Jump to content


haha amx 13 57 funny april joke wg lol

AMX 13 57 premium shop wont be sold again burger king balance? hodor :)

  • Please log in to reply
123 replies to this topic

D4wiD3K #1 Posted 01 April 2018 - 06:40 PM

    Sergeant

  • Player
  • 659 battles
  • 276
  • Member since:
    08-11-2012

Good evening everyone,

 

 

Really, I don't even know how to start. Just very recently on February or so we had an enormous [edited]storm about the potential sale of Defender. We got all this "We're with you guys, we care about balance" stuff from the Wargaming EU office that gave a small glimmer of hope that balance would be some kind of a concern. And then now a few weeks later we see the AMX 13 57 being sold in the premium shop.

 

Why is this thing being sold? In the Defender case WG EU took the stance that they are not selling a super broken tanks because of the toxicity it causes. Are players going to be "more satisfied" and "less troubled" with a super overpowered, extremely unbalanced light tank that can clip one tier lower mediums just because "haha lol is light tank is funny"? I sincerely hope not. Retardproof armor isn't the only broken thing in this game, extreme burst damage is just as bad. I am sure we'll get some arguments that it doesn't have any armor or that it's supposedly hard to play so it's fine. These players have clearly never played the tank. Having the fastest tank with the best camo rating(that it keeps on the move), 390m view range and and still being able to spit out 720 damage(enough to 1-clip many tier 6s) with remarkably good gun handling and shell speed doesn't result in a well balanced tank. The statistics also back this up perfectly - the 13 57 is a disgusting overperformer all across the board. This includes terrible players. Light tanks are supposed to be the most punishing and hardest tanks to play, yet even 46% players are already overperforming with the 13 57. What does that say about the tank?

 

 

The reasons why 13 57 is less hated than the Defender are the following:

 

  1. It cannot be used on SHs/TBs because it's tier 7 instead of 8. At least it doesn't ruin SHs/TBs with its presence. That's a little bit of something but that hardly changes the big picture. It's still a super broken tank.
  2. There are lots of double-moraled who only want broken tanks to not be sold if they already own them. It's fine to sell broken tanks when the person needs it, but if the person already owns the tank it should be shut down and Wargaming are. 
  3. The raw numbers are low. AMX 13 57 a 3-years-old tank that was considered just plain bad for the entire duration of its sale. Then it was overbuffed around a year ago and was not sold until today when WG decided it's a "fun april fool" to spread some more disease. The real April fool here is the WoT EU's "moral" decision to not sell the Defender because it was supposedly a toxic tank. This tank is more of the same and WG EU can shove all their "we care" BS into where the sun doesn't shine. You don't. The alternative is that you're too incompetent to see through how disgustingly broken this tank is. In that case the ones responsible should just be fired(except Kandly if she's involved, pls no fire).

 

You could argue that as result it's not as broken as Defender. But it's pretty damn close and clearly an extremely unhealthy tank that should never be sold. Which is, by the way, what WG also stated during the Grand Final 2017 Q&A. That it wouldn't be sold again. But you know, who the hell cares? It's the 1st of April. What a great opportunity to make a funny joke by eating your promises and selling a busted tank. I'm laughing so hard that you guys can't imagine. Good joke WG, one of the best! Can we have PZ V/IV to celebrate the midsummer with, or can we perhaps buff IS-3's front plate? Can never have enough of funny jokes. This "joke" was about as funny as going to the dentist.

 

Lots of players also seem to talk themselves into thinking that a light tank couldn't possibly be broken "because it takes skill to play" or "because it has no armor". It still overperforms for everyone by a long margin. Yes. It's an unarmored light tank and even bots are still making it work better than most of their heavies. Does the fact that you don't need gold ammo to penetrate it negate that? It shouldn't.

 

It has too far too much "good" in it. It has great camo value, its mobility is fantastic and it has more firepower than most TDs of the same tier. I have countless times out-traded ISs/IS-2s with this tank. All you need to do is wait for him to fire his gun and then you go erase 60% of his health. That's the very hard hitting tier 7 Russian heavy with plenty of DPM in case someone has been living under the rock. You'd almost imagine that the tank with 390 alpha and 2k DPM should have the advantage in trading against anything of its own tier except slow, turretless TDs. This isn't the case though. Let's give the fast, stealthy light tank more burst potential. That's alright though, it's just a funny light tank and nothing like a Defender.

