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How are 430U and 268 v4 balanced?


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Poll: Are 430U and 268 v4 balanced? (292 members have cast votes)

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Are 430U and 268 v4 balanced?

  1. Yes (49 votes [16.78%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 16.78%

  2. No (243 votes [83.22%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 83.22%

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HackoXakepa #1 Posted 27 March 2018 - 08:00 AM

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Morning all,

 

Before I go back to WoWs I have one question and I'll really like to get an answer from Philan or MrConway and all of the community how the **** and who balanced this two tanks?

I know that WG are greedy but please let us know exactly around what was especially 430U balanced? And if you say "gun characteristics and accuracy (btw accuracy in this game is just a random russhan number)" I will post an interesting stat for WG stuff to have a look.

So please share with us your community why this tanks are still not nerfed?

AND YES I don't have nether of both simply because I was able to test them on the test server and they both are like the Super Conqueror. They feel like playing CS with bots, wave after wave of enemies are russhing and you just kill them and since I have the SC already I don't feel the need to have one more of those around.

Facing this absolutely kills my pleasure of this game and I can say that I'm not that bad of a player so I can imagine what is the feel for an average player that facing this "well balanced russhan machines"

 

And one more thing regarding accuracy this is from one popular website and it is a stat for all tier 10 meds accuracy in all servers. HOW THE HELL A TANK WITH BAD GUNS STATS HAVE MORE HITS THAN THE LASER LIKE E50M!?

 

 


Edited by HackoXakepa, 27 March 2018 - 08:04 AM.


HackoXakepa #2 Posted 27 March 2018 - 08:02 AM

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and here is the image

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Edited by HackoXakepa, 27 March 2018 - 08:02 AM.


imendars #3 Posted 27 March 2018 - 08:20 AM

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View PostHackoXakepa, on 27 March 2018 - 10:02 AM, said:

 

 

and here is the image

 

only 0.27% more than BC 25 t, meh. its very good now, true. But this difference needs to be bigger for it to be worth investigating.

Except those annoying bounces and that annoying aggression they have. Object 140 is not that crazy aggressive (i'm a td lower if you cant guess...)



ellua #4 Posted 27 March 2018 - 08:22 AM

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Those power creep machines are "balanced" by marketing team: to force free exp spam and WG profits. $$$ is only form of balance WG knows.

leggasiini #5 Posted 27 March 2018 - 08:34 AM

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Tbh the 430U should just have been classified as a heavy tank, or at least have same MM-class as the (faster) heavy tanks. It would be a bit more balanced if it was matched against things like 113 and 5A instead of other medium tanks which for most part are not even close as bulky as the 430U. 430U matched against a paper support medium is no different from faster heavies being matched against a paper support medium. Changing the MM among with making the cupolas actual weakspots could make it a bit more balanced. UFP armor nerf won't work at all because then it just becomes a (probably still better) clone of the 121.

 

Object 268 V4 is trickier one, though. Like the Type 5 Heavy - not only it's OP but it's minmaxed and broken as well. I guess one way to nerf it would be to make the view port much weaker, nerf the gun handling and nerf the reverse speed, but I don't even know if that is enough. Engine power also could be nerfed, so it doesnt reach the top speed ridiculously easily as it does now.

 



TacticusMK2 #6 Posted 27 March 2018 - 08:41 AM

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What's the distance those shots were made at? 430U's tend to be very close range, so naturally, you can hit more than a sniper even when your gun accuracy is worse.

 

Throwing numbers around without context is worthless. 

 

 



test_2018 #7 Posted 27 March 2018 - 08:42 AM

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View Postleggasiini, on 27 March 2018 - 08:34 AM, said:

Tbh the 430U should just have been classified as a heavy tank, or at least have same MM-class as the (faster) heavy tanks. It would be a bit more balanced if it was matched against things like 113 and 5A instead of other medium tanks which for most part are not even close as bulky as the 430U. 430U matched against a paper support medium is no different from faster heavies being matched against a paper support medium. Changing the MM among with making the cupolas actual weakspots could make it a bit more balanced. UFP armor nerf won't work at all because then it just becomes a (probably still better) clone of the 121.

