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When are the tier 10 lights going to get the buffs they clearly need?


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Somnorila #61 Posted 03 April 2018 - 12:47 PM

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View PostWindSplitter1, on 29 March 2018 - 08:53 PM, said:

I remember the battles where early spotting was a necessary thing and not just for SPGs. Because if you had a good scout and the enemy didn't, they'd be toasted. Today, it's still like that, but the difference in that regard is more forgiving.

 

 

More forgiving... That's an understatement because SPG's are gimped so they can barely scratch the early spots, that if they can hit them through the cover. Which leads to the real issue, no other allied "sniper" can take shots on any of the early spots as there is no line of fire. Like ever. The maps are made like that. I remember the times when a good scout would mean the difference between a win or a loss. When you would go from bush to bush until you would light half of the enemy team and they would fall in like 2 minutes. Now that role is obsolete as encounters are at close range sidescraping or whatever and on the few maps where you can actually spot enemies before getting in those brawling position no ally can get shots on them. The Light tanks are mostly gimped MT's that can play only as support for additional damage and hp sharing but fast enough to change location to to add some support where is needed. As a matter of fact, that's what arties used to mean before making them useless because of the same map changes and thus are unable to help struggling allies with firepower cover because their dpm and alpha is seriously weak and or they can't get line of fires where the battle is unfolding. 



WindSplitter1 #62 Posted 03 April 2018 - 08:19 PM

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View PostSomnorila, on 03 April 2018 - 11:47 AM, said:

 

More forgiving... That's an understatement because SPG's are gimped so they can barely scratch the early spots, that if they can hit them through the cover. Which leads to the real issue, no other allied "sniper" can take shots on any of the early spots as there is no line of fire. Like ever. The maps are made like that. I remember the times when a good scout would mean the difference between a win or a loss. When you would go from bush to bush until you would light half of the enemy team and they would fall in like 2 minutes. Now that role is obsolete as encounters are at close range sidescraping or whatever and on the few maps where you can actually spot enemies before getting in those brawling position no ally can get shots on them. The Light tanks are mostly gimped MT's that can play only as support for additional damage and hp sharing but fast enough to change location to to add some support where is needed. As a matter of fact, that's what arties used to mean before making them useless because of the same map changes and thus are unable to help struggling allies with firepower cover because their dpm and alpha is seriously weak and or they can't get line of fires where the battle is unfolding. 

 

Well, this post perfectly summarize the current standing of the game. "Heavies tanks or gt*o".

veso_vn #63 Posted 03 April 2018 - 08:38 PM

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Or just nerf all others tanks view range ? 

HundeWurst #64 Posted 03 April 2018 - 09:00 PM

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View Postveso_vn, on 03 April 2018 - 08:38 PM, said:

Or just nerf all others tanks view range ? 

 

Viewrange is a weird stat anyway. In a way it is scaling with the tiers, in another its not. The values are all over the place and there is no clear reason why certain tanks have certain viewranges.

 

To be honest all view ranges should get reworked and changed. It should not scale with the tier but should be pretty much the same values for all tiers: Lights highest, followed by mediums, heavies, TDs and finally arty.


Edited by WunderWurst, 04 April 2018 - 11:40 AM.


leggasiini #65 Posted 03 April 2018 - 09:02 PM

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B-but Murazor needs tanks that are utter cannonfodders for his precious, overarmored balance-machines, so no, LT buffs will never happen

Edited by leggasiini, 03 April 2018 - 09:02 PM.


Strizi #66 Posted 04 April 2018 - 04:52 AM

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View PostWunderWurst, on 03 April 2018 - 09:00 PM, said:

 

Viewrange is a weird stat anyway. In a way it is scaling with the tiers, in another its not. The values are all over the place and there is no clear reason why certain tanks have certain viewranges.

 

To be honest all view ranges should reworked and changed. It should not scale with the tier but should be pretty much the same values for all tiers: Lights highest, followed by mediums, heavies, TDs and finally arty.