 

Of course IS-2 inflicts its 390 damage over 1 shot which is naturally a big advantage and someone could feel that I am exaggerating here. Of course you're not looking to trade with an IS on a fast tank that can clip tier 6 mediums. You'll be sealclubbing on the opposite flank where you outpace, outcamo, outspot and outburst anything you face. But sometimes you don't have the choice and you need to brawl, and having a light tank with so much firepower is outrageous. 13 57 doesn't do 390 damage in an instant but it deals 720 damage in a window of 7 seconds while being able to permatrack enemies pretty easily. The intraclip reload is 1s so you can estimate the enemy reload, shoot him a few times and go back to cover a second before you think he can shoot again. Even if you get it wrong and he gets to shot you, you'll come out on top as long as you're not trading with a KV-2 or a Japanese heavy. Very hard to make the tank work yes? 

 

If you have any clue about enemy tank reloads at all, you usually won't do a full clip on them. Imagine the horror of only being able to do some 450-540 damage over 5-6 seconds on the tier 8 medium that just fired its gun 240 alpha gun, then hiding and receiving no damage in return. But then you have to reload your clip which is the balancing factor right? No, the reload time of a full clip is 15s. Yes I said 15s, not 25s. Then after those 15s you're ready to spit out another 720 damage and bring down another lower tier tank. Because of this you can safely press the reload button during almost any downtime without missing out on anything which means your magazine is going to be full almost every time. But this isn't like Defender right? Clearly very hard to play and only works for the unicums!

 

Also when you see a relatively isolated enemy tank with less than 700 hitpoints you'll feel like Bill Clinton who sees a 4-year-old girl(or boy). It's just free prey that has no chance of fighting back. You can just make a retarded mongolpush and expect to be shot back at once while you send him back to garage. Even if you miss some shots you're fast enough to get away. These autoaim yolopushes are very difficult to execute - you have to press RR, lock autoaim on the enemy and press down your LMB. At times you might also have to turn your tank. I am sure the yellow/orange unicums can surely appreciate how hard it is to outplay an enemy like this. This is fun and healthy gameplay that should be rewarded. We all know how super hilarious it is when an orange player on T49 goes out of his way to throw his top tier tank away just to derp down your lower tier light/medium light tank. Nothing could be more fun. I think the game needs more of this, and that's exactly what we got here.

 

This tank is the definition of "overpowered". It's far too good in far too many things and anyone with a basic understanding of the game knows this. Well, at least the ones who weren't looking to buy it themselves. Such tanks simply should not be sold. The decision to sell 13 57(and eating your promises once again) was a shocking one. I can understand that a lot of people celebrate Easter with booze, but it would be awesome if that could be limited to to free time. This tank was on the "should absolutely not be sold" list, and very high on that as well. 

 

I was opposing the sale of Defender even though I needed one simply because it's an unhealthy tank. Now that we've gotten this far, can we please put it back into the store so I can buy one as well. With the pace you're destroying high tiers with I could also do with a SU-76i so can please sell it in the near future? It's not that overpowered, you just aim for the weak spots and flank it. Also did I mention yet that Defender only overperforms because only good players play it?  :)

 

You guys at WG EU can also scratch any plans of having a positive relationship with this community that you wanted to create with the Defender case. The fact it took you mere weeks to demolish any gains you won there makes it 10 times worse, and I'll be the first one to call you out when you next try to create an illusion that game balance is any kind of a concern. Alternatively if you can't prevent tanks like this being sold, your word simply doesn't hold any weigh on the East. Pick your poison. Also mandatory, me when I saw this incredible level of stupidity:

 

 

But what the hell, is just funny light tank right? haha lol not defender, funny tank hahahahahahhahaha good joke wg :)

 

P.S. I'd also like to congratulate you for the secondary "april joke" of sneaking in 3000 gold into the cheapest package to inflate the price by 10€, then calling it the "Standard" package. You're such good April jokers today. Maybe we can have a few server crashes with no compensation next? It would be about as funny as this.


Edited by D4wiD3K, 01 April 2018 - 06:51 PM.


gunslingerXXX #2 Posted 01 April 2018 - 07:01 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 11034 battles
  • 1,998
  • [GUNSL] GUNSL
  • Member since:
    11-16-2014

Stoped reading halfway through but I think I got the point; the 13 57 is OP.

 

I don't own it, so I don't know. Yes the curve shows it overperforms. Other tanks also overperform. Ok whatever.

 

I think you should have realized by now WG is milking this cow dry. The type 59 moneygrab... the recent changes to the tech-tree with OP tier 9&10 tanks and free xp sinks at tier 7 and/or 8... there are more examples. Personally I think the 13 57 is a rather small issue compared to other stuff WG pulls.


Edited by gunslingerXXX, 01 April 2018 - 07:03 PM.


