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Whatever happened to the heroes?


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NitroDeluxe #1 Posted 16 March 2018 - 01:06 PM

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See, when I first started playing back in early 2013 and I had got into my first tier 6 games (as a tier 4), I was surprised how difficult it was just to stay in the match let alone do anything usefull.  I soon installed XVM and saw how many good players were playing in tanks like the KV-1S, Hellcat, Cromwell, VK36.02 etc (the tanks that were very good tier for tier before the nerf hammer).  I thought I'd better start learning fast if I want to have anywhere near like a decent game.  And it seemed that as I progressed, the more good players I saw further up the tiers.  Of course I realised that my mistakes were punished even more, so I learned more, particulary by watching what those good players did. 

 

I was quite surprised to find out that more I played the upper tiers the more my win rate improved, even though at say tier 8 there seemed to be a large concentration of green+ players.  I thought that I would have more of a difficult time, but no, it proved to be the other way around as I long as I applied what I had learned.  Occasionally,  the games were so close and well played by both teams that I used to congratulate the opposite side if they won.

 

Now I've never been one to criticise individuals for their ratings because it's grossly childish and pathetic.  But when I see teams as whole these days from tier 6 to tier 9 comprised mostly of players with stats so low it would make a bot blush (and how is it possible for a player to achieve a wn8 rating under 100 without refusing to fire a gun?), I do wonder where have a lot of these good players have gone.  And I know the numbers of good players in tier 8 have dwindled slowly over the years, but it's in recent months that it seems to have become a lot worse.

 

The problem I see with the quality of players is that of a good player not being able to make up for bad players lack of contribution to the game, because there are too many of them.  This imo, has been excacerbated by the endless altering of maps to block off long range shooting and long range spotting opportunities to help others sometimes as little as 300m away when on the same map years ago one could. 

 

Further exacerbation has been caused by the 3-5-7 template, which last night (15 March), Quickybaby showed his digust with on livestream.  Now as most of you will be aware, QB does his best to avoid critising WG unless it's affecting him directly.  On this occasion it seemed a good example of how even if you're a very good player your ability to compensate for others bad play is becoming overstretched.  Where QB had the problem was not in Tier 10 games when he was in a tier 10 tank where there were better players, but when he was playing lower tiers where there were very few good players.  With the 3-5-7 template if your top 3 tanks have poor players in comparison to the opposition, then its pretty much game over.  As of 16th March, QB winrate in the past 500 games is significantly down but his wn8 rating has remained the same, which suggests that his performance was just as good as normal but was not enough to carry because even he couldnt make up uselessness of so many of his team mates.

 

The reason why I mentioned at the beginning about the harshness of tier 6 games back in 2013, was that new players back then learned early on how to play, not just by their mistakes but by meeting and watching good players early on too.  This contributes to the quality of the game, it doesn't stifle it.

 

So part of the fun factor is playing with better players, not worse players.  The more bad players there are and the more good players disappear the worse the game experience becomes.  And all this is correlating with WG's interference with the gameplay over the years.

 

I dont see how the general state of gameplay in tiers 6-9 can improve without splitting the player base between servers.  Say, for example players under wn8 1000 rating on one server, and players above that on another.  The great thing about such an idea is that the bad players wouldn't know any different, but average and above would notice how much gameplay would improve, and then maybe the good players numbers will increase again.



Archaean #2 Posted 16 March 2018 - 01:12 PM

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Wow.

Balc0ra #3 Posted 16 March 2018 - 01:25 PM

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View PostNitroDeluxe, on 16 March 2018 - 01:06 PM, said:

So part of the fun factor is playing with better players, not worse players.  

 

And yet you still think bad playing only with bad will fix it? I mean we have 46% players coming here to complain about bots and bad teams. And if they get their own server. And they feel the same way you do now and leave. It will kill the game off faster then in the current state for sure.

 

AW did the same thing, bad vs bad, good vs good. Killed PVP off in less then 2 weeks.

 


Edited by Balc0ra, 16 March 2018 - 01:25 PM.


discontinued #4 Posted 16 March 2018 - 01:27 PM

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Well you have to ask the Stranglers

 

 



Rati_Festa #5 Posted 16 March 2018 - 01:29 PM

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It would be pretty good though if WG created an optional "ranked" light version though. Where you could play with/against similar skilled allies/enemies, the OP raises a few good points about the quality of play. I had a couple of matches last night were I wondered if the other 14 players even had the mini map open.

vasilinhorulezz #6 Posted 16 March 2018 - 01:29 PM

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https://www.youtube....h?v=OBwS66EBUcY

TankkiPoju #7 Posted 16 March 2018 - 01:38 PM

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View PostNitroDeluxe, on 16 March 2018 - 01:06 PM, said:

Say, for example players under wn8 1000 rating on one server, and players above that on another. 

 

WG has nothing to do with WN8. It's entirely made up by WoT player community.

 

Skill in online games is always relative. If you put a decent player against good players, he will most likely be terrible... because the others are just better.

