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Why WOT is toxic, F2P experiment


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_Anarchistic_ #1 Posted 27 March 2018 - 03:22 PM

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so been getting bored, for me 1.0 not done anything good except remove swamp and highway and with the current credit bonuses thought a new account might be fun

 

so I am playing as F2PEXP, a free to play account and at first it was just a blast, tier 1s toodling around having fun but quickly a few issues began to crop up over and over

 

1-  so many players with 50k, 60k in some cases over 100k games all at low tiers in premium tanks spamming gold and then after game going 'look at my wr%'.  add to that some of the premiums are utterly broken I can understand how quickly players could get bored and move on.  seeing players with 90% wr in B2 740s having played 19k games in them, and spamming full gold and then bragging after game, yep toxic

 

2- maps, only Abbey, himmelsdorf, mines, I mean come on, boring or what and not great maps any of them.  When I first played I got Malinovka, Provence, great maps for beginners to learn to play the game and great maps for any tank, I loved my panzerjaegar 2, cruiser 2 but on these maps they don't really get a good game and you have no chance to learn how to play, how to move around the map.  Its just get a machine gun tank and spray like crazy.

 

3.  arty, wow at low tiers it is brutal, what a put off to the game

 

4.  The grind, I had forgotten how bruising stock tanks are.  combine a stock tank with bad crew and new player it is no fun at all for them and then combine with.....

 

5.  MM  so tiers 1/2/3 generally fine, with the exception of point 1 issues, but tier 4?  wow, straight into +2mm, in a stock tank with a 80% crew at best?  and the new MM of 3/5/7, so far I have had all tier 6 mm except for 2 games

 

The good bits

 

1- loads of help early on, the new tutorial a vast improvement over what I had to start the game

 

2-  tiers 1/2/3 much better MM, almost every game there same tier

 

3-  loads of mini missions and promotions helping you get started, credits earners and free premium tanks, so early game F2P easy and fun

 

 

potential solutions

 

1-  stop players seal clubbing newbies, and especially in OP premium tanks.  it must be possible to protect players better.  I accept rerolls will get thru but for a new player getting messaged after being gold spammed by an 80k player it must be a huge put off

 

2-  please get better maps for beginners, with real map guidelines on where to go.  province was great, so is malinovka, abbey is my most hated map in game, not got a single redeeming feature for me, mines and himmelsdorf ok.  also only 3 maps?  boring and repetitive

 

3- arty, yeah well nuff said we all know arty not good for game

 

4-again can there be any protection for tier 4 stock tanks with 80% or worse crews?  give players a chance

 

5- MM, this I find more problematic, but would probably be resolved in line with 4, a bit of protection until you no longer stock or have a 100% crew

 

 

anyway, that's my thoughts

 



Schepel #2 Posted 27 March 2018 - 03:27 PM

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There is a newbie protection feature, IIRC.

 

Otherwise, you are completely right. The early game is brutal. A PVE mode would, I think, be a great thing to have for new players.



_Anarchistic_ #3 Posted 27 March 2018 - 03:32 PM

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View PostSchepel, on 27 March 2018 - 03:27 PM, said:

There is a newbie protection feature, IIRC.

 

Otherwise, you are completely right. The early game is brutal. A PVE mode would, I think, be a great thing to have for new players.

 

​if there is protection how am I with 43 games up against players with 100k games?

 



Homer_J #4 Posted 27 March 2018 - 03:43 PM

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View Post_Anarchistic_, on 27 March 2018 - 03:32 PM, said:

 

​if there is protection how am I with 43 games up against players with 100k games?

 

 

Have you researched a tier 4?

 

If you have then it does not class you as a newbie any more.

 

If not then maybe there just aren't enough rerolls newbies to match you against.



_Anarchistic_ #5 Posted 27 March 2018 - 03:46 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 27 March 2018 - 03:43 PM, said:

 

Have you researched a tier 4?

 

If you have then it does not class you as a newbie any more.

 

If not then maybe there just aren't enough rerolls newbies to match you against.

 

yep, got tier 4, but 94 games played?? harsh if that's no longer new, further that's the first tier when you get +2mm, so I repeat my point about 80%crew, stock tank

 

in my case I cannot complain, and they have my ISP so they can easily spot a reroll

 

a reset account again can have no complaints


Edited by _Anarchistic_, 27 March 2018 - 03:47 PM.


250swb #6 Posted 27 March 2018 - 04:24 PM

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View Post_Anarchistic_, on 27 March 2018 - 02:46 PM, said:

 

yep, got tier 4, but 94 games played?? harsh if that's no longer new, 

 

It's to guard true newbies against re-rollers who know full well the fastest and most efficient route up the tech trees. Just think, you could have had 1000 battles in a cocoon of seal clubbing bliss earning all those credits. What was that, you think you might start again? :teethhappy:



lord_chipmonk #7 Posted 27 March 2018 - 04:34 PM

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View Post_Anarchistic_, on 27 March 2018 - 03:32 PM, said:

 

​if there is protection how am I with 43 games up against players with 100k games?

