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WG, Constructive Feedback, ALL feedback is constructive


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_Anarchistic_ #1 Posted 30 March 2018 - 12:18 PM

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So after seeing multiple threads on many subjects closed by moderators for not being constructive thought I would try a different approach.

 

For me there are 3 issues-

 

1- all feedback is constructive, it explains the players feelings about the game, expresses their anger, hopes etc therefore ALL feedback is constructive.  Not liking the feedback is irrelevant, only wanting feedback that pats you on the head is not positive feedback, it is not constructive in any way, the truth is absolute and if multiple players, multiple threads all say the same thing then you as a company HAVE to listen and take it on board.  

 

this leads on to 2

 

2-  ignoring feedback, WG have been ignoring almost every piece of feedback ever given, whether it be on these forums, on the test server or on the sandbox.  Arty is still in the game, the changes to arty were universally hated on test server but still implemented.  you can see the same with Japanese heavy tanks, 268v4, 430U etc etc etc.. This is also true regarding the sandbox, look at all the posts about steppes but nothing taken on board, just plough on regardess and make the game worse.  Now we have erlenberg, same thing, test server feedback all say this map is worse but again WG do not listen.  As a result the game is getting more and more unbalanced, more and more dumbed down and less and less new player friendly, check my F2P experiment or watch the Shishx vids.  closing posts is not the answer which leads me on to 3

 

3- shutting down the debate.  what is the point of sandbox, test servers and forums if you ignore the feedback and shut things down.  why issue threats against guys like Sir_Foch because what he says is correct or because you do not like what people say, take it on the chin, be open and honest and listen and if you don't think the average player knows, at least listen to the great players from ESL, CCs etc, players who really know this game and how to improve it

 

Obvioulsy personal attacks on people are not acceptable, again as WG found out when they attacked Sir_Foch, but questions are acceptable, for example how did Phelan keep his job after that fiasco

 

in conclusion ALL FEEDBACK IS CONSTRUCTIVE. It may not be what you want to hear, it may be critical and point out your mistakes but there are reasons for forums and players making posts, listen to your players and you would have avoided most of the mistakes you have been making

 

 

 

 


Edited by _Anarchistic_, 30 March 2018 - 12:20 PM.


Nazgarth #2 Posted 30 March 2018 - 12:21 PM

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inb4 "but we do lisun"

Homer_J #3 Posted 30 March 2018 - 12:22 PM

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Most of the threads aren't feedback.  And even if you count a one line rant all in caps as feedback then closing the thread doesn't change that.

_Anarchistic_ #4 Posted 30 March 2018 - 12:22 PM

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View PostNazgarth, on 30 March 2018 - 12:21 PM, said:

inb4 "but we do lisun"

 

and to be fair they did listen regarding the Bat Chat changes, cant think of any others off top of my head

Asklepi0s #5 Posted 30 March 2018 - 12:24 PM

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Well done !
Thank you for your thread. I will ask one of our Community Managers to check your thread.
I can't wait to read more of your threads.


_Anarchistic_ #6 Posted 30 March 2018 - 12:25 PM

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View PostAsklepi0s, on 30 March 2018 - 12:24 PM, said:

Well done !
Thank you for your thread. I will ask one of our Community Managers to check your thread.
I can't wait to read more of your threads.

 

Yaay, I passed :teethhappy:

Nazgarth #7 Posted 30 March 2018 - 12:25 PM

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View Post_Anarchistic_, on 30 March 2018 - 12:22 PM, said:

 

and to be fair they did listen regarding the Bat Chat changes, cant think of any others off top of my head

 

If only they did the same with 263 line, but I guess the amount of paying customers who used money to work the way up the 263 line was relatively small compared to the batchat line, so [edited]them.

Homer_J #8 Posted 30 March 2018 - 12:36 PM

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View Post_Anarchistic_, on 30 March 2018 - 12:22 PM, said:

 

and to be fair they did listen regarding the Bat Chat changes, cant think of any others off top of my head

 

You mean they changed their mind.

 

That doesn't mean they listened then or didn't listen any other time.  It just means that WG's opinion coincided with that of the great unwashed.



unhappy_bunny #9 Posted 30 March 2018 - 12:37 PM

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1. Raging, or bland statements, such as "Remove Arty", or "Erlenberg is [editied]" are not feedback of any description. Posts on the forum are not feedback, as there is a section for feedback and suggestions. Just because multiple threads are raised, mostly in a rude and non-constructive manner, does not mean the company HAS to act on them. 