 

Object 268 V4 is trickier one, though. Like the Type 5 Heavy - not only it's OP but it's minmaxed and broken as well. I guess one way to nerf it would be to make the view port much weaker, nerf the gun handling and nerf the reverse speed, but I don't even know if that is enough. Engine power also could be nerfed, so it doesnt reach the top speed ridiculously easily as it does now.

 

 

 

I



HackoXakepa #8 Posted 27 March 2018 - 08:54 AM

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View PostTacticusMK2, on 27 March 2018 - 08:41 AM, said:

What's the distance those shots were made at? 430U's tend to be very close range, so naturally, you can hit more than a sniper even when your gun accuracy is worse.

 

Throwing numbers around without context is worthless. 

 

 

 

Does it matter? What context do you need?

So I'll give you a context when you arent seeing it. E50M for example have 0.3 accuracy and this that I show is a hit percent so yea as WG say "a good sniper" so the "sniper" has lower hit percent than russhan shotgun. Not to mention that tanks that goes a lot more close like the 62-a and AX are far, far, far behind 430U.Do you need more context?
Tell me than context man, how is the 430U balanced comparing to other meds?


Edited by HackoXakepa, 27 March 2018 - 08:55 AM.


MarcoStrapone #9 Posted 27 March 2018 - 08:57 AM

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2684 is so pathetic move from WG.

HackoXakepa #10 Posted 27 March 2018 - 09:00 AM

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Yes it is really pathetic. And I still wonder will someone from their stuff give an opinion about the question HOW WHERE THIS TWO BALANCED?

TBH I expect someone to say "we are watching them, we need more data" normal WG pathetic excuses.


Edited by HackoXakepa, 27 March 2018 - 09:01 AM.


The_Georgian_One #11 Posted 27 March 2018 - 09:01 AM

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To answer question from the thread title: poorly.

TheWarrener #12 Posted 27 March 2018 - 09:02 AM

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Yes, they are balanced. Poorly balanced :) 

Simeon85 #13 Posted 27 March 2018 - 09:10 AM

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View Postleggasiini, on 27 March 2018 - 08:34 AM, said:

Tbh the 430U should just have been classified as a heavy tank, or at least have same MM-class as the (faster) heavy tanks. It would be a bit more balanced if it was matched against things like 113 and 5A instead of other medium tanks which for most part are not even close as bulky as the 430U. 430U matched against a paper support medium is no different from faster heavies being matched against a paper support medium. Changing the MM among with making the cupolas actual weakspots could make it a bit more balanced. UFP armor nerf won't work at all because then it just becomes a (probably still better) clone of the 121.

 

Object 268 V4 is trickier one, though. Like the Type 5 Heavy - not only it's OP but it's minmaxed and broken as well. I guess one way to nerf it would be to make the view port much weaker, nerf the gun handling and nerf the reverse speed, but I don't even know if that is enough. Engine power also could be nerfed, so it doesnt reach the top speed ridiculously easily as it does now.

 

 

Re-classifying the 430U as a heavy would also reduce it's camo rating right down which IIRC is actually higher than a Bat Chats.

 

Basically the tank has all the best traits of a 113 without any of the weaknesses like the cupolas or low camo rating. 

 

I'd make the 268v4 go max 40kph, reverse speed 12kph, nerf the cupola to 200 effective and make the dispersion values when moving/turning a lot worse, currently they are better than many mediums. 



HackoXakepa #14 Posted 27 March 2018 - 09:16 AM

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View PostThe_Georgian_One, on 27 March 2018 - 09:01 AM, said:

To answer question from the thread title: poorly.

 

You are correct bad question. The more appropriate version will he "Around what are these two balanced?"

leggasiini #15 Posted 27 March 2018 - 09:18 AM

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View PostSimeon85, on 27 March 2018 - 10:10 AM, said:

 

Re-classifying the 430U as a heavy would also reduce it's camo rating right down which IIRC is actually higher than a Bat Chats.

 

 

That as well, I guess. Though, that would probably also mean increased HP pool...and it would be extremely similar to the 113, I guess.

