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The remove/rework of the sigma...


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Thejagdpanther #1 Posted 15 March 2018 - 03:40 PM

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... could be a solution to make gun dispersions great again?

Maybe an hard technical argument that few could help me understand... but I'm sick tired of +0,38 guns that snap me from the other side of the map.

Any input?


Edited by Thejagdpanther, 15 March 2018 - 03:42 PM.


Rage_Quit_Inc #2 Posted 15 March 2018 - 03:45 PM

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I am not even bothered about that as that's just bad luck, its the sitting 200 meters away from a tom Heavy with a .30 gun missing 5 fully aimed shots in row

Edited by Rage_Quit_Inc, 15 March 2018 - 03:45 PM.


_Hakkapeliitta_ #3 Posted 15 March 2018 - 03:46 PM

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did u even think that how many time this 0.38 gun snapped you, he has failed snap anyone 30 times and now he finally get hit u need more RNG and even bigger dispersion.... maybe you should go and play only boardgames

Edited by _Hakkapeliitta_, 15 March 2018 - 03:46 PM.


Simeon85 #4 Posted 15 March 2018 - 03:46 PM

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You just need to stretch the accuracy stats, 90% of the guns in the game are pretty much in the 0.30 to 0.40 margin.

 

Which means at 100m their aim circles only differ by 10cm in size.

 

Bigger aim circles bigger variations within that circle. If the circles were very small, I mean like some tanks had 0.1 accuracy they would be very accurate at long ranges, and if guns that were supposed to be derpy at the other end got pushed closer and above 0.5 you;d see a marked difference between accurate and non-accurate guns. Plus you wouldn't have to fiddle with the accuracy calculations too much. 



Loken_ #5 Posted 15 March 2018 - 03:52 PM

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There are actually people out there that think making the accuracy RNG even worse than it is already is a good idea? 

Rage_Quit_Inc #6 Posted 15 March 2018 - 03:54 PM

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View PostLoken_, on 15 March 2018 - 02:52 PM, said:

There are actually people out there that think making the accuracy RNG even worse than it is already is a good idea?

 

Well yes because the more random the game is the less skill it takes to play it

Thejagdpanther #7 Posted 15 March 2018 - 03:54 PM

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Well, i would like to see a marked difference between an accurate gun and a derp gun/inaccurate gun.
If the dispersion is irrilevant since the sigma percents drive all the shoots to the center what is the "plus" of have an accurate gun with low alpha if the average joe from the other side of the map could snap me (ofc im exagerating) with a non accurate gun with higher alpha?

I have always intended that alpha>accuracy guns are better in short range, and alpha<accuracy guns are better at long range.

For sure i'm missing something...
 

View PostLoken_, on 15 March 2018 - 03:52 PM, said:

There are actually people out there that think making the accuracy RNG even worse than it is already is a good idea? 

 

actually i want the exacly opposite ^^

Edited by Thejagdpanther, 15 March 2018 - 03:56 PM.


Homer_J #8 Posted 15 March 2018 - 04:00 PM

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View PostThejagdpanther, on 15 March 2018 - 02:40 PM, said:

... could be a solution to make gun dispersions great again?

Maybe an hard technical argument that few could help me understand... but I'm sick tired of +0,38 guns that snap me from the other side of the map.

Any input?

 

No rework will stop people getting a lucky hit.  The shell has to go somewhere, sometimes it's where you are.

Rage_Quit_Inc #9 Posted 15 March 2018 - 04:01 PM

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View PostThejagdpanther, on 15 March 2018 - 02:54 PM, said:

Well, i would like to see a marked difference between an accurate gun and a derp gun/inaccurate gun.
If the dispersion is irrilevant since the sigma percents drive all the shoots to the center what is the "plus" of have an accurate gun with low alpha if the average joe from the other side of the map could snap me (ofc im exagerating) with a non accurate gun with higher alpha?

I have always intended that alpha>accuracy guns are better in short range, and alpha<accuracy guns are better at long range.

For sure i'm missing something...
 