 

2.Do you have evidence that WG do not read and consider any feedback from players? Other than they havent made the changes you demand? They might consider the changes you want as not being essential or beneficial to their game. Besides which, there are many, many posts that are full of condradictory opinions. Some people like arty, some people hate it, some people like more open maps, others like closed city maps, some like the current MM, others hate it. And that is just the posts in this forum, I have no idea what goes on with "feedback" from test servers and the sandbox.

 

3. Is not always what someone say, its how they say it. There is a vast difference between "I think aspect XXX is unfair or needs changing, becase........" and "fix your [edited]  XXX you [edited]". 



_Anarchistic_ #10 Posted 30 March 2018 - 12:50 PM

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View Postunhappy_bunny, on 30 March 2018 - 12:37 PM, said:

1. Raging, or bland statements, such as "Remove Arty", or "Erlenberg is [editied]" are not feedback of any description. Posts on the forum are not feedback, as there is a section for feedback and suggestions. Just because multiple threads are raised, mostly in a rude and non-constructive manner, does not mean the company HAS to act on them. 

 

2.Do you have evidence that WG do not read and consider any feedback from players? Other than they havent made the changes you demand? They might consider the changes you want as not being essential or beneficial to their game. Besides which, there are many, many posts that are full of condradictory opinions. Some people like arty, some people hate it, some people like more open maps, others like closed city maps, some like the current MM, others hate it. And that is just the posts in this forum, I have no idea what goes on with "feedback" from test servers and the sandbox.

 

3. Is not always what someone say, its how they say it. There is a vast difference between "I think aspect XXX is unfair or needs changing, becase........" and "fix your [edited]  XXX you [edited]". 

 

all fair points, however I would argue the opposite.

 

anger, frustration are feedback in themselves and in some ways just as informative, if not as articulate.  if someone is so upset they post a rant that is pure, unfiltered feedback and worth investigating.  

 

second one off posts sure, or posts where players clearly don't understand the game mechanics, no issues normally someone points them in the right direction but when yu see multiple posts repeating same thing over and over from different players and in different forums totally different matter.

 

as for wg listening, ever since I started playing arty has been an issue and the vast majority of the posts want it gone, even WG probably know its bad for the game but money comes into it seems to be the conclusion.  you ask about sandbox test server feedback, I can assure you having been on them it is ignored, I can tell you I have spoken to super testers who wonder why they bother as wg ignores all their feedback, if you don't believe me just look at Wunder wurst and his posts, look at sandbox forums for yourself, listen to any CC on twitch or see how Sir_Foch got treated, no better example of WG than Sir_FOch's treatment

 



WindSplitter1 #11 Posted 30 March 2018 - 01:01 PM

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Moderation team is watching this thread. It might be closed soon since it doesn't really add anything worth developing.

Cuck0osNest #12 Posted 30 March 2018 - 01:02 PM

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View Postunhappy_bunny, on 30 March 2018 - 12:37 PM, said:

1. Raging, or bland statements, such as "Remove Arty", or "Erlenberg is [editied]" are not feedback of any description. Posts on the forum are not feedback, as there is a section for feedback and suggestions. Just because multiple threads are raised, mostly in a rude and non-constructive manner, does not mean the company HAS to act on them. 

 

2.Do you have evidence that WG do not read and consider any feedback from players? Other than they havent made the changes you demand? They might consider the changes you want as not being essential or beneficial to their game. Besides which, there are many, many posts that are full of condradictory opinions. Some people like arty, some people hate it, some people like more open maps, others like closed city maps, some like the current MM, others hate it. And that is just the posts in this forum, I have no idea what goes on with "feedback" from test servers and the sandbox.

 

3. Is not always what someone say, its how they say it. There is a vast difference between "I think aspect XXX is unfair or needs changing, becase........" and "fix your [edited]  XXX you [edited]". 

Yes they read, consider and even fixing it

i dont know whats the point of talking about it

 

Be constructive

  • When posting, please make sure you do so with good intentions. Refrain from posting when you don't have anything positive or constructive to say on the topic.
  • Your post should contribute to the discussion or the solution of the issue being discussed.
  • If the only purpose of your post is to be negative, it is not worth posting.

Edited by Cuck0osNest, 30 March 2018 - 01:05 PM.


_b_ #13 Posted 30 March 2018 - 01:08 PM

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Had to like OPs post! Totally agree.

 

Ofc there are trolls and immature ppl out there, but if someone comes to forum FULL TILT like they often do...it actually is also a very solid feedback that something isn't ok.

 

Be that it often is not having understood mechanisms in-game...but that should also tell WG that WAY MORE good videos explaining how stuff work is in order!