 

So if you would take all above 50% players on another server, that server would still in few months have 46% and lower players. No real change. Also, there would be even more land slide battles, because good players know when to push enemy team with better tanks. Exactly what happens in ranked game mode.

 


Edited by TankkiPoju, 16 March 2018 - 01:40 PM.


Etre_ #8 Posted 16 March 2018 - 01:42 PM

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View PostNitroDeluxe, on 16 March 2018 - 01:06 PM, said:

Now as most of you will be aware, QB does his best to avoid critising WG unless it's affecting him directly

I have sad news for you ... I'm not aware of anything QB related.

 

Have fun with the walls of text.


Edited by Etre_, 16 March 2018 - 01:43 PM.


arthurwellsley #9 Posted 16 March 2018 - 01:53 PM

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TankkiPoju #10 Posted 16 March 2018 - 01:54 PM

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View PostEtre_, on 16 March 2018 - 01:42 PM, said:

I have sad news for you ... I'm not aware of anything QB related.

 

Can I hang with you cool kids, if I too pretend to not know who QB is.

 

Come on dude, you totally read the wall of text and then just had to make a snide remark towards you-know-who :)


Edited by TankkiPoju, 16 March 2018 - 01:57 PM.


_EXODUZ_ #11 Posted 16 March 2018 - 02:12 PM

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View PostTankkiPoju, on 16 March 2018 - 01:54 PM, said:

 

Can I hang with you cool kids, if I too pretend to not know who QB is.

 

Come on dude, you totally read the wall of text and then just had to make a snide remark towards you-know-who :)

 

You don't have to read to scan "QB" which is mentioned 3 times, just sayin'... :P

NitroDeluxe #12 Posted 16 March 2018 - 02:39 PM

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I'm glad to see there are some here who know their music lol

StinkyStonky #13 Posted 16 March 2018 - 03:06 PM

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View PostTankkiPoju, on 16 March 2018 - 12:38 PM, said:

So if you would take all above 50% players on another server, that server would still in few months have 46% and lower players. 

This is the key point that the OP has totally failed to appreciate.

 

If you took the 300 players in Go-In, MVPS and Fame and put them on a server together, after a while some of the players would have a 60+% WR and 2k+ WN8, while others would be down to 45% WR and <1K WN8.

 

Just imagine if WG  did what the OP suggested.  A skilled novice would soon have a WN8 of 900 and a WR of 65% from constantly playing against low standard players.

Then they would get "promoted" to a server where their opponents are suddenly much better than them and they would instantly see their WR drop to <45%.

It would take them some considerable time to unlearn all the bad habits they'd picked up on the rabbit server.

 

The OP's suggestion is just very bad. 

 



Simeon85 #14 Posted 16 March 2018 - 03:18 PM

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Good players have left because of the dumbing down of the game, Type 5s, other idiot proof heavies, restricted maps, arty, extreme balancing etc, WG are doing everything to diminish the impact of good play by making the game more simple and easier to play, so naturally good players have got annoyed and left. 

 

Plus the changes to CWs and SHs would have annoyed a lot as well.

 

Then you have the template MM system so better players will not want to play in the lower/mid tiers because they will often be bottom tier and unable to do much which is frustration, plus there is not much challenge for them at those levels. When you have an experienced player base then plenty of players will have higher tier vehicles and all the tier 10s they want so they'll play up there and not frequent the lower tiers much.

 

Plus when you get a new tech tree, with boosters you can breeze through tier 5-7 in less than 100 games.

 

So good players don't have much reason to play lower and mid tiers unless they are stat padding, many will only dip into tier 8 to grind credits and would prefer to do that in SHs. 



8126Jakobsson #15 Posted 16 March 2018 - 03:20 PM

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Old heroes die so that that new heroes can be born. Maybe it's just our own fault that there aren't as many to be seen. Maybe we should try harder or something. And by we I mean you because I'm comfortably lazy.

mpf1959 #16 Posted 16 March 2018 - 03:33 PM

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I saw the Stranglers at the Top of the World Stafford in 1976, great band, I always thought they were a bit juvenile when on TOTP though.

Frostilicus #17 Posted 16 March 2018 - 03:37 PM

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View Postmpf1959, on 16 March 2018 - 02:33 PM, said:

I saw the Stranglers at the Top of the World Stafford in 1976, great band, I always thought they were a bit juvenile when on TOTP though.

 

Saw them at Barrowlands in Glasgow in the early 80s, with Xmal Deutschland supporting, ship was in Rosyth and we were on weekend leave so nipped into Glasgow and stumbled across this gig - all the better for not expecting it!

mpf1959 #18 Posted 16 March 2018 - 04:11 PM

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A great band, and Jet Black is a true legend!

MarcoStrapone #19 Posted 16 March 2018 - 04:52 PM

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next time write in short! :izmena:

discontinued #20 Posted 16 March 2018 - 05:00 PM

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View PostNitroDeluxe, on 16 March 2018 - 01:39 PM, said:

I'm glad to see there are some here who know their music lol

 

Well looking at your nickname clearly you know something about music too,

 

great track from my youth,

 

Before house music became widespread it was actually good....

 






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