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Grille 15 - What did I do wrong?


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WindSplitter1 #1 Posted 06 April 2018 - 10:55 PM

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http://wotreplays.eu...2cc18d4bf1c64be

 

I just got it and made the highest damage ever in my account. Still lost though...

 

Perhaps... too passive? I was top tier.

 

I was hoping someone could tell me a few things, so as to improve a little.



dex_1950 #2 Posted 07 April 2018 - 12:22 AM

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You played Grille 15 instead of V4

Dragondeal #3 Posted 07 April 2018 - 02:02 AM

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Well, there are much more frustrating defeats possible, so I dont think you did nothing really wrong,

 

I got for example some "nice" defeats, where I also got an ace tanker.

 

ISU-152: TopTier, 6.6k dmg, 2 kills --> lost 4:15

M5A1 Stuart: Tier 6 Match, 1.8k dmg, 5 Kills, additional 1.1k spotting --> lost 8:14 base cap

Marder 38T: Tier 5 Match, 2k dmg, 4 kills --> lost 7:15

T150: Tier 7 Match, 2.6k dmg, 4 kills, additional 1k spotting --> lost 11:15

T150: TopTier, 2.6k dmg, 6 kills, additional 1,2k blocked --> lost 14:15

Tiger P: TopTier, 2.4k dmg, 6 kills, additional 2.2k blocked, additional 600 spotting --> lost 14:15

O-Ho: TopTier, 4.5k dmg, 5 kills, additional 2.9k blocked --> lost 10:15

Stug IV: Tier 5 Match, 1.7k dmg, 4 kills --> lost 14:15

Skoda T24: TopTier, 1.9k dmg, 5 kills --> lost 14:15

Pz IV H: Tier 6 Match, 2.3k dmg, 4 kills --> lost 14:15

St. Emil: TopTier, 3.5 dmg, 5 kills --> lost 9:15

Pz IV H: Tier 7 Match, 1.3k dmg, 6 kills --> lost 12:15

 

and "best"

 

wt4: TopTier, 8.5k dmg, 5 kills, additional 800 spotting --> lost 11:15



Hedgehog1963 #4 Posted 07 April 2018 - 02:50 AM

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Is this another "I played well and we lost so it must be the team" shitpost?

_Anarchistic_ #5 Posted 07 April 2018 - 03:26 AM

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View PostHedgehog1963, on 07 April 2018 - 02:50 AM, said:

Is this another "I played well and we lost so it must be the team" shitpost?

 

​why don't you watch the replay and offer some tips like the post asks instead of being an [edited]

WindSplitter1 #6 Posted 07 April 2018 - 03:30 AM

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View PostHedgehog1963, on 07 April 2018 - 01:50 AM, said:

Is this another "I played well and we lost so it must be the team" shitpost?

 

If had bothered yourself to watch it, you know.

Stats are public, by the way. So there's no need for bragging either. Besides, under no instance I put blame on my team, I asked what I did wrong. Because I want to improve.

 

With the current MM, it's every player for himself. Bringing something else to the table so as not to rely on it, especially as top tier, is the "adapt or die" condition.

 

So, no. Sorry to disappoint. Feel free to bring something meaningful though.

 

View Postdex_1950, on 06 April 2018 - 11:22 PM, said:

You played Grille 15 instead of V4

 

I'm confident I would have perished earlier.

 


Edited by WindSplitter1, 07 April 2018 - 03:33 AM.


Hedgehog1963 #7 Posted 07 April 2018 - 03:46 AM

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View PostWindSplitter1, on 07 April 2018 - 02:30 AM, said:

 

If had bothered yourself to watch it, you know.

Stats are public, by the way. So there's no need for bragging either. Besides, under no instance I put blame on my team, I asked what I did wrong. Because I want to improve.

 

 

No. You want to explain to people who don't care why our WR isn't as good as you think it should be.
 

View Post_Anarchistic_, on 07 April 2018 - 02:26 AM, said:

 

​why don't you watch the replay and offer some tips like the post asks instead of being an [edited]

 

Because I've been here for more than five minutes.
 

WindSplitter1 #8 Posted 07 April 2018 - 03:51 AM

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View PostHedgehog1963, on 07 April 2018 - 02:47 AM, said:

 

Because I've been here for more than five minutes.

 

Let's get some sleep then... and retake this at a more apropriate time. Good night.

 

View PostHedgehog1963, on 07 April 2018 - 02:46 AM, said:

 

No. You want to explain to people who don't care why our WR isn't as good as you think it should be.

 

I've read this and understood your words but your sentence makes no sense to me. Although I would question that if you don't care, why even bother with a reply?



XxKuzkina_MatxX #9 Posted 07 April 2018 - 04:25 AM

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You did very good, not sure i would've stayed up there after the flank collapsed but even then you handled yourself very well. Your arty in the end failed to focus the right target, 390 alpha good russian tier 9 med vs. 240 alpha german tier 8 POS. Focusing the badger was the right move but standing still after the shot cost you an unnecessary 500 hp. Now who **** it up for you and your team in this battle were your meds staying on the 0 line especially that patton.

