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"Wet Soapstone" Physics since 1.0 need fixing.

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Element6 #41 Posted 02 April 2018 - 11:15 AM

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View Postbrumbarr, on 01 April 2018 - 04:18 PM, said:

You also need to have way more grip to start moving a 20ton tank than a ice skater...

You already do, you have contact with the ice just about for the entire length of the tank, times the width of the tracks, times 2. Ice gives way to anything harder than itself, much more so than rocks do.

 

I recently bought a pair of these;

I could stand on the pure ice of a small frozen creek at about 45 degrees angle no sweat, because the spikes broke the surface of the ice and made small dents that the spikes gripped into. When using these on rock they can slide quite easily, the grip much less than the rubber sole of my boots.


Edited by Element6_TheSprout, 02 April 2018 - 11:16 AM.


brumbarr #42 Posted 02 April 2018 - 11:19 AM

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View PostElement6_TheSprout, on 02 April 2018 - 11:15 AM, said:

You already do, you have contact with the ice just about for the entire length of the tank, times the width of the tracks, times 2. Ice gives way to anything harder than itself, much more so than rocks do.

 

I recently bought a pair of these;

I could stand on the pure ice of a small frozen creek at about 45 degrees angle no sweat, because the spikes broke the surface of the ice and made small dents that the spikes gripped into. When using these on rock they can slide quite easily, the grip much less than the rubber sole of my boots.

Not sure what your point is?



Mr_Burrows #43 Posted 02 April 2018 - 11:21 AM

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Agree with OP, and would like to add that I can now turn my light tanks over by traversing any farm stone wall at too shallow an angle. Very irritating, and a new thing since 1.0. 

 

Soapstone indeed. 



Element6 #44 Posted 02 April 2018 - 11:21 AM

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View Postbrumbarr, on 02 April 2018 - 11:19 AM, said:

Not sure what your point is?

Ice being easier to get grip on than rock, as long as what you use to make contact with the ice is harder than the ice itself, like tank tracks are, hence ice being less of an issue for a tank thank rock.



brumbarr #45 Posted 02 April 2018 - 11:45 AM

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View PostElement6_TheSprout, on 02 April 2018 - 11:21 AM, said:

Ice being easier to get grip on than rock, as long as what you use to make contact with the ice is harder than the ice itself, like tank tracks are, hence ice being less of an issue for a tank thank rock.

Depends, ice is easier to grip with less surface area( with a harder material than ice), whereas rock is easier with more surface area.  Your boots have almost no contact. Tank tracks are designed to have a lot of contact with the ground, they wont bite in as much.



Malakhi75 #46 Posted 02 April 2018 - 12:43 PM

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View Post250swb, on 02 April 2018 - 08:21 AM, said:

 

You are still imagining tracks offer significant grip, they offer some grip (friction) but the main function is to spread the weight of a vehicle. For example early in the Russian campaign the German tanks got stuck in the mud and snow because they had narrow tracks, the Russian tanks of a similar weight had wider tracks and didn't sink into the mud. It wouldn't have mattered if the Germans increased the depth of the 'tread' on the tracks to get more grip, the tank would still have sunk in the mud because they weren't wide enough. So tanks don't use tracks because they are more 'sticky' than tyres, they use tracks to distribute the weight over a greater area, and this lighter footprint means they can traverse uneven and muddy ground despite their weight.

 

In your example of a tank having one track on slippery rock and the other on earth like anything else on a slope it relies on friction to stop it sliding down the slope. Remove 50% of the friction and.........?

 

 

Some tanks have rubber pads, but you are mistaking what they are for. It is not to make the track grip more, it is to stop the steel track ripping into the road surface and so [edited] up the supply route. It was both design philosophy, cost, terrain, rubber supply during wartime, and tactics that determined the use of them.
 

 

Rubber pads on tracks have several fucntions....

Reduce noise on paved roads

Reduce vibration

Reduce track wear

Reduce braking distances

Enhance maneuverability

 

So no, I'm not mistaken for their use. And tracks have two crucial advantages over wheels, and several draw backs. The primary function is to maximise surface contact which has 2 effects.....maximised traction and maximised weight distribution. You can't have one without the other. Lastly, several WW2 era tanks had rubber pads by default. Granted it was primarily the allied armour since the Germans ran out if rubber relatively early on. But, the issue still stands.....the Physx is poorly implemented where the scenery is concerned

 

 



Element6 #47 Posted 02 April 2018 - 01:03 PM

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View Postbrumbarr, on 02 April 2018 - 11:45 AM, said:

Depends, ice is easier to grip with less surface area( with a harder material than ice), whereas rock is easier with more surface area.  Your boots have almost no contact. Tank tracks are designed to have a lot of contact with the ground, they wont bite in as much.

I just looked at all my T10 tanks, and apart from the US ones all seem to have some sort of protrusions/grousers, which would dig into the ice due to high weight on relatively small contact area, which in turn would increase contact area while at the same time working a bit like a chain and sprocket. It could be argued that the US tanks which seem to have larger flat rubber contact areas should work better than the other tanks on a rocky surface, but I guess that would be a hazzle to code, among other issues.   



