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cheating philosophy and other stories, WG failed?

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MegaDeltaFighter #1 Posted 06 March 2018 - 07:59 AM

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on my opinion WG has failed to control and mitigate cheating in world of tanks and this why they have started violent actions,

while death sentence is considered cruel, excessive use of force and a violent action and penalty, WG after a warning will sentence

the user account to death penalty and this is while there is no trial, no evidence, no answer, nothing at all just execution.

all these shows the weakness of WG to bring the problem under control.

to have a more clear image of the problem first of all let's see why players use cheat mods and what's the motivations

1- some players who failed to be successful or have less game play performance than what they expect or desire, or want to seem superior

    use cheat mods to get better results and stand in higher position than they really deserve.

2- some players have cheaters among friends and see how they get better results while they have less game play skills or/and they are targeted

    by other players in the game that seems (or are for sure) using cheat mods and they have been disappointed by WG successful mitigation

    of the problem and have no hope the situation come to a solution, they may want to use cheat mods to make the game more fair (by using the same

    cheat mods friends or opponents use) while WG has failed to establish a criteria to force the game fair play policy they have developed.

3- some players are not familiar with the case they have came to play and enjoy, not read policies and policy changes and updates, they are

    not aware some of the mods they just happened  to discover that  exists are actually cheat mods and using them has got some sever penalties

    or they have failed to follow the policies which are kept changing to realize the mod they was got used to use has considered cheating on the last policy change.

   among them there are players who can not find a content available on the web sites and forums in their language and WG has failed to address them.

as you see on 2 of the 3 branch of cheat cause and motivations WG is the one who is directly responsible and should be blamed,and on the first one, WG is partially

responsible so they should actually be punished but these are the players who are punished and should bear the expenses.

in this challenge there are winners and the losers , winners are those who cheat and are not punished,they are many in my opinion, losers are those few who chose to cheat and 

accidentally was detected and punished. and WG is among the both,they lost some things they may not be aware of, and won some things they  do not deserve.

 

while there are lot of areas which needs immediate improvements, cheating problem included, for players to feel a better game play performance

we can see WG managers are more fascinated and proud to improve game graphics and the graphic engine.

they have failed in cheat control,to hide that, they provide statistics to show how many players have discovered cheating and was punished, while they are

unable to provide statistics to show how many players are actually maintaining to use cheat mods.

while there is limited number of cheat mods and cheaters that they are capable  to discover they have chose the silence policy against them to cover the weakness

and violent action and sever penalty is used to control the case by fear spreading. they think fear can fill the gap caused by lake of power to control.

 

 


Edited by MegaDeltaFighter, 06 March 2018 - 08:09 AM.


Frostilicus #2 Posted 06 March 2018 - 08:07 AM

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ok

Ceeb #3 Posted 06 March 2018 - 08:12 AM

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I echo what my gold firing friend says...

 

ok!

 

 



Joggaman #4 Posted 06 March 2018 - 08:17 AM

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Ok

duijm #5 Posted 06 March 2018 - 08:27 AM

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Sorry. Point 2 and 3 are no excusses. Point 2....if your friend steels to get money is that a reason to do the same?

And Point 3 is just not true. If you take the effort to find this crap you also know it is not allowed.

So 2 and 3 is not WG problem. Everybody has the choice not not to use it.

 

I do agree that WG should do much more to find and punish cheaters. 


Edited by duijm, 06 March 2018 - 08:32 AM.


unhappy_bunny #6 Posted 06 March 2018 - 08:28 AM

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erm!

 

OK.



NUKLEAR_SLUG #7 Posted 06 March 2018 - 08:32 AM

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View PostMegaDeltaFighter, on 06 March 2018 - 07:59 AM, said:

they have failed in cheat control,to hide that, they provide statistics to show how many players have discovered cheating and was punished, while they are

unable to provide statistics to show how many players are actually maintaining to use cheat mods.

while there is limited number of cheat mods and cheaters that they are capable  to discover they have chose the silence policy against them to cover the weakness

 

 

Where is your proof of how many players WG have banned versus how many they have allowed to continue playing? You say WG are unable to provide numbers so where are you getting your numbers from to know that any are still  playing?



