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Wargaming collapsing - Major staff crisis - Jahrakajin gone?


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Asklepi0s #61 Posted 25 March 2018 - 11:17 AM

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Moved to off-topic.

vuque #62 Posted 25 March 2018 - 11:48 AM

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View PostWindSplitter1, on 24 March 2018 - 06:58 PM, said:

 

I do not find this funny.

 

As others have said, there are WG Community Staff that cares and those who don't.

The latter has been gaining ground rapidly these days.

 

View PostAikl, on 24 March 2018 - 07:04 PM, said:

 

Does 'care' cover those who opt to make friendly responses to carefully picked topics that have absolutely no potential to be controversial?

 

I'm surprised they haven't realized it's pretty obvious by now. Not that a few individuals should receive all the attention, but staff isn't often responding to 'controversial' topics. Lately there has at least been some activity in bug-related posts though, which is nice. Fair improvement from responding to very basic questions.

 

Well, we do actually care but unfortunately we can't be present everywhere. We are trying to cover "controversial" topics as well but you need to see that some of those "controversial" topics are kind of ungrounded and thus being skipped by us. However, I do agree that we should be more present.

 

View PostJigabachi, on 24 March 2018 - 08:32 PM, said:

...said noone ever.

Alternatively, we could simply add a bit of RNG to posting on the forums: Whenever you post something, you have a 10% chance to get a warning point and a 5% chance to get a ban right away. Would be quite nostalgic...

 

Why only 10% & 5%? :trollface:

 

View PostAikl, on 24 March 2018 - 09:35 PM, said:

 

That may or may not be a feature still.

 

Anyway, I hope the staff catches the point here.

Moderators should be part of the community, not mere banhammers (a certain mod's avatar comes to mind). That might help to make them appear more reasonable and not <premptively censored due to previous experience with the forum rules, or rather one mod in particular>. Whether that is needed or not might be a matter of opinion, though I think most with a 'moderation history' would agree it is (deserved 'history' or not). Generally, not necessarily based on any individual case, I think 'being reasonable' is not a common trait among the moderation team as a whole.

 

Come to think about it, there was an article published on a well-known blog recently. It was about the behaviour of the moderation team on the NA forum. Surely the EU staff would prefer not to have a similar story about them published in the same fashion, and would prefer to become a tad more reasonable in the future. I'm sure the moderation team knows what I'm referring to.

 

On-topic: A trait of Jahrakajin was the ability to not give warning points for minor, unintentional, infractions. That was part of what made him appear sensible and 'good, but just'.

 

Let me be clear, Moderators shouldn't be part of the community, they are here to moderate the forums.

However, it is part of our job as Community Staff and as previously mentioned, I agree that we should be more present.



Long_Range_Sniper #63 Posted 25 March 2018 - 06:21 PM

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View Postvuque, on 25 March 2018 - 10:48 AM, 

Let me be clear, Moderators shouldn't be part of the community, they are here to moderate the forums.

However, it is part of our job as Community Staff and as previously mentioned, I agree that we should be more present.

 

For example, when moving something “off topic” would it have helped the image of the community team to move the thread off topic with the following phrase,

 

”Hi guys. Thanks for your best wishes to one of our team, and we really appreciate it. But it’s really not gameplay so we’re moving it. All the best, a random mod”

 

There are other ways to do this of course as we have seen.



Karasu_Hidesuke #64 Posted 26 March 2018 - 03:25 PM

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View PostLong_Range_Sniper, on 25 March 2018 - 05:21 PM, said:

 

For example, when moving something “off topic” would it have helped the image of the community team to move the thread off topic with the following phrase,

 

”Hi guys. Thanks for your best wishes to one of our team, and we really appreciate it. But it’s really not gameplay so we’re moving it. All the best, a random mod”

 

There are other ways to do this of course as we have seen.

 

Parting words, then?

vuque #65 Posted 26 March 2018 - 06:52 PM

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View PostLong_Range_Sniper, on 25 March 2018 - 06:21 PM, said:

 

For example, when moving something “off topic” would it have helped the image of the community team to move the thread off topic with the following phrase,

 

”Hi guys. Thanks for your best wishes to one of our team, and we really appreciate it. But it’s really not gameplay so we’re moving it. All the best, a random mod”

 

There are other ways to do this of course as we have seen.

 

Yes and no. There are different aspects of it but I can see your point. Perhaps we can discuss about how we can improve our notification messages at such cases but we need to make it clear, engaging with players is not moderators job.



Long_Range_Sniper #66 Posted 26 March 2018 - 07:21 PM

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View Postvuque, on 26 March 2018 - 05:52 PM, said:

 

Yes and no. There are different aspects of it but I can see your point. Perhaps we can discuss about how we can improve our notification messages at such cases but we need to make it clear, engaging with players is not moderators job.

 

Engaging with players may not be the job of a moderator, but they have a red line along their posts and so the way they moderate does reflect on the whole of Wargaming.