 

They could easily nerf viewrange of tds across the board and nerf some heavies and mediums too. Why do russian meds get 400m and the tall e50m not 410 for example. As you say the viewranges are weird. In my opinion the viewranges of lights are fine but for other classes they could make it like these examples: Russian meds = good camo and low profile = bad viewrange (should be 380 or 390 and not 400), E50M = bad camo but tall = stay at 400 or buff to 410. Whats annoying me the most in light tanks are invisible tds that cant be outspotted (Hello Sweden), they could really smash the viewrange of certain t8-10 tds for a positive game balance.

fwhaatpiraat #67 Posted 04 April 2018 - 05:59 AM

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View Postbrumbarr, on 29 March 2018 - 05:36 PM, said:

 

Solution could be to nerf all the tanks that have been added or buffed in the last 4-5 years :p

Power creep has been around for a long time. 

Nothing will change in the foreseeable future, though.



spuriousmonkey #68 Posted 04 April 2018 - 07:29 AM

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I think we could start with giving the lights an extra role to play on the battlefield. That of a mobile harasser and executioner.

 

They still have the horrible pen, accuracy, HP pool etc, but we significantly buff the DPM of the tier 10 lights.

 

But we can't have a light out-DPM a med or a heavy!!!

 

Why not. If a light tank manages to catch a heavy or medium tank alone and has the ability to out-maneuver them and manages to hit the flanks and sides of a heavy/medium tank, they should be able to out DPM them. It's the reward. How this tank can be balanced. You take a risk, you get a reward. You don't have the pen, the HP pool of your opponent, but you have something else: maneuverability and DPM.

Rock, paper scissors.

 

But then lights will snipe from the back? Maybe, but it will not be very effective with horrible penetration at distance against all that armored stuff out on the battlefield.

 

As it is now, most people only think that lights have a viable role as suicide scout at the start of the game. Now, the light tank will have at least two viable roles.



Lord_Edge #69 Posted 04 April 2018 - 08:31 AM

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Meh, adding tier 10 LTs was a mistake anyway, they're still OP.

Excavatus #70 Posted 04 April 2018 - 08:39 AM

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The fat ugly american was my first and only tier X tank in this game.

400 alpha looked sooooo good when I saw it in game.

 

But I dont know, the tank was not working.

Too big.. even a mean look can pen you for half of your HP

Derp gun is just for fun, for the AP shooter, pen drop was enormous.

You cant go close because there are no places to hide that big fat [edited]from tier 10 meds.

you cant snipe back.. cause.. you are an LT for gods sakes..

I was just driving like a maniac and trying to cause chaos on the map and taking opportunity shots when I found them.

 

But with t49.. my story is totally different.

I know my WR especially is low for T49.. but that is not the tank.. that is the driver.

I know what that tank can do or cannot.. and I know I feel very capable in it. Just cant do it always

But If you ask me, T49 can carry more than its weight.. much much more..

but his fat brother? not so much.. at least for me..

 

Sold it.. not regret it!



Signal11th #71 Posted 04 April 2018 - 09:20 AM

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Personally I felt initially is that tier 9/10 lights were just not needed anyway but since they have been introduced then they should have dropped the view ranges of all tanks by 15% and left the view range on the lights as is. Stops the tier 9/10 lights being out spotted by certain tier 9/10 medium tanks and gives them an actual role instead of being the mini mediums they now are. 

Edited by signal11th, 04 April 2018 - 09:20 AM.


The_Georgian_One #72 Posted 04 April 2018 - 10:01 AM

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View PostExcavatus, on 04 April 2018 - 08:39 AM, said:

The fat ugly american was my first and only tier X tank in this game.

400 alpha looked sooooo good when I saw it in game.

 

But I dont know, the tank was not working.

Too big.. even a mean look can pen you for half of your HP

Derp gun is just for fun, for the AP shooter, pen drop was enormous.

You cant go close because there are no places to hide that big fat [edited]from tier 10 meds.

you cant snipe back.. cause.. you are an LT for gods sakes..

I was just driving like a maniac and trying to cause chaos on the map and taking opportunity shots when I found them.

 

But with t49.. my story is totally different.

I know my WR especially is low for T49.. but that is not the tank.. that is the driver.