Long_Range_Sniper #3 Posted 01 April 2018 - 07:06 PM

    General

  • Player
  • 32572 battles
  • 8,820
  • [-MM] -MM
  • Member since:
    04-04-2011

View PostD4wiD3K, on 01 April 2018 - 05:40 PM, said:

P.S. I'd also like to congratulate you for the secondary "april joke" of sneaking in 3000 gold into the cheapest package to inflate the price by 10€, then calling it the "Standard" package. You're such good April jokers today. Maybe we can have a few server crashes with no compensation next? It would be about as funny as this.

 

I have one, but it's quite boring to play. The headlights on the front are both different, and there's a small tube sticking out of the turret that's no use. I'd not recommend it at all, as it's been dragging my stats down for ages now.

 

Edit: Better to save your cash for the T92 black edition that's rumoured to be coming out in the future.


Edited by Long_Range_Sniper, 01 April 2018 - 07:07 PM.


Ivanta_Trump #4 Posted 01 April 2018 - 07:07 PM

    Private

  • Player
  • 13142 battles
  • 10
  • [BOSE] BOSE
  • Member since:
    10-30-2013
They just had the P II J on sale aswell didnt they? They dont give a f

blaster1112 #5 Posted 01 April 2018 - 07:08 PM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 10303 battles
  • 135
  • [RANGR] RANGR
  • Member since:
    09-02-2013

The reason people prefer the 13 57 over the defender is simple: a complete noob will still perform worse in this as in a Defender. If you can see it you can hurt it, so while it has a lot of clip potential simply hitting it is good enough to damage and kill it.

 

The defender however is much stronger due to its armor and high alpha gun, making it easy to damage higher tiered vehicles as wel. Even bad play can be rewarding for the team. This is much less the case in a light tank.

 

Other lights can still spot it. As can mediums. Sure it's powerful because it does have a good clip potential and it can miss a shot. But it requires at least some skill unlike the defender. Which is why people are ok with it.



MattieW #6 Posted 01 April 2018 - 07:10 PM

    Sergeant

  • Player
  • 13644 battles
  • 218
  • [SA_HB] SA_HB
  • Member since:
    10-11-2013

Stopped reading pretty quickly...

but I assume the complaint is OP...

Do you want to increase WG sales?  Because this is how you increase sales.



Malakhi75 #7 Posted 01 April 2018 - 07:16 PM

    Sergeant

  • Player
  • 24855 battles
  • 220
  • Member since:
    07-02-2011
13-57 is of concern....but it pales into insignificance vs Arty/tier8 MM/MM in general, balance at t10 and the research tree XP sinks for no apparent gain.

D4wiD3K #8 Posted 01 April 2018 - 07:18 PM

    Sergeant

  • Player
  • 659 battles
  • 276
  • Member since:
    08-11-2012

View Postblaster1112, on 01 April 2018 - 06:08 PM, said:

The reason people prefer the 13 57 over the defender is simple: a complete noob will still perform worse in this as in a Defender. If you can see it you can hurt it, so while it has a lot of clip potential simply hitting it is good enough to damage and kill it.

 

The defender however is much stronger due to its armor and high alpha gun, making it easy to damage higher tiered vehicles as wel. Even bad play can be rewarding for the team. This is much less the case in a light tank.

 

Other lights can still spot it. As can mediums. Sure it's powerful because it does have a good clip potential and it can miss a shot. But it requires at least some skill unlike the defender. Which is why people are ok with it.

 

The "bad plays" on the Defender are different from 13 57. In 13 57 the "bad play" isn't driving sideways through the open but making an awful yolo rush and clipping a lower tier tank and getting lucky. We've all been yoloed to death by an orange autoloader/T49 who is busy throwing his tank away only to see our teammates miss all the shots. This is the kind of bad play that 13 57 rewards and promotes. A tank doesn't need to have mountains of armor for it to be a disease.

 

I guess if a 46% player is your definition of "some skill", you're right. On a personal note for me a 46% player performing better with a light tank than his typical heavies and TDs is alarming and confirms how [edited]ing broken this tank is. Saying 13 57 take any meaningful skill whatsoever to play is just BS as I showed above. Of course it has a higher skill ceiling than the Defender but its skill floor is still extremely low.

 

If you consider a 50% player a skilled light tank player, that's up to you. They do however record 53% with this tank which is far too much.


Edited by D4wiD3K, 01 April 2018 - 07:21 PM.


LordMuffin #9 Posted 01 April 2018 - 07:19 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 48103 battles
  • 11,105
  • [-GLO-] -GLO-
  • Member since:
    06-21-2011
Yes, it is to good, just like Type 64, Type 62 and the other old premium lights of T5+

It was balanced around being 1 tier higher, and at that tier, only the black dog worked I guess, the Type 64 was OK and the 57 and 62 was underpowered.

