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Type 5 Heavy... AP GUN, hear me out.

type 5 heavy japan japanese HE premium ammo buff nerf

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MAJmufin #1 Posted 04 April 2018 - 12:10 PM

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So, we all know and hate the infamous type 5, it always rocks a HE derp.... because why would it go for AP?

 

The HE prem is indeed stupid but the AP gun itself also is kind of meh, so, what if, instead of nerfing the HE (although that is prefered too) they give the AP gun a tiny boost, in pen since its only at 249 atm and 282 with premium AP pen, I mean, give it a heat round or something, since the STB 1 also has those as premium rounds, the dmg on the AP gun is fine with me, a tasty 600 with a moderate reload. it shoulnd't get a reload buff since its already a steel brick, we don't want that to have S.conq gun stats. What I DO suggest is:

 

- give the standard AP round a tiny buff, its 249 atm, not great in a heavy line/lane

- switch the prem from 282 ap to HEAT. (on the STB1 it has 330 pen but idk how that will flow with a heavy)

 thats really it. 

I prefer the AP gun over the HE gun myself already but I feel its lacking in pen when facing equal tier opponents 

 

for any things I overlooked besides ''wow noob'' and ''kys'' comments, please note them below. I did not theory craft on this for 15hours+ , I just thought it might change the annoying and to me, boring HE spam type 5's.

 

Have a nice day



Nishi_Kinuyo #2 Posted 04 April 2018 - 12:21 PM

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Standard AP shell should be given a minor pen buff imo, to maybe 259?

Premium shell should remain AP because of one very simple reason:

Spoiler

It does, however need a penetration buff to maybe 300?

It also needs a handling/dispersion buff.



jack_timber #3 Posted 04 April 2018 - 12:23 PM

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Didn't realise it had AP thought it only had HE....

MAJmufin #4 Posted 04 April 2018 - 12:25 PM

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View PostNishi_Kinuyo, on 04 April 2018 - 12:21 PM, said:

Standard AP shell should be given a minor pen buff imo, to maybe 259?

Premium shell should remain AP because of one very simple reason:

Spoiler

It does, however need a penetration buff to maybe 300?

It also needs a handling/dispersion buff.

 

O yeah, I forgot about that, but .. I mean, the tank never existed, right? so, it wouldn't really be too far fetched to say it got modified. 

but yeah, even if they buff the premium AP to 300 its a lot more helpfull.



vasilinhorulezz #5 Posted 04 April 2018 - 12:27 PM

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View Postjack_timber, on 04 April 2018 - 12:23 PM, said:

Didn't realise it had AP thought it only had HE....

 

Type 5 can select between two guns.

Nishi_Kinuyo #6 Posted 04 April 2018 - 12:33 PM

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View PostMAJmufin, on 04 April 2018 - 12:25 PM, said:

 

O yeah, I forgot about that, but .. I mean, the tank never existed, right? so, it wouldn't really be too far fetched to say it got modified. 

but yeah, even if they buff the premium AP to 300 its a lot more helpfull.

"Never existed."

http://ftr.wot-news....-japanese-tank/

Soviet documents and drawings, and a photograph of two soviet solders with the turret in a static emplacement.

http://i58.tinypic.com/1t7onb.jpg

Note how the turret is shaped like those of other post 2600 Japanese tanks, and not like a naval turret or a turret designed for use in static emplacements.



leggasiini #7 Posted 04 April 2018 - 12:43 PM

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View PostMAJmufin, on 04 April 2018 - 01:25 PM, said:

 

O yeah, I forgot about that, but .. I mean, the tank never existed, right? so, it wouldn't really be too far fetched to say it got modified. 

 

The "Type 4" and "Type 5" super-heavy tanks were actually (most likely) real designs. However, the in-game Type 4/5 are partially fictional, due to the fact the hull design is inaccurate and the armor is likely much thicker than what it was probably meant to be. The turret was built and sent to Manchuria. The fate of possible hull is unknown, but I am personally in favor of idea of the hull never being built or at least not fully completed.

 

The turret of the Type 4 super-heavy tank, mounted on a stationary fortification

 

Then again, the penetration values of the 14 cm/50 3rd year type naval gun are not exactly accurate in-game either, anyway. Besides, the penetration has always been a balance parameter, so buffing it wouldn't be an issue at all.

 

I actually agree that the 14 cm AP gun needs a buff. They did not buff it when they overbuffed the Type 5 in 9.17.1, and the gun was the biggest reason why the tank was terrible before that patch. It still is absolute trash to the point where the derp gun with normal HE is arguably better - and the normal HE derp is around 35% worse than the gold HE derp, so go figure.

 

This is how the 14 cm gun should be buffed:

 

  • penetration increased from 249 / 282 to 258 / 300 (+9 / +18)

 

Among with the penetration buff, the 14 cm should receive one (only one) of these buffs:

 

  • accuracy to 0.37 or 0.38
  • dispersion on turret traverse
  • DPM by around 10%

 

 AP gun that was better than standard HE derp gun would indirectly decrease the amount of derp gun Type 5s, because those who cant afford full gold spam would run the 14 cm gun. Despite that, the derp gun should still be changed - the premium HE should be removed, the standard HE alpha also dropped to 950 - 1000, but rate of fire increased in return and addition of an AP shell with low penetration and 750 alpha to be used for overmatching engine decks and turret roofs. This way it becomes a low damage, somewhat consistent derp gun that does it's intentional role, I.E being able to do little damage anything in every situation and dig out tanks from sidescraping/hulldown positions, but it isn't very good at doing raw damage itself. This gives you an option for either a gun that is capable of doing pure damage, or a gun that doesn't do damage as well but helps your team by other means. Right now, not only the derp is capable of those things mentioned earlier, but it also is great at doing raw damage with premium HE spam - better than the 14 cm gun, rendering that gun atm absolutely worthless. That is the main issue with the current derp gun, IMO, as well as the obvious P2W on it.