Inappropriate_noob #48 Posted 02 April 2018 - 01:10 PM

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View PostBrowarszky, on 01 April 2018 - 02:34 PM, said:

This is how you learn to do it properly.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9KFAM4e-nk

 

Thank you so much for that video, I find it funny how one thing on a WoT forum can lead me totally astray, even manages to get me away from WoT in it's entireity

 



brumbarr #49 Posted 02 April 2018 - 01:29 PM

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View PostElement6_TheSprout, on 02 April 2018 - 01:03 PM, said:

I just looked at all my T10 tanks, and apart from the US ones all seem to have some sort of protrusions/grousers, which would dig into the ice due to high weight on relatively small contact area, which in turn would increase contact area while at the same time working a bit like a chain and sprocket. It could be argued that the US tanks which seem to have larger flat rubber contact areas should work better than the other tanks on a rocky surface, but I guess that would be a hazzle to code, among other issues.   

Fair enough, that would work wel on ice, although seems horrible on roads though, thats gonna mess it up. And wont have any grip on rocks either, but prob works well in mud.



Mr_Burrows #50 Posted 02 April 2018 - 01:38 PM

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I find the entire discussion to be amazing. We got an online game where you magically can heal any crew member (or bring him/her back from the dead) by using a medpac, a game where enemy tanks light up with a red outline when aimed at, a game where you can repair tracks in less than 1 second... And so on. 

 

And here people discuss what is more "realistic".

 

Yeah. 

 

It was good riding my bike for the first time since January 10't. Not far, only 20 K, but it felt good and I did okay average speed. Now I'll just wait and see if the new tubeless setup works or if it will keep on leaking air. And it was good because discussions about "realism" in an online gam just messes my head up. How can people even begin...? Online game. Reality. 

 

Nope. 

 

 



Bordhaw #51 Posted 02 April 2018 - 04:20 PM

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View Post250swb, on 02 April 2018 - 07:21 AM, said:

 

You are still imagining tracks offer significant grip, they offer some grip (friction) but the main function is to spread the weight of a vehicle. For example early in the Russian campaign the German tanks got stuck in the mud and snow because they had narrow tracks, the Russian tanks of a similar weight had wider tracks and didn't sink into the mud. It wouldn't have mattered if the Germans increased the depth of the 'tread' on the tracks to get more grip, the tank would still have sunk in the mud because they weren't wide enough. So tanks don't use tracks because they are more 'sticky' than tyres, they use tracks to distribute the weight over a greater area, and this lighter footprint means they can traverse uneven and muddy ground despite their weight.

 

In your example of a tank having one track on slippery rock and the other on earth like anything else on a slope it relies on friction to stop it sliding down the slope. Remove 50% of the friction and.........?

 

 

Some tanks have rubber pads, but you are mistaking what they are for. It is not to make the track grip more, it is to stop the steel track ripping into the road surface and so [edited] up the supply route. It was both design philosophy, cost, terrain, rubber supply during wartime, and tactics that determined the use of them.
 

 

:facepalm:

Pandabird #52 Posted 02 April 2018 - 04:25 PM

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Certainly feels quite slippery now, but i feel it's more about how much control you lose rather than how easily it happens.

 

Losing traction essentially makes you lose all control and you may as well ignore the keyboard for a while.



_Anarchistic_ #53 Posted 02 April 2018 - 09:32 PM

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yep, thanks wg, just thx

 

http://wotreplays.eu...bbey-f2pexp-t67



Enforcer1975 #54 Posted 02 April 2018 - 09:43 PM

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View Post250swb, on 01 April 2018 - 12:23 PM, said:

 

Really? How much grip do you imagine steel tracks have on rock? Or put it another way, have you ever been ice skating, noticed how steel blades slide over ice because it is hard? Or maybe you've noticed how climbers don't use steel toe cap boots?

 

You don't skate off just like that and the game also cuts your engine power for some reason unlike irl where the tank has some weight to "grab" the cracks on the surface. Even on todays concrete and asphalt roads that look way more slippery than a usual rock tanks don't just slide around totally out of control even if you remove the rubber pads which are mainly to more or less protect the road surface from damage. 

Also skate blades don't work because they are harder than the ice. The pressure applied from the blade causes the ice to melt and the waterfilm between the blade and the ice is the actual reason you can slide. 


Edited by Enforcer1975, 03 April 2018 - 12:18 AM.


Pansenmann #55 Posted 02 April 2018 - 09:45 PM

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View Post250swb, on 01 April 2018 - 12:23 PM, said:

 

Really? How much grip do you imagine steel tracks have on rock? Or put it another way, have you ever been ice skating, noticed how steel blades slide over ice because it is hard? Or maybe you've noticed how climbers don't use steel toe cap boots?

 

well, rubber pads should be part of the "grousers" module which one can buy for a tank I think.

that should work.



clixor #56 Posted 02 April 2018 - 09:54 PM

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It's not only the 'rock' physics. But in general all terrains seem to be more dragging the acceleration down. Perhaps a ninja nerf to faster tanks?

Pansenmann #57 Posted 02 April 2018 - 10:01 PM

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I think you guys know that video :)

 

Spoiler

 



Nallic #58 Posted 03 April 2018 - 07:52 AM

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It is a little annoying that as soon as the side of your tracks hit an obstacle it starts to 'climb' or slide and you run the risk of flipping over.

grensu #59 Posted 03 April 2018 - 08:18 AM

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i've encountered this "bug" aswell .. mostly on erlenberg near the mounds on the west of the castle wall, was trying to go hulldown there with my cent 7/1 a couple of times, as soon as you hit the mound or rock with the track even a little bit you start slipping out of cover or climbing the mound with no input to the tank .. really annoying if there are enemies aiming at you and all you tried to do was to bait a shot from them -.-

SABAOTH #60 Posted 03 April 2018 - 08:27 AM

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Paper beats rock.

 

Use paper tanks :hiding:







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