Then all these tanks got a 1 tier better MM aswell as a buff to gun handling by 20% (possibility to mount v-stab).

Simeon85 #10 Posted 01 April 2018 - 07:21 PM

    Major

  • Player
  • 1097 battles
  • 2,999
  • Member since:
    04-19-2013

There is going to be less a sh*tstorm because ultimately it's a light and everything it faces can deal with it easily. A tier 6 sees a 57 it will get damage and it has 890 hit points, whereas a tier 7 is basically laughes at by a Defender and players can often feel helpless against tanks like that. 

 

Yes it's OP, but I am not really sure how for all those players considering it's a paper light in the current meta, I mean look at this -

 

Posted Image

 

Type 62 is sold often, not seen anyone complain about the Type 62 either but it's OP and on par with the 13-57 for most players.

 

I suspect in reality these WR curves more show the power of a good light tank crew on tier 7 against the majority of players who are grinding crews on tech tree tanks and where vision actually matters. I say this because the win rate curve of the T71 DA is much much lower than the Type 62, but the T71 is a much more powerful light than the Type 62, 


Edited by Simeon85, 01 April 2018 - 07:24 PM.


D4wiD3K #11 Posted 01 April 2018 - 07:22 PM

    Sergeant

  • Player
  • 659 battles
  • 276
  • Member since:
    08-11-2012

View PostLordMuffin, on 01 April 2018 - 06:19 PM, said:

Yes, it is to good, just like Type 64, Type 62 and the other old premium lights of T5+

It was balanced around being 1 tier higher, and at that tier, only the black dog worked I guess, the Type 64 was OK and the 57 and 62 was underpowered.

Then all these tanks got a 1 tier better MM aswell as a buff to gun handling by 20% (possibility to mount v-stab).

 

The worst part is that they also buffed the base stabilization of the 13 57 in the same patch. They basically downtiered it, gave it VStabs and then decided that's not OP enough and gave it a gun handling buff as well. :)
 

View PostSimeon85, on 01 April 2018 - 06:21 PM, said:

There is going to be less a sh*tstorm because ultimately it's a light and everything it faces can deal with it easily. A tier 6 sees a 57 it will get damage and it has 890 hit points, whereas a tier 7 is basically laughes at by a Defender and players can often feel helpless against tanks like that. 

 

Yes it's OP, but I am not really sure how for all those players considering it's a paper light in the current meta, I mean look at this -

 

Posted Image

 

Type 62 is sold often, not seen anyone complain about the Type 62 either but it's OP and on par with the 13-57 for most players.

 

I suspect in reality these WR curves more show the power of a good light tank crew on tier 7 against the majority of players who are grinding crews on tech tree tanks and where vision actually matters. 

 

I have noticed that for a good while already the tank curves have been bound to have bugs if you pick several tanks in one curve. I have yet to figure out what it does differently but I recommend using a separate curve for each tank. If you just pick Type 62 as a separate entry you'll get a very different result. Still a good tank but it's not nearly as good as 13 57.
 

Edited by Nohe21, 03 April 2018 - 08:33 AM.


WindSplitter1 #12 Posted 01 April 2018 - 07:25 PM

    Major

  • Player
  • 15938 battles
  • 2,560
  • [ORDEM] ORDEM
  • Member since:
    02-07-2016

Didn't bother reading.

 

But I bothered getting one for myself. And it's just how I wanted it: without the ugly WGL paint. :D

 

It was a good deal

 

Now I'm only missing the Cromwell B, Leafblower SPG and I'm golden.



eekeeboo #13 Posted 01 April 2018 - 07:25 PM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Beta Tester
  • 45318 battles
  • 331
  • [-DFA-] -DFA-
  • Member since:
    07-25-2010
It got buffed?! 

Simeon85 #14 Posted 01 April 2018 - 07:34 PM

    Major

  • Player
  • 1097 battles
  • 2,999
  • Member since:
    04-19-2013

View PostD4wiD3K, on 01 April 2018 - 07:24 PM, said:

 

I have noticed that for a good while already the tank curves have been bound to have bugs if you pick several tanks in one curve. I have yet to figure out what it does differently but I recommend using a separate curve for each tank. If you just pick Type 62 as a separate entry you'll get a very different result. Still a good tank but it's not nearly as good as 13 57.

 

Still over performing.

 

And the T71 DA is as good if not better than the 13-57, and that does not overperform. 

 

IMO it's the impact of crews having a big impact. 



