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When to use Camo withOUT Binocs and Optics?


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DobryProboszcz #1 Posted 01 April 2018 - 10:41 AM

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Different playing styles and different tanks can benefit from different Equipment.

Can you think and tell when one would benefit from Camo Equipment but not having on the tank Binocs and no Optics, but some other Equipment.

Would be interesting to hear your thoughts.

 

For example you may want to answer like "if you play with HeavyTank on maps with lot of bushes then such Equipment choice helps". 

 

Equipment explained:

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Equipment

 

Thanks.


Edited by Sempiterna_, 01 April 2018 - 10:41 AM.


cRuZ0r #2 Posted 01 April 2018 - 10:43 AM

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Dont ever use a camofluage net on a heavy tank

breeeze #3 Posted 01 April 2018 - 10:50 AM

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Camo net is an equipment that, with very few exceptions, should never be used ever. And especially never before binos/optics.

Martijn_mk2 #4 Posted 01 April 2018 - 11:13 AM

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My guess is, only when you are a clicker.

DobryProboszcz #5 Posted 01 April 2018 - 11:17 AM

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View PostMartijn_mk2, on 01 April 2018 - 10:13 AM, said:

My guess is, only when you are a clicker.

 

You are saying that Artillery players aka Clickers may benefit from Camo without Optics/Binocs, right?

 

Is there any other occasion when Camo alone without Binos and without Optics is useful?

 

Maybe on low tier small maps the Camo alone is a wise choice for some tanks.

 

I believe that every combination of Equipment can be useful for certain occasions.



breeeze #6 Posted 01 April 2018 - 12:12 PM

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View PostSempiterna_, on 01 April 2018 - 11:17 AM, said:

 

You are saying that Artillery players aka Clickers may benefit from Camo without Optics/Binocs, right?

 

Is there any other occasion when Camo alone without Binos and without Optics is useful?

 

Maybe on low tier small maps the Camo alone is a wise choice for some tanks.

 

I believe that every combination of Equipment can be useful for certain occasions.

 

Not really, camo net gives only 5% camo to arty, I much rather have 25% better vr to outspot the enemy at the end.

 

No.

 

Its not.

 

And no.



DobryProboszcz #7 Posted 01 April 2018 - 01:07 PM

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View Postbreeeze, on 01 April 2018 - 11:12 AM, said:

"I believe that every combination of Equipment can be useful for certain occasions."

 

And no.

 

I believe that there are situations where some weird combination of Equipment turns to be beneficial sometimes. 

For example there is only 1-versus-1 situation in a map with lot of trees. Then you as a heavy tank will benefit of Camo because you will stay longer hidden for enemy last tank and this gives you an advantage. This is only one random example that i generated right now that shows a situation when Camo alone can be useful.

 

My general question of this topic is that people would think and talk about more occasions when a weird combination of Equipment can benefit.

Specially a Camo alone.

 



Lycopersicon #8 Posted 01 April 2018 - 01:19 PM

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Cannot think of any. Perhaps a slow open-topped arty would come into account: you mount GLD and rammer and then the third slot is pretty useless in any case (in a closed arty you would use vents there); when you spot an enemy even with binos or optics then he spots you as well and you are dead no matter what, so you might as well go for the minuscule camo bonus that might make a slight difference in one game out of a hundred.

Edited by Lycopersicon, 01 April 2018 - 01:19 PM.


Sfinski #9 Posted 01 April 2018 - 01:55 PM

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View PostSempiterna_, on 01 April 2018 - 02:07 PM, said:

 

I believe that there are situations where some weird combination of Equipment turns to be beneficial sometimes. 

For example there is only 1-versus-1 situation in a map with lot of trees. Then you as a heavy tank will benefit of Camo because you will stay longer hidden for enemy last tank and this gives you an advantage. This is only one random example that i generated right now that shows a situation when Camo alone can be useful.

 

My general question of this topic is that people would think and talk about more occasions when a weird combination of Equipment can benefit.

Specially a Camo alone.

 

 

But when there's none of those situations there's nothing to discuss. In that example you gave about heavy in the woods, that heavy would benefit from most other equipments more than from that cammo net. 

DobryProboszcz #10 Posted 01 April 2018 - 02:07 PM

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View PostSfinski, on 01 April 2018 - 12:55 PM, said:

 

But when there's none of those situations there's nothing to discuss. In that example you gave about heavy in the woods, that heavy would benefit from most other equipments more than from that cammo net. 