 

When somebody asked SerB ages ago about the 430U in one of the QAs, he IIRC said that if the 430U ever comes to the game, it likely would be classified as a heavy tank. The reason why the 430U project was dropped in the first place IRL was because it effectively has became a literal heavy tank, which is why they didn't bother with it as the T-10 was already further in development. If it progressed further, it very likely would have been reclassified as a heavy tank anyway, so classifying it as one in-game technically wouldn't even be historically inaccurate.

 

View PostSimeon85, on 27 March 2018 - 10:10 AM, said:

I'd make the 268v4 go max 40kph, reverse speed 12kph, nerf the cupola to 200 effective and make the dispersion values when moving/turning a lot worse, currently they are better than many mediums. 

 

One issue with that is that it doesn't make any sense after the high-mobility line before it, makes it stupidly a lot more like an E3 and Badger and would probably make old Object 263 drivers even more pissed. Top speed is what should be kept, IMO; maybe reducing it to 50 would be fine (which is the same as the Object 263 IIRC), but no lower than that. Reverse speed is absolutely idiotic, though. That and engine power is what should be nerfed, not the top speed. 

 

That being said, I'd rather nerf the armor instead of crippling the mobility too much. They could make the very well angled "LFP's LFP" so weak that it becomes overmatchable (like 20 mm thick); in the end, it is a very tiny weakspot anyway and the LFP of the 263 was autopen against literally everything, and that is bigger than what the 268 V4's "LFP's LFP" is. Besides, it would be easily hideable if hulldown. That, and make the cupola an actual weakspot, and that among with reducing the reverse speed and engine power should probably be enough, I guess. 

 

Knowing WGm though, they are just gonna buff everything else to the point 268 V4 needs only a minor nerf, perhaps not even that.


Edited by leggasiini, 27 March 2018 - 09:25 AM.


Dr_Oolen #16 Posted 27 March 2018 - 09:26 AM

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Im pretty sure if 430U was a heavy tank with exactly the same stats majority of people that are now claiming it is OP would actually be claiming its a terrible heavy tank with no armor and HP. Usual WoT player hypocrisy.

 

Sure 430u is better than most t10 mediums, but being better than most mediums still means its worse than most heavies. But somehow it became not only accepted, but also expected, that heavies simply should crapover mediums and have literally 0 downsides for having the armor they have.



Simeon85 #17 Posted 27 March 2018 - 09:27 AM

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View Postleggasiini, on 27 March 2018 - 09:18 AM, said:

 

That as well, I guess. Though, that would probably also mean increased HP pool...and it would be extremely similar to the 113, I guess.

 

When somebody asked SerB ages ago about the 430U in one of the QAs, he IIRC said that if the 430U ever comes to the game, it likely would be classified as a heavy tank. The reason why the 430U project was dropped in the first place IRL was because it effectively has became a literal heavy tank, which is why they didn't bother with it as the T-10 was already further in development. If it progressed further, it very likely would have been reclassified as a heavy tank anyway, so classifying it as one in-game technically wouldn't even be historically inaccurate.

 

 

One issue with that is that it doesn't make any sense after the high-mobility line before it, makes it stupidly a lot more like an E3 and Badger and would probably make old Object 263 drivers even more pissed. Top speed is what should be kept, IMO; maybe reducing it to 50 would be fine (which is the same as the Object 263 IIRC), but no lower than that. Reverse speed is absolutely idiotic, though. That and engine power is what should be nerfed, not the top speed. 

 

That being said, I'd rather nerf the armor instead of crippling the mobility too much. They could make the very well angled "LFP's LFP" so weak that it becomes overmatchable (like 20 mm thick); in the end, it is a very tiny weakspot anyway and the LFP of the 263 was autopen against literally everything, and that is bigger than what the 268 V4's "LFP's LFP" is. Besides, it would be easily hideable if hulldown. That, and make the cupola an actual weakspot, and that among with reducing the reverse speed and engine power should probably be enough, I guess. 

 

Knowing WGm though, they are just gonna buff everything else to the point 268 V4 needs only a minor nerf, perhaps not even that.