I know what that tank can do or cannot.. and I know I feel very capable in it. Just cant do it always

But If you ask me, T49 can carry more than its weight.. much much more..

but his fat brother? not so much.. at least for me..

 

Sold it.. not regret it!

 

There's a reason why you don't see Sheridans in battles and T49s are met rather frequently.

spuriousmonkey #73 Posted 04 April 2018 - 10:09 AM

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I got a sheridan recently and thought I would like it. But I struggle in it.

 

I do better in the wz-132-1. It has "extra HP" because occasionally it bounces something on the turret.

 

Still, tier 10 lights are horrible in the current meta.



shane73tank #74 Posted 04 April 2018 - 10:11 AM

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View Postsignal11th, on 04 April 2018 - 08:20 AM, said:

Personally I felt initially is that tier 9/10 lights were just not needed anyway but since they have been introduced then they should have dropped the view ranges of all tanks by 15% and left the view range on the lights as is. Stops the tier 9/10 lights being out spotted by certain tier 9/10 medium tanks and gives them an actual role instead of being the mini mediums they now are. 

This vr argument has been  put forward so many times , funny thing is with the other adjustments re pen drop off etc it was like wg just forgot this one final adjustment.  It would be nice if they came back to this but I fear not , who knows perhaps when 2.0 comes out in 8 years time they will get around to it



Hamsterkicker #75 Posted 04 April 2018 - 10:25 AM

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To me the change from capable and fun to utter garbage for lights happens between tier 8 and 9.

 

For example, I love the chinese lights like the 59-16, wz-131, type 64, type 62 but then the wz-132 already becomes harder to play but still good, but then I unlocked the WZ-132A. Man this is a nightmare. It just did not work at all and I ragesold it, whilst still 140k XP short of the WZ-132-1. It is also unbelievable why you need such a high amount of XP to unlock the Tier X light from a Tier IX light.. 240 K XP to 280 K XP that is almost 100K more than for your average med...

 

Same for ruskies, I love the MT25 and  LTTB.. Still not sure about the T54 LightWeight though.

 

Germans same story, upto tier 8 good and somewhat, although why did they have to take away the 3-shot autoloader from the SP 1C and the derp from the VK 28.01... that was so much more fun.

 

T71 is brilliant, T49 american tank is just hilarious.. KV2 on steroids...

 

French are decent but I still prefer the AMX 30 over the AMX 13 90 at the moment.

 

 

 

 



Danger__UXB #76 Posted 04 April 2018 - 11:02 AM

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I think with the tier 10 lights most of the time it is not the tank but the driver?..

 

Many a time i see them played as 'Fast meds' and this is their downfall as they dont have the armour you might need to play them that way ie I see

players try to take key map positions but fail badly.

 

 

I cant understand why players play the tanks to the weaknesses of the tanks and not its strengths? ie if you have pen drop at distance why try to snipe

from over 200m?

 

If you have no armour why try to play 'Bully' tank?

 

If you have no HP why try to trade?

 

If you have poor V/R why try to outspot the oponents in the LOS game?

 

.....Why try to play aggressive when its only a very few highly skilled players that can use lights that way anyway? (Me not included)...i see this all the time.

 

 

For anyone that played lights in the old +3 MM and learned all the tips and tricks of the trade there being top tier is a godsend.:medal:

 

 

If you are one of the guys that went from high tier meds straight to high tier lights you will struggle.

 

Stop playing them like Meds guys and you will be fine:bush:

 

 

 

 



brumbarr #77 Posted 04 April 2018 - 11:18 AM

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View PostDanger_UXB_, on 04 April 2018 - 11:02 AM, said:

I think with the tier 10 lights most of the time it is not the tank but the driver?..

 

Many a time i see them played as 'Fast meds' and this is their downfall as they dont have the armour you might need to play them that way ie I see

players try to take key map positions but fail badly.

 

 

I cant understand why players play the tanks to the weaknesses of the tanks and not its strengths? ie if you have pen drop at distance why try to snipe

from over 200m?

 

If you have no armour why try to play 'Bully' tank?

 

If you have no HP why try to trade?

 

If you have poor V/R why try to outspot the oponents in the LOS game?