 

From the first post i didn't say that we talk only about HeavyTanks. We can choose and generate example of any tank type, any map, any situation.

I generated randomly first example but this thread asked others to generate those examples.

I made first example with a last heavy tank in a bush who is spotted by enemy later thanks to Camo net. So in such situation the Camo net was more useful than other Equipment.

 

It does not matter what is wise to equip to get bigger benefits in long run/terms, but it is just a discussion to understand when some rare Equipment can benefit more.

 

I still believe that every combination of Equipments can benefit in some situations.

 

I understand that camo net should give advantage of circa +10 meters for a camper, for some tank types little bit more meters.

So i believe there is a tank type in a certain map in a certain cenario when Camo net alone is beneficial without Optics/Binocs.

 

I say "i believe" and i hope someone will think and find such examples.

 

The more camo value your vehicle has, the closer distance is needed between enemy/observer and your vehicle to spot/see you. So if Camo net gives you +10 additional meters advantage before you are spotted then you can benefit and see enemy vehicle circa 0.12 milliseconds faster than him and you shoot him first. I believe there are such more general situations and rules when such Camo net helps.

 

 


Edited by Sempiterna_, 01 April 2018 - 02:12 PM.


Sfinski #11 Posted 01 April 2018 - 02:15 PM

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View PostSempiterna_, on 01 April 2018 - 03:07 PM, said:

 

From the first post i didn't say that we talk only about HeavyTanks. We can choose and generate example of any tank type, any map, any situation.

I generated randomly first example but this thread asked others to generate those examples.

I made first example with a last heavy tank in a bush who is spotted by enemy later thanks to Camo net. So in such situation the Camo net was more useful than other Equipment.

 

It does not matter what is wise to equip to get bigger benefits in long run/terms, but it is just a discussion to understand when some rare Equipment can benefit more.

 

I still believe that every combination of Equipments can benefit in some situations.

 

I understand that camo net should give advantage of circa +10 meters for a camper, for some tank types little bit more meters.

So i believe there is a tank type in a certain map in a certain cenario when Camo net alone is beneficial without Optics/Binocs.

 

I say "i believe" and i hope someone will think and find such examples.

 

The more camo value your vehicle has, the closer distance is needed between enemy/observer and your vehicle to spot/see you. So if Camo net gives you +10 additional meters advantage before you are spotted then you can benefit and see enemy vehicle circa 0.12 milliseconds faster than him and you shoot him first. I believe there are such more general situations and rules when such Camo net helps.

 

 

 

Nope, still not usefull. You telling that same thing over and over  again doesn't make it useful. Your beliefs mean nothing here as we compare your beliefs to facts. People won finds such examples as there are none. 

HundeWurst #12 Posted 01 April 2018 - 02:15 PM

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Viewrange >>>> camo.

 

 



DobryProboszcz #13 Posted 01 April 2018 - 02:22 PM

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View PostSfinski, on 01 April 2018 - 01:15 PM, said:

 

Nope, still not usefull. You telling that same thing over and over  again doesn't make it useful. Your beliefs mean nothing here as we compare your beliefs to facts. People won finds such examples as there are none. 

 

Why not useful? Let's say you are a tank in a Bush with naturally long view range and with Camo net, and without Binocs/Optics.

So enemy is approaching you, coming closer. Thanks to Camo net he needs to travel let's say +12 extra meters to spot you.

This is useful, because you have extra milliseconds to stay hidden, extra +12 meters from Camo net gives you advantage.

I see it is useful.

 

Yes i agree that in most situations a tank may benefit from an other Equipment combination. But we are not talking about most situations we talk about any situation, even rare occasions. If you cannot think of an example when certain rare Equipment would work well then i believe others can give such examples later.

 

 



Sfinski #14 Posted 01 April 2018 - 02:33 PM

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View PostSempiterna_, on 01 April 2018 - 03:22 PM, said:

 

Why not useful? Let's say you are a tank in a Bush with naturally long view range and with Camo net, and without Binocs/Optics.

So enemy is approaching you, coming closer. Thanks to Camo net he needs to travel let's say +12 extra meters to spot you.

This is useful, because you have extra milliseconds to stay hidden, extra +12 meters from Camo net gives you advantage.

