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Skorpion G -> EXPOSING the WoT LIES


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PerpetuumRex #1 Posted 08 March 2018 - 10:49 PM

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I have recently purchased the skorpion G (shouldn't have bothered really) and I noticed that the damage rolls were low. I do not have a lot of games in the tank, but I did record the rolls I had over 5 games.

Now bare in mind that:

 

- I am still learning the tank

- I've only made a note of those shots that could have rolled greater than 490 (i.e. tanks with full hp)

 

The result are worrying, the 490 avg alpha is a lie. These are the shots (replays are available upon request)

 

Game 1: 370, 466, 429, 472, 470

Game 2: 458, 381, 478, 493

Game 3: 450, 460

Game 4: 521, 447

Game 5: 582.

ACTUAL AVG ALPHA: 462.6428571428571

Again I have not taken into account if for instance I would 1 shoot enemy arty or low hp tanks that had less than 490 hp left.

 

I realize this isn't a huge sample and there will be people saying I should record it for more games, but to those I have 2 things to say:

 

1. I think 5 games is more than enough in terms of the end-user experience.

2. I will keep making note and saving replays.

 

I am very displeased with this and I think WoT have reacted to people complaining about the Skorpion G's alpha and have changed the RnG in the background (like we all know they like to do).

 

 


Edited by PerpetuumRex, 08 March 2018 - 10:51 PM.


Pansenmann #2 Posted 08 March 2018 - 10:50 PM

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View PostPerpetuumRex, on 08 March 2018 - 10:49 PM, said:

 

I realize this isn't a huge sample and there will be people saying I should record it for more games, but to those I have 2 things to say:

 

The sample size is much too small.

report back after about 1-2k shots fired.



PerpetuumRex #3 Posted 08 March 2018 - 10:53 PM

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View PostPansenmann, on 08 March 2018 - 09:50 PM, said:

 

The sample size is much too small.

report back after about 1-2k shots fired.

 

Yeah thank you for your randomness (1-2k shots fired, really? why not 100, why not 10k?), but if I pay real money for something, I expect it to work as advertised every game, not every 500 games.

 


Edited by PerpetuumRex, 08 March 2018 - 10:56 PM.


Pansenmann #4 Posted 08 March 2018 - 10:55 PM

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View PostPerpetuumRex, on 08 March 2018 - 10:53 PM, said:

 

Yeah thank you for your randomness (1-2k shots fired, really? why not 100, why not 10k?), but if I pay real money for something, I expect it to work as advertised every game, not every 500 games.

 

 

*sigh*

 

OK. you know the meaning of the word "average" and how this value applies to shell mechanics - do you?


Edited by Pansenmann, 08 March 2018 - 10:56 PM.


DracheimFlug #5 Posted 08 March 2018 - 10:56 PM

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View PostPerpetuumRex, on 08 March 2018 - 10:53 PM, said:

 

Yeah thank you for your randomness (1-2k shots fired, really? why not 100, why not 10k?), but if I pay real money for something, I expect it to work as advertised every game, not every 500 games.

 

 

Because if you flip a coin three times and get heads three times it does not mean the coin is rigged. If you are looking at too small a sample it can give misleading results.

PerpetuumRex #6 Posted 08 March 2018 - 10:57 PM

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View PostPansenmann, on 08 March 2018 - 09:55 PM, said:

 

*sigh*

 

OK. you know the meaning of the word "average" - do you?

 

I think I do, but I'm not sure, maybe you could fill me in, as by looking at some of your stats you seem to be an expert.

 



PerpetuumRex #7 Posted 08 March 2018 - 10:59 PM

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View PostDracheimFlug, on 08 March 2018 - 09:56 PM, said:

 

Because if you flip a coin three times and get heads three times it does not mean the coin is rigged. If you are looking at too small a sample it can give misleading results.

 

I didn't flip a coin or fire 3 times. I played 5 games.

Surely I don't have to wait until game 100 for the RnG to go towards a positive value, right?

I mean after all, where on WoT's terms and conditions when you buy the tank does it say you have to fire these many shots to get the average alpha?



Pansenmann #8 Posted 08 March 2018 - 10:59 PM

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View PostPerpetuumRex, on 08 March 2018 - 10:57 PM, said:

 

I think I do, but I'm not sure, maybe you could fill me in, as by looking at some of your stats you seem to be an expert.