 

.....Why try to play aggressive when its only a very few highly skilled players that can use lights that way anyway? (Me not included)...i see this all the time.

 

You realise that when you dont do all those things you are basicly doing nothing right? You just showed why they are UP. They cant do any of those things, and there is nothing else left to do,they are a deadweight to their team.



Danger__UXB #78 Posted 04 April 2018 - 11:35 AM

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View Postbrumbarr, on 04 April 2018 - 10:18 AM, said:

You realise that when you dont do all those things you are basicly doing nothing right? You just showed why they are UP. They cant do any of those things, and there is nothing else left to do,they are a deadweight to their team.

 

To call them a dead weight is a bit unfair tbh....If thats the case then you would say the old MM lights (+3) were a deadweight too? (Ive lost count of the players that say ''A good scoutis invaluable to the team;)....So are they??...If they are played right then Yes!!..Wrong then NO!!

 

After playing in the old mm where you were -3 lets see what has got better now we have tier 9 and 10?

 

  • Better armour
  • More HP
  • Better pen
  • Faster reloads etc..

 

 

...But what have we lost?

 

  • Pen drop over distance

 

..Thats the only difference i can see.

 

 

Am i wrong or do the pro,s outweigh the con,s

 

 

Im not trying to be contravercial its just that i see lights played as meds so thats the point

 

Yes the tier 10,s seem to be worse than the tier 9 in most cases but that does not make them useless in my eyes...its just the way they are played most of the time as certain players are not sure how to use them ie; What i listed in my earlier post.


Edited by Danger_UXB_, 04 April 2018 - 11:37 AM.


Jigabachi #79 Posted 04 April 2018 - 11:48 AM

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View PostLord_Edge, on 04 April 2018 - 08:31 AM, said:

Meh, adding tier 10 LTs was a mistake anyway, they're still OP.

Feel free to elaborate that and also explain to us what "OP means.

Given the fact that you have a very bad performance in all your higher tier tanks, couldn't it be that you are just too bad, so that you simply get outplayed by them?

Just a thought...


Edited by Jigabachi, 04 April 2018 - 11:51 AM.


Simeon85 #80 Posted 04 April 2018 - 12:51 PM

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View PostDanger_UXB_, on 04 April 2018 - 11:02 AM, said:

I think with the tier 10 lights most of the time it is not the tank but the driver?..

 

Many a time i see them played as 'Fast meds' and this is their downfall as they dont have the armour you might need to play them that way ie I see

players try to take key map positions but fail badly.

 

 

I cant understand why players play the tanks to the weaknesses of the tanks and not its strengths? ie if you have pen drop at distance why try to snipe

from over 200m?

 

If you have no armour why try to play 'Bully' tank?

 

If you have no HP why try to trade?

 

If you have poor V/R why try to outspot the oponents in the LOS game?

 

.....Why try to play aggressive when its only a very few highly skilled players that can use lights that way anyway? (Me not included)...i see this all the time.

 

 

For anyone that played lights in the old +3 MM and learned all the tips and tricks of the trade there being top tier is a godsend.:medal:

 

 

If you are one of the guys that went from high tier meds straight to high tier lights you will struggle.

 

Stop playing them like Meds guys and you will be fine:bush:

 

 

 

 

 

They don't have any strengths.

 

Their 'strengths' are mobility and camo and these are only marginally better than many tier 10 mediums, and their poor gun power means you can't really leverage those strengths as well as other tanks. 

 

People snipe in them because the tanks are paper, have low hit points and have camo, those characteristics would indicate that is a sensible way to play them. But WG don't want lights sniping, so give them terrible accuracy and penetration drop off.

 

But then you get closer and you still have no armour, no hit points, no DPM so you are not effective at closer ranges either, so that is out. Mediums again play the flanker/harrasser role much better because they have the gun power for it, having like 30-40% more DPM, some usable armour in many cases, and better penetration, whilst only having slightly worse mobility. 

 

The lights have no role and they are a contradiction of abilities, their camo, mobility, paper armour and low HP says stay medium to long ranges, their poor penetration and pen drop off says get closer, their poor DPM and low alpha doesn't help with either role. 

 

 






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