Archaean #8 Posted 06 March 2018 - 08:36 AM

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What an impressive amoint of dogshit concentrated in one post. By your ingenious post I am a cheater, because my stats aren't top tier. (farfetched)

 

For your information. There are fewer cheaters than you believe there to be. And it's also important to note that cheating won't make you a better player. It will give you a alight edge over other player but if you are a 47 % player you will stay at your shitty 47%. Cheating is annoying bit god damn is it a good reason to use to explain one's own bad performance.

 

You are ine of them OP. Your 49% winrate? It's all because of the cheaters and defintely not because of you. You poor little soul you.

 

God damn it.

 


Edited by Archaean, 06 March 2018 - 08:43 AM.


jack_timber #9 Posted 06 March 2018 - 08:41 AM

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Death penalty.... Bit harsh it's only a game:)

unhappy_bunny #10 Posted 06 March 2018 - 08:54 AM

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Dear MDF,

Assuming you are serious and not trolling (if you are trolling then I have swallowed the bait), could you please explain why you consider WG to be, in any way, responsible for players cheating? 

 

You seem to complain that players are punished for cheating. You complain that players are cheating. You complain that WG arent doing enough to prevent or detect cheating. 

 

I would suggest that you do a little research. Use Google and look up cheating in online games. 

You will find, amongst other things, that:

 

1. Other online games, MMO's, have players cheating AND,

2. Players complain on their forums about cheats and cheaters.

3. Players complain that the game maker does nothing to prevent cheats.

4. Players complain that they get banned for using cheats.

5. Players complain that the maker doesnt publish lists of banned players.

 

WoT is no different, which tends to show that cheating is not as easy to detect and prevent as us players would like to think it is.



250swb #11 Posted 06 March 2018 - 09:17 AM

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Wall of text alert!

OreH75 #12 Posted 06 March 2018 - 09:23 AM

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View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 06 March 2018 - 08:32 AM, said:

 

Where is your proof of how many players WG have banned versus how many they have allowed to continue playing? You say WG are unable to provide numbers so where are you getting your numbers from to know that any are still  playing?

 

He must have the famous "48%-cheat-detection-skill" and WG should really offer him a job.

 

ontopic:

1) My friend does it and his WN8 increased by a whopping 10 points, i gotta use it too.

2) "Everybody better then or shooting me is cheating".

3) If you know there are mods then you, or at least the cheating friend, should also know there is a policy.


Edited by OreH75, 06 March 2018 - 09:27 AM.


MegaDeltaFighter #13 Posted 06 March 2018 - 09:31 AM

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View Postunhappy_bunny, on 06 March 2018 - 08:54 AM, said:

Dear MDF,

Assuming you are serious and not trolling (if you are trolling then I have swallowed the bait), could you please explain why you consider WG to be, in any way, responsible for players cheating? 

 

You seem to complain that players are punished for cheating. You complain that players are cheating. You complain that WG arent doing enough to prevent or detect cheating. 

 

I would suggest that you do a little research. Use Google and look up cheating in online games. 

You will find, amongst other things, that:

 

1. Other online games, MMO's, have players cheating AND,

2. Players complain on their forums about cheats and cheaters.

3. Players complain that the game maker does nothing to prevent cheats.

4. Players complain that they get banned for using cheats.

5. Players complain that the maker doesnt publish lists of banned players.

 

WoT is no different, which tends to show that cheating is not as easy to detect and prevent as us players would like to think it is.

 

well you and some few others had some points, I did not try to teach or preach I just thought about a problem and tried to make some points, came to some understanding and tried to share it, have others thoughts and feelings and maybe cause some change for good by attracting WG staff attention to the problem.

I knew some people tend to attack the speaker not to respond the thoughts and use offending not reasoning I am happy you and some others are not among them.