 

 



Bitter_Kipper #14 Posted 30 March 2018 - 01:11 PM

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View Post_Anarchistic_, on 30 March 2018 - 11:22 AM, said:

 

and to be fair they did listen regarding the Bat Chat changes, cant think of any others off top of my head

 

​There in lies the problem. You really have to try hard to remember the times they have listen to the feed back.

The number of times it is ignored -  Not so hard

Foch 155 - test server pointed out nerfs were too much Gun, armour & engine . Many alternatives pointed out - action taken none - Tank went live with nerfs and disappeared from the battle field

110E5 - Test server multiple thread about its armour profile  being broken - action taken - none went live - later claimed it was an accident......

Maus buff - Multiple treads on test server saying buffs were too much alternatives suggested - action taken - buffed more and went live 2 patches to get it to where it is now.

Object lol we were drunk V4 - threads, videos saying it was stupid OP - action taken - went live

 

That is without even trying. One thing all of these tanks had in common was that anyone who played the game with any kind of critical thinking would have seen why these tanks were wrong before they went live.

Yet the developers could not see it. Yeah they could but money blinds.



evilchaosmonkey #15 Posted 30 March 2018 - 01:19 PM

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All feedback is useful, IMO.

But, it all depends on how you articulate the feedback.

Wasn't that what triggered the events around Sir Foch after 46 seconds of swearing at a company, same for Cicronflexes and his family insults?

 

Flat out opening post gibberish or swearing says what exactly?

 

I suspect they do listen, it's just the feedback on maps/tanks is going against the grand plan and the investment to date at that point. 

They'll watch the statistics and change slowly after taking into consideration the feedback.  I doubt they ignore everything as people protest.


Edited by evilchaosmonkey, 30 March 2018 - 01:21 PM.


Gkirmathal #16 Posted 30 March 2018 - 01:20 PM

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View PostBallisticgel, on 30 March 2018 - 12:11 PM, said:

 

​...snip...

 

Yet the developers could not see it. Yeah they could but money blinds.

 

Most certain it is the latter.

I do think they did saw all the things you listed and those things were released with full intention. As it acts like the proverbial  giant carrot you dangle from a stick in front of a donkey to persuade it to walk forward...a.k. to spend money on the grind, to a flavor of the patch tank..


Edited by Gkirmathal, 30 March 2018 - 01:22 PM.


Jigabachi #17 Posted 30 March 2018 - 01:31 PM

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While whining is indeed feedback, it's not constructive at all.
When 100 people start threads like "Hurrdurrwot fix urs game it sux!!1", they know that something is wrong, but since they don't play their own game and see everything from a different perspective, they don't have any idea WHAT is wrong.

But yes, concerning everything around communication with the playerbase (feedback, general activity), this game hit an all-time low. Which is even more sad given the huge success of the game. And it's one major reason why I won't give them any money.

Edited by Jigabachi, 30 March 2018 - 04:15 PM.


vuque #18 Posted 30 March 2018 - 03:23 PM

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View Post_Anarchistic_, on 30 March 2018 - 01:18 PM, said:

So after seeing multiple threads on many subjects closed by moderators for not being constructive thought I would try a different approach.

 

For me there are 3 issues-

 

1- all feedback is constructive, it explains the players feelings about the game, expresses their anger, hopes etc therefore ALL feedback is constructive.  Not liking the feedback is irrelevant, only wanting feedback that pats you on the head is not positive feedback, it is not constructive in any way, the truth is absolute and if multiple players, multiple threads all say the same thing then you as a company HAVE to listen and take it on board.  

 

this leads on to 2

 

2-  ignoring feedback, WG have been ignoring almost every piece of feedback ever given, whether it be on these forums, on the test server or on the sandbox.  Arty is still in the game, the changes to arty were universally hated on test server but still implemented.  you can see the same with Japanese heavy tanks, 268v4, 430U etc etc etc.. This is also true regarding the sandbox, look at all the posts about steppes but nothing taken on board, just plough on regardess and make the game worse.  Now we have erlenberg, same thing, test server feedback all say this map is worse but again WG do not listen.  As a result the game is getting more and more unbalanced, more and more dumbed down and less and less new player friendly, check my F2P experiment or watch the Shishx vids.  closing posts is not the answer which leads me on to 3

 

3- shutting down the debate.  what is the point of sandbox, test servers and forums if you ignore the feedback and shut things down.  why issue threats against guys like Sir_Foch because what he says is correct or because you do not like what people say, take it on the chin, be open and honest and listen and if you don't think the average player knows, at least listen to the great players from ESL, CCs etc, players who really know this game and how to improve it

 

Obvioulsy personal attacks on people are not acceptable, again as WG found out when they attacked Sir_Foch, but questions are acceptable, for example how did Phelan keep his job after that fiasco

 

in conclusion ALL FEEDBACK IS CONSTRUCTIVE. It may not be what you want to hear, it may be critical and point out your mistakes but there are reasons for forums and players making posts, listen to your players and you would have avoided most of the mistakes you have been making

 

1 - No not all feedback is constructive. Also I would like to add, constructive feedback doesn't mean positive feedback only. You can give negative feedback in a constructive way.