 

 

It reduces the chances of new players being in the same games as more experienced players, but the MM can only work with the players given to it. I have tested with a new account and it does make a fairly significant difference. 

NUKLEAR_SLUG #8 Posted 27 March 2018 - 05:07 PM

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View Post_Anarchistic_, on 27 March 2018 - 03:22 PM, said:

 

1-  so many players with 50k, 60k in some cases over 100k games all at low tiers in premium tanks spamming gold and then after game going 'look at my wr%'.  add to that some of the premiums are utterly broken I can understand how quickly players could get bored and move on.  seeing players with 90% wr in B2 740s having played 19k games in them, and spamming full gold and then bragging after game, yep toxic

 

So? Noone takes them seriously if they've only got that 70% WR by spamming 2k games in M2 Lights. If they tried to lord it on the forums they'd be laughed out town. No serious clan looking for good players is going to be interested in someone statpadding at tier2.

Simeon85 #9 Posted 27 March 2018 - 05:18 PM

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Yeh lower tiers is completely brutal to newbies, I have always thought WG should offer some sort of 'bought' tier 5 package that let's you start there with fully upgraded tanks and 100% crew plus some credits to buy equipment as the chaos of 1-3 doesn't teach you much about the game, nor does being bottom tier all the time in stock tier 4s.

 

Also like the suggestion above about PvE with lower XP/credit earnings as a good place to grind stock crews and tanks. 



zero_fox_given #10 Posted 27 March 2018 - 05:22 PM

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i also started new acc just to learn new maps and try the lines i was lazy grind.

like the OP said, the amount of goldnoobs in low tiers is just stunning. i had like 15-20% of gold which was fired at me

 

before starting the very first game i made some arrangements like i will never use a mods like xvm and i try to ignore my winrate as primary objective, just to see how the things are going

i turned off the chat. im losing some of the interaction but for my short fure i can see one "lost" in the start and i get 1 hour ban for teamkill, so i do myself and the community a favor

 

im completely focused on campaign missions. i chose 5 lines to progress and i will just keep tier6 versions for some specific missions on 260 batch

 

i didnt spend a penny on the game. i got some 500g in the start and i believe there might be some in the missions so that could cover my gold cost of demounting of equipment

 

all in all, im having fun which i didnt have on my original account and progressing trough the lines without crews is just painfull. maybe thats why i have all arty missions from first batch already done but i refuse to play light tanks...



LordMuffin #11 Posted 27 March 2018 - 05:34 PM

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Currently when I have visited T1-T4 to unlock new lines (I save free xp for other stuff), it has always been very very brutal and harsh. Only at T5 do the game become kinder imo.


I have a feeling that the low tiers where kinder when I started.

Rati_Festa #12 Posted 27 March 2018 - 06:15 PM

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Nice post Op you point out a number of good points. Some of them a relevant at higher tiers, stock tanks and the experience playing them now has changed a lot since I first started playing. The % of stat padders/exp players loitering in low to mid tiers must surely be hindering the recruitment of new players.

I dropped into t3 to play that freebie tank at the weekend ( i rarely play below 7 ) and the game is completely different and stuffed with seal clubbers. I played 3 games and had had enough.

Edited by Rati_Festa, 27 March 2018 - 06:16 PM.


German_Dunc #13 Posted 27 March 2018 - 06:44 PM

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Agree broadly with all of the OP.

 

However, I'd say Tier IV is where you hit the real seal clubbing problems. Sometimes during our platoon sessions we'll dip down to Tier V PMM premiums for a laugh, let off steam, and have an entirely random game experience.

 

Never ceases to amaze me the amount of ELC and T67s with 8k games in that tank at >65% WR that we see. Usually we'll make it our game mission to hunt down the clubbers and trash their padding plans.

 

Clubbing is fun for a couple of games, but the novelty wears off pretty quickly. I really question the personality required to rack up seven thousand games in an ELC. Fortunately, I can escape back up the tiers, but I can see why beginners would think 'sod this' and pack the game in.

 

 



Slyspy #14 Posted 27 March 2018 - 06:53 PM

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View PostLordMuffin, on 27 March 2018 - 05:34 PM, said:

Currently when I have visited T1-T4 to unlock new lines (I save free xp for other stuff), it has always been very very brutal and harsh. Only at T5 do the game become kinder imo.


I have a feeling that the low tiers where kinder when I started.

 

They weren't when I started. I suspect that we just didn't notice.