I see it is useful.

 

Yes i agree that in most situations a tank may benefit from an other Equipment combination. But we are not talking about most situations we talk about any situation, even rare occasions. If you cannot think of an example when certain rare Equipment would work well then i believe others can give such examples later.

 

 

 

Because you've wasted one slot for worse aiming time or view range, so putting yourself in worse position. 

LordMuffin #15 Posted 01 April 2018 - 02:43 PM

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View PostSempiterna_, on 01 April 2018 - 10:41 AM, said:

Different playing styles and different tanks can benefit from different Equipment.

Can you think and tell when one would benefit from Camo Equipment but not having on the tank Binocs and no Optics, but some other Equipment.

Would be interesting to hear your thoughts.

 

For example you may want to answer like "if you play with HeavyTank on maps with lot of bushes then such Equipment choice helps". 

 

Equipment explained:

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Equipment

 

Thanks.

Only arty.

 

In all other tanks, binos/optics are better choices.



L4NDe #16 Posted 01 April 2018 - 02:45 PM

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Try toolbox, Cyclone filter &Torsion bars. Your repair speed and maneuverability will be superior compared to anyone in any situation. :O

DobryProboszcz #17 Posted 01 April 2018 - 02:46 PM

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View PostSfinski, on 01 April 2018 - 01:33 PM, said:

 

Because you've wasted one slot for worse aiming time or view range, so putting yourself in worse position. 

 

If enemy/observer approaches quite slowly to you then he travels +12 "Camo meters" with enough time for you to aim properly.

Aiming speed and Camo and Optics/Binocs are all 3 that affects success but sometimes only one of them is crucial/beneficial.

 

Usually Camo and Binocs are both equipped for some play styles because spotting formula uses both View range and Camo values, uses both.

 

But i wonder for which occasion only Camo net would be reasonable.

 

Most of you didn't find an example of for "Camo alone scenario". 

 

But maybe later someone will come up and gives one variant when such rare Equipment choice would benefit sometimes.



LordMuffin #18 Posted 01 April 2018 - 03:02 PM

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View PostSempiterna_, on 01 April 2018 - 02:22 PM, said:

 

Why not useful? Let's say you are a tank in a Bush with naturally long view range and with Camo net, and without Binocs/Optics.

So enemy is approaching you, coming closer. Thanks to Camo net he needs to travel let's say +12 extra meters to spot you.

This is useful, because you have extra milliseconds to stay hidden, extra +12 meters from Camo net gives you advantage.

I see it is useful.

 

Yes i agree that in most situations a tank may benefit from an other Equipment combination. But we are not talking about most situations we talk about any situation, even rare occasions. If you cannot think of an example when certain rare Equipment would work well then i believe others can give such examples later.

 

 

If we talk equipment for tanks.

 

In 99% of all cases. 

V-Stab, Rammer, Optics/Vents is the only combination worth considering.

I'm some very rare, you can insert a GLD for Vents/optics, I do it in my T54E1.

 

Or you can think about GLD when V-stab is unavailable, like KV-2.

 

In the other 1% Binos is what you are interested in.

And after that Camo net.



LordMuffin #19 Posted 01 April 2018 - 03:06 PM

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View PostSempiterna_, on 01 April 2018 - 02:46 PM, said:

 

If enemy/observer approaches quite slowly to you then he travels +12 "Camo meters" with enough time for you to aim properly.

Aiming speed and Camo and Optics/Binocs are all 3 that affects success but sometimes only one of them is crucial/beneficial.

 

Usually Camo and Binocs are both equipped for some play styles because spotting formula uses both View range and Camo values, uses both.

 

But i wonder for which occasion only Camo net would be reasonable.

 

Most of you didn't find an example of for "Camo alone scenario". 

 

But maybe later someone will come up and gives one variant when such rare Equipment choice would benefit sometimes.

A scenario when camo net would be better then Binos are when you play arty and don't want to get spotted by light tanks in the earlier parts of the game.

Arty should always go for being as hard to spot as possible, as they just die if spotted.



Jigabachi #20 Posted 01 April 2018 - 03:11 PM

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Camonet was useful when the maps were still full of foliage. Today the only tanks I use camonets on are arties and maybe fast TDs.

Edited by Jigabachi, 01 April 2018 - 03:12 PM.





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