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Let's be hones for a while... balancing team needs to be fired

Type 5 Heavy Obj. 268 4 Balancing Bullpoop

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Matthew054 #1 Posted 19 March 2018 - 11:38 PM

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So here's the thing. World of tanks has become one of the most popular games out there. Everyone was enjoying the game, the fun it brought. With every patch there is more are more awesome stuff that comes to play, open new possibilities, new approach to the game. Cherry on the top is patch 1.0 with more changes than ever. Game looks ASTONISHING and it is true eye candy to me.

 

Unfortunately that's the end of superlatives. Yes we can look at the beautiful game, but that's all. Metagame and playstyle is on a long downhill run. In my opinion game designers realise din one moment "hey, we have a good game and lots of people want to play it, lets milk their money". Until than we could seen some tanks on battlefield that was performing slightly better than other,. but in general it was still okay. Casual players could afford to play every tank without bankrupting. But after this point they started adding tanks which are completely balanced to their eyes but the truth is somewhere completely elsewhere. Effectively forcing players to spend more and more credits which leads to buying more premium days (yay they did it, milking is working).

 

After some time while they continue with this absurd trend we get to point where casual player without giving out money just cannot afford to play consistently any tank higher than tier VIII. Why is that? Because in tier IX and tier X games you will alwasy meet tanks like Type 5 Heavy, Type 4 Heavy, Obj. 268 4, Obj. 430U and lets be honest, these abominations are just ridiculous. Without spamming premium ammunition there is just no way to deal with these tanks in classis scenarios (facing each other frontally or angled). In last game on Mountain pass I saw final confirmation of this statement. Obj 268 4 just strolled through bridge to enemy side of map, calmy parked his tank frontally towards 2/3 of enemy team and than just start laughting. And why is this possible? Because our most competent balancing team things that having a tank that cannot be penetrated by any other tank on battlefield even with premium ammo is totally okay. And what will be their excuse (because that;s what do, making excutions instead of fixing)? Tank has a weakspot on  roof and lower lower plate. Well fortunately for Obj 268 4 players there is RNG in the game protecting those weakspots. And  making excuses that tank has  a weak side armor? Pfff. You will never get to the tank side since it has mobility of Batmobile. Do you remeber that recent buff to Maus? Changes raised tanks winrate by 5% I think. from 51 to 55-56. The tank was immediately nerfed in next patch. But now it is okay to release tank that has nearly 57% winrate because it means more money for WG.

 

Type 4/5 Heavy is another story. Are you a player that dont know how to angle properly? Or you dont know where are the weak parts of other tanks? Or you are frustrated than other players with more skill can angle themselves properly? Don't worry! WG has made tank just for you! Let's present you Type 5 Heavy. You don't have to angle yourselves AT ALL, tank has weakspots with 230mm of armor (so others have to actually aim precisley to deal that 300-400 dmg to you). You don't have to aim to weakspots! thats for kids, real steel man shoot HE anywhere he wants and deal more dmg than your opponents even without penetration! You see perfectly angled Maus? Just deal 500 dmg by shooting him anywhere. And guess what?! If you load premium HE you will jsut do more damage, simple as that.

So that's the rreality of current meta game. Players are cursing in game because without premium ammunition they can do poop and WG is filling their pockets adn smile from ear to ear. PAY TO PLAY, PAY MORE TO WIN. 



MaxxyNL #2 Posted 19 March 2018 - 11:41 PM

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Did not read.... old news :harp:

Lord_Edge #3 Posted 19 March 2018 - 11:48 PM

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Yet another Jap SHT whine thread by somebody who's never even played one /yawn

 

Has it ever occured to you that maybe the perceived overpower you see when only looking at the positive aspects of a tank is just, well perceived?  The Jap supers may have thick frontal armour but it's just that, thick flat armour, the protection is binary, if the enemy doesn't have the pen to go through the front it's great but if they do it's completely useless, and considering you can meet many lower tiered tanks that can it's not as big an issue as the endless whine threads make out.  The post only increases hilarity when you start whining about the 268 4, something that's weakness is derp guns lol.

 

Having many many different tanks, some of which are very strong in some areas and very weak in others is what gives the game it's balance and variety.  Complaining because a tank is overpowered because it's great on a corridor map when top tier and nobody on the other team has any premium ammo is just as stupid as complaining it's in desperate need of a buff because it's borderline useless on an open map with arty, or against enemies that can find their "2" key.  Hell the reason you don't see the Types that often anymore is because nobody wants to play a slow boring bank breaking tank (they actually require gold spam to do decent damage, they are pay 2 b competitive not pay 2 win) with troll armour that mostly trolls you.


Edited by Lord_Edge, 20 March 2018 - 12:00 AM.