 

I would prefer full removal of the derp gun, but that won't happen, so at least it should be made less broken and P2W.

 

View Postvasilinhorulezz, on 04 April 2018 - 01:27 PM, said:

 

Type 5 can select between two guns.
 

 

Indeed, it's just that one of the gun is one of the most broken guns in the entire tier, while the other one is one of the worst guns in the entire tier. I guess the choice is obvious.


Edited by leggasiini, 04 April 2018 - 12:49 PM.


K_A #8 Posted 04 April 2018 - 01:04 PM

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Also give the derp gun premium AP rounds instead of premium HE, much like the KV-2 has. That'd stop the gold spam.

Lord_Edge #9 Posted 04 April 2018 - 01:07 PM

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The AP gun on the T5H will always have the problem that when equipped the tank essentially becomes a bad E-100.

 

I don't really see any way around that as the HE gun is the only good thing about the tank.



lifelessgamer #10 Posted 04 April 2018 - 01:08 PM

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Remove the 14cm.  Give the 15cm  850 damage 250ap/330 heat pen, keep the 1100 damage HE and remove the premium HE.

_Sensation_ #11 Posted 04 April 2018 - 01:10 PM

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Why do the enemy type 5's which I encounter in battle never shoot AP :c

Nishi_Kinuyo #12 Posted 04 April 2018 - 01:38 PM

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View Postlifelessgamer, on 04 April 2018 - 01:08 PM, said:

Remove the 14cm.  Give the 15cm  850 damage 250ap/330 heat pen, keep the 1100 damage HE and remove the premium HE.

You want to remove its historical cannon in favour of one it never had, with an ammo type that was never designed for it either? :facepalm:



XxKuzkina_MatxX #13 Posted 04 April 2018 - 01:47 PM

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AP gun! now where is the comedy in that???

 

You see a light tank on the middle road while you are crossing into the town. The light gets spotted and hides behind the rock. You turn your magnificent turret and miss him for 750! :)

 

Westfield, the hull down tanks with 10 degrees of gun depression thinks: "aha, i am so smart i am gonna peek over the ridge and be invincible" and you say "nope!" and splash them for 500 in the face :)

 

Why would anyone play a tank this size to do anything else than that?


Edited by XxKuzkina_MatxX, 04 April 2018 - 01:52 PM.


hasnainrakha57 #14 Posted 04 April 2018 - 02:01 PM

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Edited  a type 5 is spmamming a 300mm gold and doing 600dmg other is spamming HE and doing 500 dmg.SO NO GOLD AMMO buff.

YES BUFF IT BUT REMOVE THE HE GUN FOR TYPE5 AND TYPE4!!

 

This post has been edited by the moderation team due to swearing. 


Edited by VMX, 05 April 2018 - 01:51 PM.


MAJmufin #15 Posted 04 April 2018 - 02:11 PM

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View Posthasnainrakha57, on 04 April 2018 - 02:01 PM, said:

Edited a type 5 is spmamming a 300mm gold and doing 600dmg other is spamming HE and doing 500 dmg.SO NO GOLD AMMO buff.

YES BUFF IT BUT REMOVE THE HE GUN FOR TYPE5 AND TYPE4!!

 

dismiss this one, no reasoning as to why and too many CAPS.

Edited by VMX, 05 April 2018 - 01:53 PM.


MattieW #16 Posted 04 April 2018 - 02:15 PM

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Why should it get more penn than an E100 for AP rounds?

Unless you plan to buff the E100 and perpetuate the buff cycle further?

No, I think just nerf the HE damage by 150 and leave it.



Dava_117 #17 Posted 04 April 2018 - 02:19 PM

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Have to say that I see a lot of Type4 using the 12.8 or 14cm gun. Type5, on the other hand, are HE only.

 

But I wouldn't buff pen of AP gun too much. Is meant to be midway between E100 15cm and Maus 12.8cm. 258 pen is too high for 600 alpha, especially on that platform.

250-252 at most should be enought. Gold pen to 295-300 and maybe increase softstat a bit.



MAJmufin #18 Posted 04 April 2018 - 02:38 PM

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but the E100 hits much harder AND that almost always shoots heat anyway.

leggasiini #19 Posted 04 April 2018 - 02:54 PM

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View PostDava_117, on 04 April 2018 - 03:19 PM, said:

Have to say that I see a lot of Type4 using the 12.8 or 14cm gun.

Could be because the XP grind to the derp is very long, as well as grinding the tank with derp and gold HE can get very expensive.



Lord_Edge #20 Posted 04 April 2018 - 04:49 PM

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View PostDava_117, on 04 April 2018 - 02:19 PM, said:

Have to say that I see a lot of Type4 using the 12.8 or 14cm gun. Type5, on the other hand, are HE only.

The type 4 is more likely to run into tanks it can pen with AP than the Type 5 is.

 

Depending on your playstyle the better reload/aiming/accuracy can work out better than the guaranteed HE damage, and if you're brawling with other HTs instead of one shotting LTs then it can result in higher damage games.






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