 

Block Quote

truth is absolute and if multiple players, multiple threads all say the same thing then you as a company HAVE to listen and take it on board.  

 

Are you sure that your numbers are greater than the other players who disagrees with you? We are carefully looking into feedback provided on different channels and sources, i.e: player feedback, surveys, in game stats, contributor feedback etc. We are also looking into the meta game so the way the player base actually plays the game. All of this combined helps us take decisions about where the game should be heading.

 

Block Quote

2- ignoring feedback, WG have been ignoring almost every piece of feedback ever given, whether it be on these forums, on the test server or on the sandbox.  Arty is still in the game, the changes to arty were universally hated on test server but still implemented.  you can see the same with Japanese heavy tanks, 268v4, 430U etc etc etc.. This is also true regarding the sandbox, look at all the posts about steppes but nothing taken on board, just plough on regardess and make the game worse.  Now we have erlenberg, same thing, test server feedback all say this map is worse but again WG do not listen.  As a result the game is getting more and more unbalanced, more and more dumbed down and less and less new player friendly, check my F2P experiment or watch the Shishx vids.  closing posts is not the answer which leads me on to 3

 

2 -  We do listen but again, you need to provide your feedback in a constructive way.

 

Block Quote

 3- shutting down the debate.  what is the point of sandbox, test servers and forums if you ignore the feedback and shut things down. 

 

3 - I would suggest you to go back to the point 2 for the answer. Also if I might add, there is a difference between constructive feedback and insult/rant.



Nazgarth #19 Posted 30 March 2018 - 04:05 PM

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View Postvuque, on 30 March 2018 - 03:23 PM, said:

 

1 - No not all feedback is constructive. Also I would like to add, constructive feedback doesn't mean positive feedback only. You can give negative feedback in a constructive way.

 

 

Are you sure that your numbers are greater than the other players who disagrees with you? We are carefully looking into feedback provided on different channels and sources, i.e: player feedback, surveys, in game stats, contributor feedback etc. We are also looking into the meta game so the way the player base actually plays the game. All of this combined helps us take decisions about where the game should be heading.

 

 

2 -  We do listen but again, you need to provide your feedback in a constructive way.

 

 

3 - I would suggest you to go back to the point 2 for the answer. Also if I might add, there is a difference between constructive feedback and insult/rant.

 

No doubt you will be able to easily create a few dozen report threads regarding the things you "listen to" (e.g. obj 263 line being altered when we were told the plan was cancelled, mutant for sale again, OP tanks such as obj 268 v4, current state of MM). No that doesn't mean just because the people don't get their way they don't want to see what "the stats" say about a particular subject, or the communication between WG EU and Minsk. You say you listen and have stats and all the BS but where is it?


 

Where can I go and see what the contributors are saying? Where are "the stats"? Where's the communication reports from Minsk? Where's the surveys results and analysis?


 

 

Past few days I've replied to mods on this forum and received not even an acknowledgment of these problems as well as other concerns not listed here. This is why you have reputation of not listening because the extent of your "listening" is replying to complaints that you don't listen.



m1x_angelico #20 Posted 30 March 2018 - 05:53 PM

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I'm not sure I would agree that WG listens to almost no feedback. This may be the case for certain points, but just because you and I think something should be done, it doesn't mean that WG did not hear us. They simple, for some reasons, do not agree with our feedback or call to action, or simply do not want to do what is asked. Let's not mix up these two things. If WG did not listen to anyone's input, what would be the purpose of writing on the forum or contacting them?

 

One may also note that there is a small group of players on the forum that constantly troll, ridicule any topic, going off-topic, insulting, etc. This is type of nonconstructive feedback and posting is not sanctioned enough by the moderator staff, this is true. Transparency is also a bit problematic at times - editing unwanted posts, merging treads, closing topic due to being nonconstructive, etc.

 

Although some people have great difficulties expressing their thoughts and feelings coherently, I can only agree that all feedback is valuable, but not that all feedback is constructive. A quick search of the forums can attest to that.

 






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