LordMuffin #15 Posted 01 April 2018 - 07:43 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 48103 battles
  • 11,105
  • [-GLO-] -GLO-
  • Member since:
    06-21-2011

View PostSimeon85, on 01 April 2018 - 07:34 PM, said:

 

Still over performing.

 

And the T71 DA is as good if not better than the 13-57, and that does not overperform. 

 

IMO it's the impact of crews having a big impact. 

I would say that 57 > T71.

 

The 57 unleashes the clip 3 seconds faster (7 to 10) for 180 less damage.

Which is beneficial for the 57 imo.

The gunhandling of the 57 is better, and accuracy aswell. Pen is rather equal.

 

The T71 DA only have better mobility (higher hp/t and 3km/h top speed).

 

Viewrange is equal.

 

I also believe that 57 have higher camo.



L0ddy #16 Posted 01 April 2018 - 07:43 PM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 83947 battles
  • 2,469
  • [TWD] TWD
  • Member since:
    04-24-2011

So quit yer whining and buy one.

 

:facepalm:



D4wiD3K #17 Posted 01 April 2018 - 07:44 PM

    Sergeant

  • Player
  • 659 battles
  • 276
  • Member since:
    08-11-2012

View PostSimeon85, on 01 April 2018 - 06:34 PM, said:

 

Still over performing.

 

And the T71 DA is as good if not better than the 13-57, and that does not overperform. 

 

IMO it's the impact of crews having a big impact. 

 

The crews help a lot with light tanks, I am not denying that. That is part of the problem though, premium will always be fielding your best crew unless you're training a new one. Another important fact is that T71 is also a tech tree tank and suffers from the stock grind. I am still convinced the T71 isn't as good as the 13 57 because its camo and gun handling are much worse, but I am convinced it's better than the curves show and that it is indeed overpowered. 


I think if anything these things give much more reliable data about premium tanks and should be taken into consideration whenever balancing such tanks, and most importantly when deciding whether to re-sell them. If a tank is just steadily overperforming for everyone it shouldn't be sold even if it's partly down to the super crews and the lack of stock grinds. 

 

Premiums also tend to be more "permanent" than stock grinds because they make credits and can. They also get the XP multiplier which speeds up the crew training, and if you add personal reserves on top the crews train pretty quickly. The point is that anyone who plays 100ish games with his premium tank is bound to be able to put a pretty solid crew into it. This should be considered in the balancing department because it's inevitably the end result.


Edited by D4wiD3K, 01 April 2018 - 07:48 PM.


D4wiD3K #18 Posted 01 April 2018 - 07:45 PM

    Sergeant

  • Player
  • 659 battles
  • 276
  • Member since:
    08-11-2012

View PostL0ddy, on 01 April 2018 - 06:43 PM, said:

So quit yer whining and buy one.

 

:facepalm:

 

Yes, that solves everything. Buying a broken tank fixes it. Let's have a premium arty next, I can buy it and it won't be a problem at all right? :)

 

Makes perfect sense.



Emeraldweed #19 Posted 01 April 2018 - 07:49 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 10427 battles
  • 938
  • [-322-] -322-
  • Member since:
    05-14-2012

View PostD4wiD3K, on 01 April 2018 - 08:40 PM, said:

*lots of text and crying*

 

1357 is good, not OP but not bad either. Reasons for ''overperforming'' ?

 

People have this tank for years they know how to play it  and most of them are good players or grew to be good.

as mentioned above the recent buffs helped it in a big margin. 

 

Btw you forgot to mention the  crappy  ap pen that bounces on  sides of  jap heavies,  the rear of t-29s -t34s etc.

btw you forgot to mention the  low hp of modules  especially the engine and  ammo rack

btw you forgot to mention that T71s eat it for breakfast 

btw you forgot to mention that in can get rammed to death by prettty much every other light in existence

 

If you  didnt hide behind an alt account i would have checked if you have it or not. but i guess you don't. which suggests that you have no idea what you talk about unless you've driven it.



Emeraldweed #20 Posted 01 April 2018 - 07:50 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 10427 battles
  • 938
  • [-322-] -322-
  • Member since:
    05-14-2012

View PostLordMuffin, on 01 April 2018 - 09:43 PM, said:

I would say that 57 > T71.

 

The 57 unleashes the clip 3 seconds faster (7 to 10) for 180 less damage.

Which is beneficial for the 57 imo.

The gunhandling of the 57 is better, and accuracy aswell. Pen is rather equal.

 

The T71 DA only have better mobility (higher hp/t and 3km/h top speed).

 

Viewrange is equal.

 

I also believe that 57 have higher camo.

 

57 bounces on T71 front due to the angle, T71 doesnt. not no mention the lttb




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users