 

The other issue being they re-did the line so it made more sense but would then change into a heavy.

 

The whole thing seems unnecessary, you have to ask why we need 4 tier 10 Russian meds anyway, they could have put the 430U as the new tier 10 to follow the T-10.  



test_2018 #18 Posted 27 March 2018 - 09:40 AM

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View PostDr_Oolen, on 27 March 2018 - 09:26 AM, said:

Im pretty sure if 430U was a heavy tank with exactly the same stats majority of people that are now claiming it is OP would actually be claiming its a terrible heavy tank with no armor and HP. Usual WoT player hypocrisy.

 

95% of the time the tank classes are matched against the same class and 100% of the time against their tier.

 

Therefore Obj 430U would be indeed more balanced if it was classed as Heavy tanks, because it would meet always tier 10 heavies (which are stronger than tier 10 mediums in general).

Now when it's matched against for example AMX30 it's indeed OP. 



leggasiini #19 Posted 27 March 2018 - 09:41 AM

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View PostSimeon85, on 27 March 2018 - 10:27 AM, said:

 

The whole thing seems unnecessary, you have to ask why we need 4 tier 10 Russian meds anyway, they could have put the 430U as the new tier 10 to follow the T-10.  

I guess having a rear turreted tier 10 MT after the 430 II definitely makes sense. The issue was that you had a quite unique line of rear-turreted MTs, yet to lead into an uninteresting medium that is pretty similar to the other ones, anyway.

 

They probably should just have made the Object 430 the 3rd tier 10 MT after the T-54, and you have 3 options - 430 being the most brawly one, while the T-62A being the best at longer ranges (represents the gun choices of the T-54), and finally the Object 140 being the most "balanced" one in terms of brawling and sniping capacities. That, or just have replaced the 430 with a rear turreted MT and made it into reward tank; I don't think that many would have even complained, considering how awfully unpopular the 430 was anyway and those few, who liked it, would have kept it.

 

430U would be alright after the T-10, but chronologically it doesn't really make sense, as the T-10 was the very reason why 430U was cancelled. It also has mid-mounted turret and different armor layout (not a pike nose), which would make it kinda incosistent after the T-10. The Object 277/278 fits much more after the T-10 in every aspect than the 430U.

 

430U is just one of those tanks that just weren't...necessary. It should have been left for the far future when we are at a state where WG actually has ran out of tanks to implement. There are quite a few British, Japanese and Swedish tanks still not implemented that would actually be quite unique, but oh well, WG is WG. I guess tanks like 430U pleases Russian playerbase more, and that is the majority, so...



HackoXakepa #20 Posted 27 March 2018 - 10:03 AM

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View Postleggasiini, on 27 March 2018 - 09:41 AM, said:

I guess having a rear turreted tier 10 MT after the 430 II definitely makes sense. The issue was that you had a quite unique line of rear-turreted MTs, yet to lead into an uninteresting medium that is pretty similar to the other ones, anyway.

 

They probably should just have made the Object 430 the 3rd tier 10 MT after the T-54, and you have 3 options - 430 being the most brawly one, while the T-62A being the best at longer ranges (represents the gun choices of the T-54), and finally the Object 140 being the most "balanced" one in terms of brawling and sniping capacities. That, or just have replaced the 430 with a rear turreted MT and made it into reward tank; I don't think that many would have even complained, considering how awfully unpopular the 430 was anyway and those few, who liked it, would have kept it.

 

430U would be alright after the T-10, but chronologically it doesn't really make sense, as the T-10 was the very reason why 430U was cancelled. It also has mid-mounted turret and different armor layout (not a pike nose), which would make it kinda incosistent after the T-10. The Object 277/278 fits much more after the T-10 in every aspect than the 430U.

 

430U is just one of those tanks that just weren't...necessary. It should have been left for the far future when we are at a state where WG actually has ran out of tanks to implement. There are quite a few British, Japanese and Swedish tanks still not implemented that would actually be quite unique, but oh well, WG is WG. I guess tanks like 430U pleases Russian playerbase more, and that is the majority, so...

 

I pray every day for an alternative that all EU and US can go. We are the milk cow not the Russians




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