Exozen #4 Posted 19 March 2018 - 11:56 PM

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Japanse HT tanks are not a problem in armor , they are unable to do any effective angling unlike the Maus , what breaks it is their ability to ignore any kinde of armor with the retarded HE spews.

CraftyVeteran #5 Posted 20 March 2018 - 07:18 AM

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huge target, slow, box shaped flat armor, unreliable gun.  i really fail to see the issue here.

LordMuffin #6 Posted 20 March 2018 - 08:44 AM

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View PostLord_Edge, on 19 March 2018 - 11:48 PM, said:

Yet another Jap SHT whine thread by somebody who's never even played one /yawn

 

Has it ever occured to you that maybe the perceived overpower you see when only looking at the positive aspects of a tank is just, well perceived?  The Jap supers may have thick frontal armour but it's just that, thick flat armour, the protection is binary, if the enemy doesn't have the pen to go through the front it's great but if they do it's completely useless, and considering you can meet many lower tiered tanks that can it's not as big an issue as the endless whine threads make out.  The post only increases hilarity when you start whining about the 268 4, something that's weakness is derp guns lol.

 

Having many many different tanks, some of which are very strong in some areas and very weak in others is what gives the game it's balance and variety.  Complaining because a tank is overpowered because it's great on a corridor map when top tier and nobody on the other team has any premium ammo is just as stupid as complaining it's in desperate need of a buff because it's borderline useless on an open map with arty, or against enemies that can find their "2" key.  Hell the reason you don't see the Types that often anymore is because nobody wants to play a slow boring bank breaking tank (they actually require gold spam to do decent damage, they are pay 2 b competitive not pay 2 win) with troll armour that mostly trolls you.

*sigh*

 

1: Type 5 is overpowered, period. It is statistically proven.

2: Obj 268 v4 is overpowered, period. It is statistically proven. 

 

Those 2 tanks are about as far from balanced you can get.

 

But I guess you claim VK100P, Defender and T67 are also balanced. And the old T18. And old KV-1S and Hellcat, a nd the pre-nerf Maus.

 

And BTW,  Type 5 and Obj 268v4 are always top tier.


Edited by LordMuffin, 20 March 2018 - 08:46 AM.


thestaggy #7 Posted 20 March 2018 - 09:43 AM

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Block Quote

Metagame and playstyle is on a long downhill run

 

Meta may well change with 1.0 because a lot of the maps have been flattened. 

 

1.0 = Rise of the bush wanker.



Matthew054 #8 Posted 20 March 2018 - 10:22 AM

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View PostCraftyVeteran, on 20 March 2018 - 06:18 AM, said:

huge target, slow, box shaped flat armor, unreliable gun.  i really fail to see the issue here.

 

Type 5 Heavy vs Obj. 140 APCR (more pen than Maus, E100, S.Conq) https://goo.gl/d2kksA Yeah, I can't see the problem either. Maybe the tank is made for you than.

It's about effective armor value, not about armor shape!



_Anarchistic_ #9 Posted 20 March 2018 - 10:28 AM

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View PostMatthew054, on 19 March 2018 - 11:38 PM, said:

So here's the thing. World of tanks has become one of the most popular games out there. Everyone was enjoying the game, the fun it brought. With every patch there is more are more awesome stuff that comes to play, open new possibilities, new approach to the game. Cherry on the top is patch 1.0 with more changes than ever. Game looks ASTONISHING and it is true eye candy to me.

 

Unfortunately that's the end of superlatives. Yes we can look at the beautiful game, but that's all. Metagame and playstyle is on a long downhill run. In my opinion game designers realise din one moment "hey, we have a good game and lots of people want to play it, lets milk their money". Until than we could seen some tanks on battlefield that was performing slightly better than other,. but in general it was still okay. Casual players could afford to play every tank without bankrupting. But after this point they started adding tanks which are completely balanced to their eyes but the truth is somewhere completely elsewhere. Effectively forcing players to spend more and more credits which leads to buying more premium days (yay they did it, milking is working).

 

After some time while they continue with this absurd trend we get to point where casual player without giving out money just cannot afford to play consistently any tank higher than tier VIII. Why is that? Because in tier IX and tier X games you will alwasy meet tanks like Type 5 Heavy, Type 4 Heavy, Obj. 268 4, Obj. 430U and lets be honest, these abominations are just ridiculous. Without spamming premium ammunition there is just no way to deal with these tanks in classis scenarios (facing each other frontally or angled). In last game on Mountain pass I saw final confirmation of this statement. Obj 268 4 just strolled through bridge to enemy side of map, calmy parked his tank frontally towards 2/3 of enemy team and than just start laughting. And why is this possible? Because our most competent balancing team things that having a tank that cannot be penetrated by any other tank on battlefield even with premium ammo is totally okay. And what will be their excuse (because that;s what do, making excutions instead of fixing)? Tank has a weakspot on  roof and lower lower plate. Well fortunately for Obj 268 4 players there is RNG in the game protecting those weakspots. And  making excuses that tank has  a weak side armor? Pfff. You will never get to the tank side since it has mobility of Batmobile. Do you remeber that recent buff to Maus? Changes raised tanks winrate by 5% I think. from 51 to 55-56. The tank was immediately nerfed in next patch. But now it is okay to release tank that has nearly 57% winrate because it means more money for WG.