 

actually i want the exacly opposite ^^

 

Ok in simple terms every tanks has an aiming circle THAT circle is a physical representation of your accuracy when you fire aimed or not you shot will always fall within that circle the batter accuracy the smaller the circle meaning at mid to long ranges for example a gun with .3 will have the circle smaller than the tank he is aiming at meaning he will always hit (not talking about penning here) , a .4 gun at the same distance will have the circle slightly bigger than the tank so that there is a chance the shell can fall within his circle but miss the tank. the effect is that you can miss with .4+ guns but they will still fall on the aim point dead centre THE SAME amount of times as the 0.3 gun.

Edited by Rage_Quit_Inc, 15 March 2018 - 04:04 PM.


Archaean #10 Posted 15 March 2018 - 04:06 PM

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RNG is really something precious. It makes sniper tanks like Grille 15 and Leopard 1 obsolete.

brumbarr #11 Posted 15 March 2018 - 04:07 PM

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View PostArchaean, on 15 March 2018 - 04:06 PM, said:

RNG is really something precious. It makes sniper tanks like Grille 15 and Leopard 1 obsolete.

On the contrary, having no RNG, so meaning you hit where you aim, would make them obselete.



brumbarr #12 Posted 15 March 2018 - 04:08 PM

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View PostRage_Quit_Inc, on 15 March 2018 - 04:01 PM, said:

 

Ok in simple terms every tanks has an aiming circle THAT circle is a physical representation of your accuracy when you fire aimed or not you shot will always fall within that circle the batter accuracy the smaller the circle meaning at mid to long ranges for example a gun with .3 will have the circle smaller than the tank he is aiming at meaning he will always hit (not talking about penning here) , a .4 gun at the same distance will have the circle slightly bigger than the tank so that there is a chance the shell can fall within his circle but miss the tank. the effect is that you can miss with .4+ guns but they will still fall on the aim point dead centre THE SAME amount of times as the 0.3 gun.

Define dead center? As the chance for any tank to hit dead center is currently 0%.



Gkirmathal #13 Posted 15 March 2018 - 04:14 PM

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There are several ways of achieving this, but most are labor intensive (time vs costl) to implement. Thus WG choose a middle ground solution, that is what we have now.

 

Easiest possibility would be:

- increase sigma again and differentiate accuracy stat (a.k. your aim circle size) much more between guns/tanks; Or

- keep current sigma and do the same differentiation of accuracy stat for guns.

 

The hardest ones would need reprogramming of the game engine:

- make it use more than one sigma value for shot dispersion calculations. Having several sigma's, under which you can group all the gun types in game. So derpy guns would be grouped under a lower sigma, more accurate ones under a higher; Or

- make the shot dispersion calculation sigma some dynamic function of for example: gun caliber, barrel length and hull/turret movement.



Cobra6 #14 Posted 15 March 2018 - 04:22 PM

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Enjoy the new map design where IS-3's can now go hull down effectively everywhere because Wargaming made the maps a lot flatter "to not handicap tanks with little gun depression". :teethhappy:

 

Cobra 6



Loken_ #15 Posted 15 March 2018 - 04:26 PM

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View PostThejagdpanther, on 15 March 2018 - 02:54 PM, said:

Well, i would like to see a marked difference between an accurate gun and a derp gun/inaccurate gun.
If the dispersion is irrilevant since the sigma percents drive all the shoots to the center what is the "plus" of have an accurate gun with low alpha if the average joe from the other side of the map could snap me (ofc im exagerating) with a non accurate gun with higher alpha?

I have always intended that alpha>accuracy guns are better in short range, and alpha<accuracy guns are better at long range.

For sure i'm missing something...
 

 

actually i want the exacly opposite ^^

 

The sigma doesn't drive all shots to the center, especially not after the 9.6 accuracy changes. If you split the aim circle into 10 rings (dividing the radius equally by 10) a larger number of shots actually go into the first ring out rather than the bullseye. This works out to have a much smoother drop off in shot density over the middle 20% of the aim circle than before.


Edited by Loken_, 15 March 2018 - 05:14 PM.





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