Aikl #15 Posted 27 March 2018 - 07:04 PM

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View PostLordMuffin, on 27 March 2018 - 04:34 PM, said:

(...)
I have a feeling that the low tiers where kinder when I started.

 

Kind of, I guess. Back in 2011, you got just about no help starting out. No free sixth-sense crew, no fancy tutorial, no useful missions. 50% crew and 'glhf', basically. No lack of sealclubbers back in the day, either, especially T1 had some really 'interesting' balancing choices allowing it. Thing is, 'tanks go boom' seem to be more than fun enough for the first hundred games or so. Heck, even playing the Battlefield series I thought 'tanks go boom' was a heck of a lot of fun. If I have fun, I don't mind the game being 'messed up.

 

Today, T1 is probably far better. 100% crew is enough to be relatively competitive even against veteran clubbers, and the tanks are more balanced (and kinda boring). Of course, you largely get to skip through to T3 (?) via the tutorial, for some reason. That never made much sense to me.

 

The problems arrive when you start seeing higher-tier tanks. Lower tiers are chock-full of tanks that are way out of balance for no apparent reason. Heck, at some point you get a Pz. B2 to try out for free for a few days.

Even with a crappy 50% crew, the logic conveyed is obvious: Premium is better. That's what you'll get reminded of when you get your rear door kicked in by a premium tank. With the popularity of premium tanks, that's bound to happen several times. Every time you'll get reminded of the feeling of how the Pz. B2 worked so well. All the way up to glorious T10.

 

Anyway, some Q&A a while ago hinted towards them being very well aware of the lower-tier issues. When they state that someone playing WoT for X amount of time (a few weeks IIRC) will basically stay forever, that obviously means a minority of players.

At this point, the point of lower tiers seem to be reflected well in why the Pz. B2 is sold. It's claimed to be for "tank collectors", i.e. veteran 'play4fun' players who want some way of feeling good after failing game after game in their HE-spamming, field-rushing Maus. That's likely why certain 'sealclubber's choice' tanks are not commonly nerfed, despite being the least problematic tanks to rebalance. They're not bought with cash, nor are they the result of age-long grinds.

 

On a related note, the arguably harsh matchmaking for <T8 tanks would likely be way easier to stomach if they got some 'non-hard' buffs. There are some ideas that seem rather obvious, but for some reason aren't considered. T8's totally out of whack when you compare mediums to heavies, for instance. The HP differences between T4-5 and T6-7 are too darn high. Gun handling of T5/6-8 is problematic too. A T6 tank can get two-shot by a T8, have issues penetrating the darn things and have to sit still for several seconds to aim. Blergh. No darn wonder I don't play much even at T6 anymore; Panther/M10 (and E25) being two of the few tanks I can stomach at T7.


Edited by Aikl, 27 March 2018 - 07:06 PM.


Bordhaw #16 Posted 27 March 2018 - 07:47 PM

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German_Dunc #17 Posted 27 March 2018 - 08:05 PM

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Tier VI is one of the worst tiers at the moment, Aikl 

 

You're either fodder for VIII players suddenly presented with their first top tier game in weeks, or you're desperately trying to deal with lunatics charging about in IV spamming pew-pew in every direction. 

 

VII is probably the nicest - you can cope with VIIIs, don't see a lot of IXs, and sometimes get to bully Vs. Plus, VII is probably the most balanced of all the tiers - nothing is particularly OP with the exception of rarities like the 13 57.



HassenderZerhacker #18 Posted 27 March 2018 - 08:11 PM

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my daughter started a new account, and as I helped her setting up her tank I missed this part:

View Post_Anarchistic_, on 27 March 2018 - 03:22 PM, said:

3-  loads of mini missions and promotions helping you get started, credits earners and free premium tanks, so early game F2P easy and fun

she was given a pz 38t, a commander with sixth sense and a toolbox and that's it.

 

where are these mini missions and free premium tanks?



Pansenmann #19 Posted 27 March 2018 - 09:19 PM

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View PostLordMuffin, on 27 March 2018 - 05:34 PM, said:

Currently when I have visited T1-T4 to unlock new lines (I save free xp for other stuff), it has always been very very brutal and harsh. Only at T5 do the game become kinder imo.


I have a feeling that the low tiers where kinder when I started.

 

nope.

 

I still remember whell getting slaugthered for hundreds of games on province :arta:


Edited by Pansenmann, 27 March 2018 - 09:19 PM.


LordMuffin #20 Posted 27 March 2018 - 09:45 PM

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View PostPansenmann, on 27 March 2018 - 09:19 PM, said:

 

nope.

 

I still remember whell getting slaugthered for hundreds of games on province :arta:

After 1 game i found out camping was best, after a few more I found out which bushes worked.






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