I am not going to rationalize cheating, I just tried to understand the cause and motivations. I am aware that it is not an easy task to do but I believe there is more can be done in technical and policy making area

I believe this problem and other problem I have not raised in this topic are important, may be more than graphic engine improvements,  and can be dealt better with community involvement.

yes, the problem is common among many other games, but we are playing this so we talk about this.there are always complains those are more successful who can address the problems in better ways.

I feel I want still play this game that's why I care, and why I share while I am really annoyed from some people who can just offend or fail to demonstrate a reasoning power yet tend to speak so find it easier to attack speaker not the speech.

I hope it has been clear that I am not defending the cheat, I just tried to list the cause and motivations to consider the problem from better point of view and be able to address it in better way.

and to answer your first question WG is the ruler and manager of the game they are responsible to have game problems under control, if they fail to control number 1 cheaters the number of number 2 cheaters

increases, and it is clear that they are responsible for lake of information in number 3 cheaters. and they are partially responsible for number 1 cheaters cause by failing to control them others with the same motivations will join and  the number of them increases.

WG is earning from the game, they invest some to improve graphic engine sure they have to  invest some to improve other aspects that affect game play performance, in my opinion in those area cheating control problem included they was not as good as expected. in one of them (not mentioning here it is clear why if you read to the end )  they chose to punish who complain and keep problem covered cause they fail to solve

 

 


Edited by MegaDeltaFighter, 06 March 2018 - 10:08 AM.


MegaDeltaFighter #14 Posted 06 March 2018 - 09:46 AM

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View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 06 March 2018 - 08:32 AM, said:

 

Where is your proof of how many players WG have banned versus how many they have allowed to continue playing? You say WG are unable to provide numbers so where are you getting your numbers from to know that any are still  playing?

 

How many players are banned is what WG annonce every now and then,

how many are still there WG with all the means and budget they have got fail to measure but sure they have some estimates they will never publish and it is clear why, I have my own estimates, limited as my means are, not the way one of players said (whoever is shooting me or is better than me is a cheater) for sure  what I can say is that they are plentiful, let see if WG deny it.(they don't and they wont)

 

 


Edited by MegaDeltaFighter, 06 March 2018 - 09:47 AM.


OreH75 #15 Posted 06 March 2018 - 09:54 AM

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View PostMegaDeltaFighter, on 06 March 2018 - 09:31 AM, said:

 

I hope it has been clear that I am not defending the cheat, I just tried to list the cause and motivations to consider the problem from better point of view and be able to address it in better way.

 

How many players do you think cheat? How many you see in a gaming session? Why do you think cheating is a problem? Because me personally don't think its such a big problem..I don't care if someone wants to remove all bushes on his client, I dont care if someone need lasers to see where everyone is  aiming, the only mod the might be really helpful in a 1 vs 1 is the minimap destruction mod but then how many games end in a 1 vs 1... not so many if you see all the cry topics about MM...

Edited by OreH75, 06 March 2018 - 09:56 AM.


Draz_H #16 Posted 06 March 2018 - 10:14 AM

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ok

Mav75 #17 Posted 06 March 2018 - 10:35 AM

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Ok.

 

Weren’t you banned for cheating?



Archaean #18 Posted 06 March 2018 - 11:15 AM

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View PostOreH75, on 06 March 2018 - 09:54 AM, said:

How many players do you think cheat? How many you see in a gaming session? Why do you think cheating is a problem? Because me personally don't think its such a big problem..I don't care if someone wants to remove all bushes on his client, I dont care if someone need lasers to see where everyone is  aiming, the only mod the might be really helpful in a 1 vs 1 is the minimap destruction mod but then how many games end in a 1 vs 1... not so many if you see all the cry topics about MM...

 

Correct, the object destruction mod is the one cheat mod that is the worst of them all, but only at the end of the game when it's 1 vs 1/more. I don't understand why people keep crying about aim bot. Heck, they seem not to understand that aim bot only aims at weak spots but RNG is still in effect.