 

 

by far I am not, but this might help you

 

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ammo

Damage - The average damage the shell does upon a penetrating hit.

The damage value given in game is an average value, which is subject to a random +/- 25% modifier.

Shells will not always do the same damage every time they penetrate, but will always do within 25% of the average damage value.

The only exception to this is high explosive rounds, which can sacrifice some of the damage they do for additional penetration (see High-Explosive section).

 

 


Edited by Pansenmann, 08 March 2018 - 11:05 PM.


Consett_Steel #9 Posted 08 March 2018 - 11:02 PM

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Are these sort of people trolling or are they really this thick?

PerpetuumRex #10 Posted 08 March 2018 - 11:06 PM

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View PostPansenmann, on 08 March 2018 - 09:59 PM, said:

 

by far I am not, but this might help you

 

 

 

 

Most of your battles are at tiers 5-7, so from that point of view, you're playing the average tier tanks.

With the exception of Pz IV and Type 59 which are credit makers, the rest of your most played tanks follow the scenario where you seal club players with less than 2k battles.

 

I am glad you found the article and have sent it to me. I have yet to find where on http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ammo does it say I have to fire 1-2k shots for the average alpha to be obtained.

Maybe your superior seal clubbing skills can point to where in that article this information is written.



PerpetuumRex #11 Posted 08 March 2018 - 11:08 PM

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View PostConsett_Steel, on 08 March 2018 - 10:02 PM, said:

Are these sort of people trolling or are they really this thick?

 

I apologize if I am not at your level.

Obviously you know way more about the game than I do, since you have got less battles than I have and way less wn8.



Balc0ra #12 Posted 08 March 2018 - 11:10 PM

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View PostPerpetuumRex, on 08 March 2018 - 10:49 PM, said:

1. I think 5 games is more than enough in terms of the end-user experience.

 

And the next 5 games it might be 501. It's 25% high or low. So it's still a 50% chance that it will be below 490 the next 5 games, just as it has a chance to be over. It's called average damage for a reason. Not consistent damage.

Pansenmann #13 Posted 08 March 2018 - 11:11 PM

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View PostPerpetuumRex, on 08 March 2018 - 11:06 PM, said:

 

Most of your battles are at tiers 5-7, so from that point of view, you're playing the average tier tanks.

With the exception of Pz IV and Type 59 which are credit makers, the rest of your most played tanks follow the scenario where you seal club players with less than 2k battles.

 

I am glad you found the article and have sent it to me. I have yet to find where on http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ammo does it say I have to fire 1-2k shots for the average alpha to be obtained.

Maybe your superior seal clubbing skills can point to where in that article this information is written.

 

beg you pardon

are you nuts?


Edited by Pansenmann, 08 March 2018 - 11:11 PM.


DracheimFlug #14 Posted 08 March 2018 - 11:14 PM

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View PostPerpetuumRex, on 08 March 2018 - 10:59 PM, said:

 

I didn't flip a coin or fire 3 times. I played 5 games.

Surely I don't have to wait until game 100 for the RnG to go towards a positive value, right?

I mean after all, where on WoT's terms and conditions when you buy the tank does it say you have to fire these many shots to get the average alpha?

 

A whopping 14 shots, less than 3 shots per battle. Again, random does not mean if your coin flips heads the next flip must be tails to ensure balance. If you flip heads twice, it does not mean that the next flip must be tails either. The odds of 14 coin flips out of 14 ALL being tails is only 1 in 16,384. If you consider tails to be 'low rolls' and heads to be 'high rolls' and consider how many players there are, you will realize that there are many players who have similar series of low rolls. And others who have series of high rolls.

 

You were just unlucky.

 

Over a large number of rolls, it evens out.

 

Edit: Oh and I was citing the odds of 14 low rolls together. 2 of your rolls were on the high side. 


Edited by DracheimFlug, 08 March 2018 - 11:16 PM.


HugSeal #15 Posted 08 March 2018 - 11:19 PM

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View PostPerpetuumRex, on 08 March 2018 - 10:49 PM, said:

I realize this isn't a huge sample and there will be people saying I should record it for more games, but to those I have 2 things to say:

 

1. I think 5 games is more than enough in terms of the end-user experience.

2. I will keep making note and saving replays.

 

 

 

What you think actually doesn't matter in the slightest. There are rules for how you calculate these things, your perception of a situation doesn't change that.

