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Crew bonus for being bottom tier


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besinnungslos #1 Posted 27 March 2018 - 09:59 AM

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What would you guys think about getting a Crew bonus for being bottom tier?

For example get +5% when fighting +2 and +2.5% when fighting +1 tiers.

Diversity would still maintain the same, but being bottom tier doesnt feel as underpowered anymore.

Or could it break bottom tier light tanks by giving them too much view range?



Lord_Edge #2 Posted 27 March 2018 - 10:01 AM

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Don't you get more exp for shooting/killing higher tier tanks as it is?

 



besinnungslos #3 Posted 27 March 2018 - 10:03 AM

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I didnt mean getting more XP. I mean ingame, your crew gets 5% better when playing against higher tiers for example.
So a 110% commander becomes 115%. Similar to using food, you know?

Geno1isme #4 Posted 27 March 2018 - 10:39 AM

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5% would hardly make a difference either way.

TankkiPoju #5 Posted 27 March 2018 - 11:51 AM

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Lower tier tanks already get more XP now when fighting higher tiers, BUT they should also get more credits IMHO.

 



besinnungslos #6 Posted 27 March 2018 - 01:25 PM

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Its not about the XP received after the game! :D
What I meant is that the Crew gets better during the game. Faster reload, better camo, more viewrange, and so on and so forth.
Whether its 5%, 10% or whatever doesnt matter.

Balc0ra #7 Posted 27 March 2018 - 01:31 PM

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View PostBlackPantherKTwo, on 27 March 2018 - 10:03 AM, said:

I didnt mean getting more XP. I mean ingame, your crew gets 5% better when playing against higher tiers for example.
So a 110% commander becomes 115%. Similar to using food, you know?

 

So basically a DPM buff if you will, or more view range. It would help vs those that play with bad crews. Basically making them as good as the enemy top tier med that has recon etc. But considering most are buffed and balanced with fighting +2 in mind. It would make some bully tanks to good. Just imagine the 13 57, or Black bulldog that fires HE on the RU 250 with more ROF as it's a +1 game As the RU more or less has the same gun, but since he gets a buff to his crew, he is out dpm a +1 with the same gun. Or the E25 with a better crew and even faster ROF? Or the Cromwell that now drives better and fires even faster when flanking the Lowe with a broken engine..

 

It will work for some tanks that are underwhelming as is. But for most, you will just make them even more annoying and broken.


Edited by Balc0ra, 27 March 2018 - 01:32 PM.


SuperDuperOtter #8 Posted 27 March 2018 - 01:41 PM

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The struggles of Tier n tanks against Tier n+2 tanks is that Tier n+2 have ~80% more HP. Are harder to pen while they can pen Tier n tanks with no efforts. And to some degree, bigger Alpha damage.

 

Crews related stats are negligeable against these big factors.

 

Now that's said, why not. It wouldn't hurt, doesn't it ?



Geno1isme #9 Posted 27 March 2018 - 01:56 PM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 27 March 2018 - 02:31 PM, said:

So basically a DPM buff if you will, or more view range. It would help vs those that play with bad crews. Basically making them as good as the enemy top tier med that has recon etc. But considering most are buffed and balanced with fighting +2 in mind. It would make some bully tanks to good. Just imagine the 13 57, or Black bulldog that fires HE on the RU 250 with more ROF as it's a +1 game As the RU more or less has the same gun, but since he gets a buff to his crew, he is out dpm a +1 with the same gun. Or the E25 with a better crew and even faster ROF? Or the Cromwell that now drives better and fires even faster when flanking the Lowe with a broken engine..

 

That's exaggerating massively. A 10% bonus to crew skills translates to less than 5% increase in actual DPM/viewrange/..., so a 5% increase would be barely noticable at all (it's literally the same as with/without vents). Also doesn't improve hard stats (pen, alpha, HP, armor, ...) at all. So overall it's not really gonna make a difference either way.

 

(side note: Blackdog already has more DPM than the Ru even without this)


Edited by Geno1isme, 27 March 2018 - 01:58 PM.


besinnungslos #10 Posted 27 March 2018 - 02:03 PM

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View PostGeno1isme, on 27 March 2018 - 12:56 PM, said:

 

That's exaggerating massively. A 10% bonus to crew skills translates to less than 5% increase in actual DPM/viewrange/..., so a 5% increase would be barely noticable at all (it's literally the same as with/without vents). Also doesn't improve hard stats (pen, alpha, HP, armor, ...) at all. So overall it's not really gonna make a difference either way.

 

(side note: Blackdog already has more DPM than the Ru even without this)

The numbers are obviously not fixed. Can ofc also be higher/lower. But being bottom tier is about supporting the top tier, so I'd say DPM is very imprtant for them.

The Blackdog having such a high DPM is a problem of those tanks tho, isn't it?