 

View PostMegaDeltaFighter, on 06 March 2018 - 09:46 AM, said:

 

How many players are banned is what WG annonce every now and then,

how many are still there WG with all the means and budget they have got fail to measure but sure they have some estimates they will never publish and it is clear why, I have my own estimates, limited as my means are, not the way one of players said (whoever is shooting me or is better than me is a cheater) for sure  what I can say is that they are plentiful, let see if WG deny it.(they don't and they wont)

You sure feel that you are impressively self-important, right? There's a reason why cheat detection is hard and the only reason is it's tied to law. If you lost me there, it's your fault. Go read up the law pertaining to privacy and you will see why it's difficulte to detect cheaters. 

 

Furthermore, your estimates don't matter at all. By your very first post you practically made everyone better than you a cheater. But this doesn't matter too much as I'm not bored enough to get hurt by your statement. What's painful though is that you believe yourself to be superior in this subject than many others.

 

Oh, and you mentioned the reasons why someone would use cheat mods. Why is that important? There are many different reasons and there is not one SOLE defining reason to point your finger on. I just don't understand what you are trying to achieve with this thread. You really lost me at your first wall of text. 



NUKLEAR_SLUG #19 Posted 06 March 2018 - 11:39 AM

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View PostMegaDeltaFighter, on 06 March 2018 - 09:46 AM, said:

 

How many players are banned is what WG annonce every now and then,

how many are still there WG with all the means and budget they have got fail to measure but sure they have some estimates they will never publish and it is clear why, I have my own estimates, limited as my means are, not the way one of players said (whoever is shooting me or is better than me is a cheater) for sure  what I can say is that they are plentiful, let see if WG deny it.(they don't and they wont)

 

 

 

Yes, every so often WG run a ban wave and ban a load of people they say they caught cheating. You say WG aren't banning every cheater but you haven't explained how you know this. How do you know that any cheaters still remain after each ban wave? Where is your proof?

 

You say you have your own estimates but without any proof your estimate is nothing more than a number you just decided to make up because it felt good. You say you know they are plentiful. Ok, prove it. Show us a couple replays of someone clearly cheating.

 



MegaDeltaFighter #20 Posted 06 March 2018 - 11:47 AM

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View PostArchaean, on 06 March 2018 - 11:15 AM, said:

 

Correct, the object destruction mod is the one cheat mod that is the worst of them all, but only at the end of the game when it's 1 vs 1/more. I don't understand why people keep crying about aim bot. Heck, they seem not to understand that aim bot only aims at weak spots but RNG is still in effect.

 

You sure feel that you are impressively self-important, right? There's a reason why cheat detection is hard and the only reason is it's tied to law. If you lost me there, it's your fault. Go read up the law pertaining to privacy and you will see why it's difficulte to detect cheaters. 

 

Furthermore, your estimates don't matter at all. By your very first post you practically made everyone better than you a cheater. But this doesn't matter too much as I'm not bored enough to get hurt by your statement. What's painful though is that you believe yourself to be superior in this subject than many others.

 

Oh, and you mentioned the reasons why someone would use cheat mods. Why is that important? There are many different reasons and there is not one SOLE defining reason to point your finger on. I just don't understand what you are trying to achieve with this thread. You really lost me at your first wall of text. 

on your first reply you started with offending and then carried on to attack my game results that's why I totally neglected it,that was not what I want to address.

who ever I am noob player, cheater, what ever , it is not important. I made a point shared some thought that's what should be concentrated on, that's what should get a reply, agree?

that's not important who speaks, it is important what's said.

I do not know how you got my feelings, but I am happy you consider me important :)  yes sure you did not mean to admit it.

well in the rest of your reply the thing that worth answering is this point: I categorized cheaters motivations to 3 I will be happy if you can add other category of motivations to it.


Edited by MegaDeltaFighter, 06 March 2018 - 12:06 PM.





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