18 Hellcat:

  • Dispersion on the move and hull traverse for M18 T67 suspension increased by 60%.
  • Crossing capacity for M18 T67 suspension on solid terrain reduced by 9%.
  • Crossing capacity for M18 T67 suspension on medium terrain reduced my 14%.
  • Crossing capacity for M18 T67 suspension on soft terrain reduced by 9%.
  • Dispersion on the move and during hull traverse for M18 T69 suspension increased by 57%.
  • Crossing capacity for M18 T69 suspension on solid terrain reduced by 10%.
  • Crossing capacity for M18 T69 suspension on medium terrain reduced by 17%.
  • Crossing capacity for M18 T69 suspension on soft terrain reduced by 10%.
  • Top reverse speed reduced from 20 km/h to 12 km/h.
  • Dispersion for 76 mm AT Gun M1A2 on turret traverse increased by 12%.
  • Reload time for 90 mm AT Gun M3 for M18 M1 turret changed from 8 s to 8.5 s.
  • Dispersion for 90 mm AT Gun M3 on turret traverse increased by 25%.

Edited by arthurwellsley, 05 March 2018 - 06:27 PM.


TankSchmidt #20 Posted 05 March 2018 - 07:13 PM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 05 March 2018 - 12:56 PM, said:

Well this is it. I can find out what the figures are with 100% of this or 100% of that but not combinations of some at 100% some at 50% all at 50% etc and it doesn't show any option for Snap Shot and Smooth Ride along with some other things so it's really much to go on. I know it's not a big deal but.. would be nice to know what road to take. I suppose either option won't be catastrophic but why waste lots of battles worth of crew skills % gained with a somewhat clueless decision

 

I did something for you... :hiding:

 

tl;dr

 

...and here are the details:

 

longer, but please still read

 






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