 

Customers and players won't differentiate on job descriptions. When the pilot of a plane is rude to you in the airport you don't think "ah, well his job is to fly the plane", you think "I don't quite like British Airways a bit now".

 

When a moderator does their job well they not only enhance the image of Wargaming, but they also make it easier for the community team to engage with players because they've laid some of the groundwork.

 

Part of doing that job well is the way you moderate, and the way you deliver justice. Think about any interaction you may have had with the police or authority in your country. Do you want them to be zealots from behind a mask, or do you want them to engage with you and at least put on a human face (even as they issue you a speeding ticket).

 

In the EU one of the guiding principles of justice under Human Rights legislation is that an act by authority has to be lawful, proportionate and necessary. If moderators used these three guidelines when considering what to do then it would go a long way to improving their reputation with the community. Because the community see that red border on their messages and if they do it well, your community team get the benefits.

 

You can dispense justice on the forum, AND enhance the reputation of Wargaming, AND make it easier for your community team to engage as well.

 

All without doing anything other than changing the style of moderation, which is still their job.



Anna_Kalashnikova #67 Posted 27 March 2018 - 06:34 AM

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View PostLong_Range_Sniper, on 25 March 2018 - 06:21 PM, said:

 

For example, when moving something “off topic” would it have helped the image of the community team to move the thread off topic with the following phrase,

 

”Hi guys. Thanks for your best wishes to one of our team, and we really appreciate it. But it’s really not gameplay so we’re moving it. All the best, a random mod”

 

There are other ways to do this of course as we have seen.

 

Well let's be honest. We all know, that this topic has absolutely nothing in common with the gameplay topic. Apart from that Jahraseal himself suggested this topic to be moved to off-topic, so it's maybe a bit of a bad example, though i agree with your point.

 

@long_range_snipers last Post: THIS! And this is exactly why kevin was so popular and will be missed.

 

HE IS BACK!!!

 

View PostJahrakajin, on 27 March 2018 - 10:58 AM, said:

 

 

Ich werde wohl noch ein paar Tage hier sein.

 


 

Joggaman #68 Posted 27 March 2018 - 03:49 PM

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View PostAnna_Kalashnikova, on 27 March 2018 - 12:46 PM, said:

HE IS BACK!!!

 

 

 

And this time he is a Dinger!:ohmy:



Jigabachi #69 Posted 27 March 2018 - 03:59 PM

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View PostJoggaman, on 27 March 2018 - 03:49 PM, said:

 

And this time he is a Dinger!:ohmy:

Which means that he'll never be able to get away...

 

one of us one of us one of us one of us one of us one of us

Spoiler

one of us one of us one of us one of us one of us one of us



Long_Range_Sniper #70 Posted 27 March 2018 - 04:49 PM

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View PostJoggaman, on 27 March 2018 - 02:49 PM, said:

 

And this time he is a Dinger!:ohmy:

 

Glad to see you took him into WJDE and not the stat padders in TDU.

rustysprite #71 Posted 27 March 2018 - 05:04 PM

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The Dingers accept all applications from ex-WG employees and expelled Russian diplomats



K_A #72 Posted 27 March 2018 - 07:00 PM

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View Postvuque, on 26 March 2018 - 05:52 PM, said:

 

Yes and no. There are different aspects of it but I can see your point. Perhaps we can discuss about how we can improve our notification messages at such cases but we need to make it clear, engaging with players is not moderators job.

 

Well, even if mods are not meant to engage with players per se, they are meant to moderate and keep control of the forums and forum users, so maybe instead of simply copy/pasting "this thread is unconstructive and will be locked" or "this thread is now moved to off topic", MAYBE if a mod took the 20 seconds to write what makes the topic off topic, or what makes the topic unconstructive, MAYBE people would learn not to do it again, or at least they'd give us some insight as to why some decisions are made, because I'll admit sometimes I've been completely baffled and left with no clue why a particular thread had been tampered with by mods.

Edited by K_A, 27 March 2018 - 07:00 PM.


vuque #73 Posted 27 March 2018 - 07:06 PM

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View PostK_A, on 27 March 2018 - 08:00 PM, said:

 

Well, even if mods are not meant to engage with players per se, they are meant to moderate and keep control of the forums and forum users, so maybe instead of simply copy/pasting "this thread is unconstructive and will be locked" or "this thread is now moved to off topic", MAYBE if a mod took the 20 seconds to write what makes the topic off topic, or what makes the topic unconstructive, MAYBE people would learn not to do it again, or at least they'd give us some insight as to why some decisions are made, because I'll admit sometimes I've been completely baffled and left with no clue why a particular thread had been tampered with by mods.