BlackYeti #11 Posted 27 March 2018 - 02:08 PM

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Or you know, maybe just make the power gap between tiers less pronounced?

besinnungslos #12 Posted 27 March 2018 - 02:28 PM

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View PostBlackYeti, on 27 March 2018 - 01:08 PM, said:

Or you know, maybe just make the power gap between tiers less pronounced?

Well yeah, thats what seems to be the problem, but changing 400 tanks might take some time..

 ;)



Geno1isme #13 Posted 27 March 2018 - 02:47 PM

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View PostBlackPantherKTwo, on 27 March 2018 - 03:03 PM, said:

The Blackdog having such a high DPM is a problem of those tanks tho, isn't it?

 

Blackdog is a special case (similar to AMX 13 57 and Type 64) as it still has the old scout balancing from before 9.18, and WG doesn't nerf premium tanks.

 

View PostBlackPantherKTwo, on 27 March 2018 - 03:03 PM, said:

The numbers are obviously not fixed. Can ofc also be higher/lower. But being bottom tier is about supporting the top tier, so I'd say DPM is very imprtant for them.

 

I'd say DPM is actually one of the least important aspects when being bottom-tier. What's the point of high DPM when you can't reliably hit+pen the enemy, and when trading shots you'll loose due to inferior armor, HP and alpha damage? You know, the KV-5 as the prime example of a tank being rendered almost useless by the MM changes already has very good DPM, yet it's way worse than most other T8 premium tanks when being bottom tier.

 

The problem with your idea is that a minor improvement is hardly noticable, but a major improvement (say 20%+) will make certain tanks pretty broken, as then for example bottom-tier lights will get insane viewrange, camo and mobility buffs, and other tanks that are already pretty strong even as bottom tier (e.g. T28, UDES, Skorpion) become even stronger.

 

But those tanks that suffer the most from being low-tier don't really benefit much. A T32, Tiger 2 or KV-4 still get raped by higher-tier tanks as their armor is next to useless and their guns just can't compete with T10 tank armor, even if you increase DPM and gun-handling by 50% (which would be obscene). And lets not even talk about SMM tanks.


Edited by Geno1isme, 27 March 2018 - 02:51 PM.


dimethylcadmium #14 Posted 27 March 2018 - 03:10 PM

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View PostLord_Edge, on 27 March 2018 - 10:01 AM, said:

Don't you get more exp for shooting/killing higher tier tanks as it is?

 

 

It's not enough. Only noticeable when you have a 3k+ damage carry with a tier 8 tank in a tier 10 game. If you do 1k damage and get ammo racked by a JGPZE100 you'll still get garbage XP, even if you dealt that 1k damage to the JGPZE100.

Tidal_Force #15 Posted 29 March 2018 - 06:36 AM

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View PostBlackYeti, on 27 March 2018 - 01:08 PM, said:

Or you know, maybe just make the power gap between tiers less pronounced?

 

How, then, would WG be able to frustrate players into paying up?

Edited by Tidal_Force, 29 March 2018 - 07:04 PM.


TungstenHitman #16 Posted 29 March 2018 - 09:12 AM

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View PostBlackPantherKTwo, on 27 March 2018 - 12:25 PM, said:

Its not about the XP received after the game! :D
What I meant is that the Crew gets better during the game. Faster reload, better camo, more viewrange, and so on and so forth.
Whether its 5%, 10% or whatever doesnt matter.

 

Nah, all that would serve to do is remove the point of taking on the next tier tank as there would be little gained in doing so and cost more credits to run. What you are suggesting is some sort of leveling system that would result in 3 tiers being much closer in terms of their ability but apart from the reason I just gave, it also wouldn't translate into what you might think would happen. A "one for all" boost of 5-10% across all classes would make some already border line OP tanks, just flat out broken.

 

There are tanks when -2 tier in battles that already have some sort of attribute that makes them superior to even a +2 tier tank from another class, this can be view range, this can be camo , this can be dpm. So adding a further 5-10% of view range AND camo AND dpm... they would be OP as fok at -2 tiers and the game would be so much worse plus like I said, it would give rise to a "right, no point wasting my credits playing tier10 then!" and so they would play tier8 then at tier8 they discover the tier6 is almost as good and so they drop down to tier6 which discover the tier4 is almost as good so we all end up playing bottom tiers lol! What an absolute baptism of fire that would be for new players that would be but it would never reach that stage because your suggestion will never happen for that very reason. The whole concept of playing the next tier is to get a better tank or it leads to a much better tank at some point, and in climbing this "better tank" ladder you also fall into the WG business end of things as it filters out those that won't pay money and don't have the genuine interest to invest the time which are more likely candidates to pay money and in exchange to this filtering system, they are left with paying customers and the paying customers get tanks that are notably better than those of lesser tiers which is the reward for bothering with the grind.






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