 

Type 4/5 Heavy is another story. Are you a player that dont know how to angle properly? Or you dont know where are the weak parts of other tanks? Or you are frustrated than other players with more skill can angle themselves properly? Don't worry! WG has made tank just for you! Let's present you Type 5 Heavy. You don't have to angle yourselves AT ALL, tank has weakspots with 230mm of armor (so others have to actually aim precisley to deal that 300-400 dmg to you). You don't have to aim to weakspots! thats for kids, real steel man shoot HE anywhere he wants and deal more dmg than your opponents even without penetration! You see perfectly angled Maus? Just deal 500 dmg by shooting him anywhere. And guess what?! If you load premium HE you will jsut do more damage, simple as that.

So that's the rreality of current meta game. Players are cursing in game because without premium ammunition they can do poop and WG is filling their pockets adn smile from ear to ear. PAY TO PLAY, PAY MORE TO WIN. 

 

sorry but you could not be more wrong

 

the things that need to be done to the developers of this game are beyond anything ever done by anyone to anyone in history



Matthew054 #10 Posted 20 March 2018 - 10:45 AM

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View PostLord_Edge, on 19 March 2018 - 10:48 PM, said:

The Jap supers may have thick frontal armour but it's just that, thick flat armour, the protection is binary, if the enemy doesn't have the pen to go through the front it's great but if they do it's completely useless

 

5 stars for designers. Let's create tank that is either completely overpowered or completely useless. Every tank out there which is considered "non problematic" can be penetrated frontally be equal tier tanks (Obj. 140, S.Conq, Cent. X even Badger). Why they are okay is because they have both strong armor parts and weak armor parts. It's up to players skill to find position  where he can used the armor to its max potential. If he makes mistake, overangle, show some weak parts he s punished by HP loss. With Type 5 you just stand in front the tanks. https://goo.gl/d2kksA  Show your whole armor and still none will punish you unless they load premium ammunition. Where the player skill factor in that?

 

View PostLord_Edge, on 19 March 2018 - 10:48 PM, said:

The post only increases hilarity when you start whining about the 268 4, something that's weakness is derp guns lol.

 

Typical WG. Bad map design? Let's create SPG to fix it. We have overpowered HE based tanks? Let's create problems only they can fix by releasing tanks that can be damaged only byHE shells. They don't solve problems, they create role for problems.



Cobra6 #11 Posted 20 March 2018 - 11:17 AM

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Balancing is going down the drain but that is simply because they want you to spam more and more premium ammo, hence the over-importance of armour in the last year or two.

 

The only solution is to fire as little premium ammo as possible to send a message because otherwise it will only get worse and worse.

 

And yes, the people calling the shots on balancing should really take a step back, get financial gain entirely out of their head, and objectively look at the things they are doing because they are truly making more of a mess of the balance with every patch they bring out.

 

Cobra 6



Enforcer1975 #12 Posted 20 March 2018 - 11:28 AM

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We need "unique" tanks.....unique in that they are unikely broken and OP.

 

Balancing has always worked out at some point but they should have learned not to introduce totally unbalanced tanks by now. They have balanced tanks by totally effing them over because they would be too strong otherwise...


Edited by Enforcer1975, 20 March 2018 - 11:30 AM.


Noo_Noo #13 Posted 20 March 2018 - 11:45 AM

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View PostLordMuffin, on 20 March 2018 - 08:44 AM, said:

*sigh*

 

1: Type 5 is overpowered, period. It is statistically proven.

2: Obj 268 v4 is overpowered, period. It is statistically proven. 

 

Those 2 tanks are about as far from balanced you can get.

 

But I guess you claim VK100P, Defender and T67 are also balanced. And the old T18. And old KV-1S and Hellcat, a nd the pre-nerf Maus.

 

And BTW,  Type 5 and Obj 268v4 are always top tier.

 

I would actually say that the Type 5 is broken. It needs a complete rework. 

 

Others I agree are OP, just tuned too high for their tier. 



_b_ #14 Posted 20 March 2018 - 11:48 AM

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Just remember to be polite and in no way mention names of great insightful diligent members of successful balancing team..otherwise you could get quite clearly well deserved warning points :teethhappy::facepalm:

djuro900 #15 Posted 20 March 2018 - 11:48 AM

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View PostCobra6, on 20 March 2018 - 10:17 AM, said:

Balancing is going down the drain but that is simply because they want you to spam more and more premium ammo, hence the over-importance of armour in the last year or two.