 

View PostPerpetuumRex, on 08 March 2018 - 10:53 PM, said:

Yeah thank you for your randomness (1-2k shots fired, really? why not 100, why not 10k?), but if I pay real money for something, I expect it to work as advertised every gamenot every 500 games.

 

 

And it works as advertised every game. Every game your avberage alpha will be 490 with a +-25% added on that. Claiming it doesn't work as advertised is claiming the damagerolls falls outside that spectrum, which they don't.

 

 

 

View PostPerpetuumRex, on 08 March 2018 - 11:06 PM, said:

I am glad you found the article and have sent it to me. I have yet to find where on http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ammo does it say I have to fire 1-2k shots for the average alpha to be obtained.

Maybe your superior seal clubbing skills can point to where in that article this information is written.

 

 

Actually that knowledge comes from very basic math. It is probably assumed that anyone able to calculate an average damage of 10 or so shots are also capable of understanding the very basics of average values.

 

But the fact that you went straight to name calling and insulting people I'd say you are one of those people that come here claiming something and if anyone disagrees they will lash out. If you follow the average you should start calling people trolls within about 4 posts.

 

 


Edited by HugSeal, 08 March 2018 - 11:26 PM.


wsatnutter #16 Posted 08 March 2018 - 11:20 PM

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A m8  brought me this tank and im poo poo

In it  cos I play to agressive a player 

 

 

 

OP it' the player not the tank 

 



K_A #17 Posted 08 March 2018 - 11:22 PM

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This guy is seriously saying that, of all tier 8 premiums in the game, the Skorpion G is bad and somehow the game is rigged against it? 

 

 

I don't know, I can't even... 

 

Spoiler

 



TsundereWaffle #18 Posted 08 March 2018 - 11:25 PM

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:thinking:

Nishi_Kinuyo #19 Posted 08 March 2018 - 11:27 PM

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Think we got a manga/anime protagonist here...

He sure is dense enough to be one at least.

 

Still though, your sample size is far too small to get any meaningful data from.

Again, come back after you've recorded 1000-2000 shots, discounting shots that kills an enemy.

Then you can see if your tank is chronically rolling below average or not.

 

And I'll throw you a little bone: I've been keeping track of exactly that for my Chi-Ri over the course of 68 battles, although I included kill shots so the result is a bit below average. My average damage roll (61 kill shots included) over 536 penetrations was 122,29 out of the 130 average damage roll that the Chi-Ri has on the 7.5cm Tank Gun Type 5 Model I.

Not quite the 1000 battles I mentioned, but sizable enough to get some indication at least, and with a deviation of less than 8 with kill shots included is enough to conclude that yes, the average damage roll is average.

I am willing to post a screenshot of my gathered data if you don't believe me.

 

Got another similar data set for my Chi-Nu, although that one is only 26 battles, with 159 penetrations and 35 kill shots. (Average 117,16 out of 125.)


Edited by Nishi_Kinuyo, 08 March 2018 - 11:29 PM.


PerpetuumRex #20 Posted 08 March 2018 - 11:28 PM

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View PostDracheimFlug, on 08 March 2018 - 10:14 PM, said:

 

A whopping 14 shots, less than 3 shots per battle. Again, random does not mean if your coin flips heads the next flip must be tails to ensure balance. If you flip heads twice, it does not mean that the next flip must be tails either. The odds of 14 coin flips out of 14 ALL being tails is only 1 in 16,384. If you consider tails to be 'low rolls' and heads to be 'high rolls' and consider how many players there are, you will realize that there are many players who have similar series of low rolls. And others who have series of high rolls.

 

You were just unlucky.

 

Over a large number of rolls, it evens out.

 

Edit: Oh and I was citing the odds of 14 low rolls together. 2 of your rolls were on the high side. 

 

1. A coin can land on either of 3 sides (2 sides and 1 edge), not 2 (unless you're from a 2D world). While it's unlikely that it will land on the edge, it must be taken into consideration when discussing abstract probabilities.

2. Your understanding of average in this situation is that it's okay for WG to average out the alpha across X amount of games, where X in my case is greater than 5?

3. I have no interest in other players's stats about my tank, as (in theory) more people playing the same tank shouldn't affect the damage or penetration rolls of every individual player for that tank, right?

 

I work in IT and I can safely say computers don't know how to produce "lucky" or "unlucky" unless they've been specifically told to do so. I do not think this was chance, I think this is something else.

I will keep on making a note of the shots I take. this post was just introductory.

 

 

 






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