 

I agree with you. :great:

Joggaman #74 Posted 27 March 2018 - 07:43 PM

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View PostK_A, on 27 March 2018 - 07:00 PM, said:

 

Well, even if mods are not meant to engage with players per se, they are meant to moderate and keep control of the forums and forum users, so maybe instead of simply copy/pasting "this thread is unconstructive and will be locked" or "this thread is now moved to off topic", MAYBE if a mod took the 20 seconds to write what makes the topic off topic, or what makes the topic unconstructive, MAYBE people would learn not to do it again, or at least they'd give us some insight as to why some decisions are made, because I'll admit sometimes I've been completely baffled and left with no clue why a particular thread had been tampered with by mods.

 

View Postvuque, on 27 March 2018 - 07:06 PM, said:

 

I agree with you. :great:

 

and that is the thing which separated Jahrakajin from other mods. He had a way of closing/moderating threads without making people upset about it. And humour. Lots of it. 

Aikl #75 Posted 27 March 2018 - 10:27 PM

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View Postvuque, on 27 March 2018 - 06:06 PM, said:

 

I agree with you. :great:

 

If I understand correctly, the purpose of a moderator is to simply moderate, and not do community staff-related tasks. That begs the question: Is the purpose of the community staff solely to support the community, and not do moderator-related tasks? 

 

It would likely be a good idea to clarify this. The whole structure of the staff and moderators are a bit confusing. Additionally, while I can understand that there might be practical reasons for it, the community interaction likely suffers from different individuals picking up the task after each other. At some point MrConway was replying a lot. Then Ph3lan. Then Kandly. Now you. It's mildly confusing. 

 

Also, while I don't doubt your competence, seeing your stated five years of working for Wargaming, I do suspect that not 'knowing' a community might be a disadvantage - especially when suddenly going for an 'all-out' effort to be as visible as humanly possible.


Edited by Aikl, 27 March 2018 - 11:11 PM.


Karasu_Hidesuke #76 Posted 28 March 2018 - 09:37 AM

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View PostK_A, on 27 March 2018 - 06:00 PM, said:

 

Well, even if mods are not meant to engage with players per se, they are meant to moderate and keep control of the forums and forum users, so maybe instead of simply copy/pasting "this thread is unconstructive and will be locked" or "this thread is now moved to off topic", MAYBE if a mod took the 20 seconds to write what makes the topic off topic, or what makes the topic unconstructive, MAYBE people would learn not to do it again, or at least they'd give us some insight as to why some decisions are made, because I'll admit sometimes I've been completely baffled and left with no clue why a particular thread had been tampered with by mods.

 

And I actually remember that Jahrakajin moved at least one thread back to 'Gameplay' from 'Off topic'. :medal:

Anna_Kalashnikova #77 Posted 29 March 2018 - 06:04 AM

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The seal is only back until the new guy, let's call him Bert for now, is trained. As soon as Bert is ready to rumble our seal will vanish, maybe his ghost will haunt us here from time to time.

uglycousin #78 Posted 29 March 2018 - 11:18 AM

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View PostJahrakajin, on 24 March 2018 - 07:33 PM, said:

... leaving the WG mod team ...

 

 

...

 



vuque #79 Posted 29 March 2018 - 02:27 PM

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View PostAikl, on 27 March 2018 - 11:27 PM, said:

 

If I understand correctly, the purpose of a moderator is to simply moderate, and not do community staff-related tasks. That begs the question: Is the purpose of the community staff solely to support the community, and not do moderator-related tasks? 

 

It would likely be a good idea to clarify this. The whole structure of the staff and moderators are a bit confusing. Additionally, while I can understand that there might be practical reasons for it, the community interaction likely suffers from different individuals picking up the task after each other. At some point MrConway was replying a lot. Then Ph3lan. Then Kandly. Now you. It's mildly confusing. 

 

Also, while I don't doubt your competence, seeing your stated five years of working for Wargaming, I do suspect that not 'knowing' a community might be a disadvantage - especially when suddenly going for an 'all-out' effort to be as visible as humanly possible.

 

Actually you have quite a few good points raised, thanks for that and allow me to explain a bit. :)

As Community Staff we can do moderator related tasks if it is needed due to absence of a moderator or simply if we decide to do so for various reasons. However, generally it is not mandatory for us and we leave moderator related tasks to the moderators. So if you see a Community Staff doing moderator related tasks, that shouldn't be alarming.

 

About different staff members replying in the EN forums, I see your point and agree with you that, this might be confusing. What I can tell right now that; we went through some internal changes which we are working on an announcement about it. Let's say Soon™! :)

 

About not "knowing" a community; if we are speaking about me, I wouldn't say that is the case. I was working with Turkish Community before as I mentioned in another thread and personally I was following EN forums a bit even tough I was not required to. Maybe it is not very good to tell this but if I need to be completely honest here, before I joined Wargaming, I was a bit trollish member of EN forums. However, I do blame my old clan (Pirates) for that, because we were all about trolling and good play! :trollface:



Firefly__xD #80 Posted 29 March 2018 - 02:33 PM

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I didn't read the entire topic but mods change all the time. It doesn't mean there is a crisis. 




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