 

The  solution is to fire as little premium ammo as possible to send a message because otherwise it will only get worse and worse.

 

And yes, the people calling the shots on balancing should really take a step back, get financial gain entirely out of their head, and objectively look at the things they are doing because they are truly making more of a mess of the balance with every patch they bring out.

 

Cobra 6

 

I agree with everything but this. If we do that than they will say: see premium ammo its not a problem, its rarely used. Like they did with completely bollocks figure that only 5% ammo shot is premium.



SuperDuperOtter #16 Posted 20 March 2018 - 11:49 AM

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Well, the thing is, i pretty sure the balance teams would do a great work if upper management and maketing were to let them do their job without interferences.

Cobra6 #17 Posted 20 March 2018 - 12:22 PM

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View Postdjuro900, on 20 March 2018 - 10:48 AM, said:

 

I agree with everything but this. If we do that than they will say: see premium ammo its not a problem, its rarely used. Like they did with completely bollocks figure that only 5% ammo shot is premium.

 

And what do you think will happen if suddenly all heavy armour is not penetrated and their winratios skyrocket? They'd have to start balancing for regular ammo again.

 

Cobra 6



Gremlin182 #18 Posted 20 March 2018 - 12:30 PM

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There is no such thing as a free online game companies must make money on the deal because.

1 they wouldn't even bother creating games if there was no profit

2 They have expenses, someone has to keep the lights on pay the staff and keep the servers running.

Its not free.

 

Old school pay me £50+ and I will sell you a game, game dies when not enough new players buy the game.

Then came pay £5 a month for access to the game.

Latest model is the one used by Wargaming, pay nothing unless you want to.

 

What you are asking for is the ability to pay no cash of any kind but be able to play tier 10 tanks all the time.

So no premium time ever.

Well you can do that but to survive the company has to make you work for it.

 

Play lower tiers to fund the higher tier tanks.

Win a premium tank to fund the higher tier tanks.

Do even more of the above to pay for premium ammo consumables etc.

 

Some time back there was a lot of whining on the forums sry Ill have to stop doing that ;)

Some time back a number of players expressed concern that.

1 SPGs where far too overpowered so they nerfed SPG damage and pen by 50%

2 TDs and Light tanks were too well hidden and shooting holes in them while remaining invisible.

That led to map changes as well as view range nerfes for TDs and the latest Light tank changes.

3 Premium ammo was making their armour useless. changes were tested on the sandbox but because the model tested also nerfed standard ammo there were more complaints even though the test had just started.

 

Wargaming started making changes to tanks on a nation/type method some nations have had their tanks buffed better gun pen in a lot of cases better armour in others.

If I remember correctly America is next in line for a do over.

 

All of it still needs changes and as we play the game changes will come but it all takes time some of it takes many months.

Would you rather they made changes on a weekly/daily basis based on complaints on the forum.

 

Meanwhile most of the game is still available for totally free play, I had lots of fun running lower tier tanks in the luck of the Irish missions because you could complete them in tier 2 tanks and above.

Not played the LTP,  T-127,  M8A1, T67 Matilda and so on for years.

Also played all my Light tanks even the high tier ones because they too are a lot of fun and you can make a profit no matter what happens.

 

Want the game to be completely free to play at all levels, yeah good luck with that WOT wouldn't get to the end of 2018 before the servers closed for good.

 



Dr_ownape #19 Posted 20 March 2018 - 12:41 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 20 March 2018 - 11:22 AM, said:

 

And what do you think will happen if suddenly all heavy armour is not penetrated and their winratios skyrocket? They'd have to start balancing for regular ammo again.

 

Cobra 6

 

 

yes I'm with you Cobra, let us not spam gold at the enemy when we can't pen them. Let our Epeen be ruined for the sake of those scubs that whine about OP tanks they might meet one of in each battle and can't do anything too them.


 

I jest, clearly, and it is the right solution but it's never going to happen. WG will reach a point where hardly anyone uses normal ammo then they will have the great big pen buff to offset the ruined game play of the armour buff. Then we will have ever bigger differences between mid and high tier games.


 

I'm nearing the end of the STA-1 grind and found that, on most corridor maps, im using more and more gold as to flank them would be suicide and whilst it might help my team win eventually I would die; where is the fun it that? So instead I will stay alive and press 2.



Noo_Noo #20 Posted 20 March 2018 - 01:00 PM

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Hey I'm lucky. Not having the time to play anymore I dont no longer feel the HEAT burn and my WR remains unchanged and I still have credits. 

 

No WN8 progress though :confused:






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