 

A top tier med like the patton doing that is just a recipe for disaster. I am not sure what was he thinking (or not thinking) but form that positioning i bet his experience with higher tier game play is rather limited. A patton on the C2/C3 ridges is a king, not only he contributed to a defeat by sitting useless on the 0 line but he also didn't want any damage from that battle!!!

 

What i would've done different is relocating to the 0 line before the flank collapsed and continued to snipe from the treeline at C0/D0. It's your meds that lost this battle not you. Good luck and play the 268/4 :)


Edited by XxKuzkina_MatxX, 07 April 2018 - 04:30 AM.


Tipperty #10 Posted 07 April 2018 - 04:26 AM

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First you have to realise no matter what you did wrong or right, you will still get battles that you can't win. Despite what some people say, not every game or team can be carried.

 

As for your game, first, you didn't make very good use of the bushes when you took your first location and were spotted and were lucky not to get deleted from the game, by either the badge or the arty. When you relocated you made this same mistake again, but finally you got into a bush.

 

If we rewind it back to the start and you had gotten into a bush to begin with, you might have been able to put in 1 or 2 extra shots in that time it took to relocate, this "might" have allowed your side to win their flank.

 

The platoon of mediums kind of let the enemy dominate that flank. They sat back at G0 instead of pushing forward to K0, when you sit back at G0 all this does, is allow the enemy team to keep them locked down from the center ridge.

 

So over all, this is a team loss not a "you threw the game"!



LordMuffin #11 Posted 07 April 2018 - 07:12 AM

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View PostHedgehog1963, on 07 April 2018 - 02:50 AM, said:

Is this another "I played well and we lost so it must be the team" shitpost?

Did you even read the 5 rows long OP?

No you didn't, because if you did, you would know the answer to that question.


Edited by LordMuffin, 07 April 2018 - 07:13 AM.


LordMuffin #12 Posted 07 April 2018 - 07:42 AM

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Replay:

 

I don't think the first position you went to is any useful (A5 area), have tried it out in the Strv S1, and while the damage have been racked up, I don't feel I have any influence on the outcome from there. The damage is only from already lost battles more or less.

I like your 2nd position much more, though I would probably go more like C6 from the start in a TD, or the T30 position.

 

When you shoot the Badger for the first time, you are not in bush, and will obviously be spotted, also the Grille 15 have a rather long reload. so there is no reason to wait until the 6th sense light bulb is lit up before you back off. Just reverse right after shot, to minimize chance of being hit by the Badger. A possible save of on average 480 hp.

 

Otherwise I think the sniping is the correct move, you want to get as much damage into these enemy heavies as possible before they have killed your 2 tanks in the front there.

When the Ferdinand dies, and you have a T-44 and Obj430 down in the valley approaching your M48 Patton. I would ignore the Ferdinand and try to shoot these guys, preferably Obj 430 (1-shot in 50% of the cases), the goal is to save the Patton for as long as possible. Heavy side is lost, and there is quite some time before the enemies at that side will go forward and become a threat.

Instead of supporting these team mates, you wait in your bush and nothing happens, you are inactive (could have gotten 1 maybe 2 shots in at those tanks approaching your Patton).

You kill mod.1 good. Game is very winnable from here.

Though I dislike the move of going back to exact same position again, where you shoot T-44 from.

I would have prefered A5/A6 ditch.

By going back there, you get stuck in the same position, are permaspotted by the Panther 8.8, and you can't really do anything.

You had a chance to get away after the mod.1 kill, and should have done so. Got to some other non-obvious position preferably where you can set a trap and maybe kill the Panther 8.8 which later appeared above you.

I think this was your crucial mistake. If you had moved away, you would have had a very very good chance of winning that game.

As it turns out, the 466 hp you lost to the Badger in the beginning had no impact, but it could have had.

Also, I would suggest going for Binos instead of camo-net, since Binos is just the better option since it lets you spot enemies.

 

It was definitly winnable in the end.

 

 

I played this battle not to long ago.

 

In a different tank, but the situation are similar. 1 player against a few others.

It also comes with some explaining to my thought process in the end, could be worthwhile to watch replay and read, since I think there are a few things in there that could have helped you in this situation.

http://forum.worldof...8#entry15603038


Edited by LordMuffin, 07 April 2018 - 07:48 AM.


LordMuffin #13 Posted 07 April 2018 - 07:44 AM

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View PostTipperty, on 07 April 2018 - 04:26 AM, said:

First you have to realise no matter what you did wrong or right, you will still get battles that you can't win. Despite what some people say, not every game or team can be carried.

 

As for your game, first, you didn't make very good use of the bushes when you took your first location and were spotted and were lucky not to get deleted from the game, by either the badge or the arty. When you relocated you made this same mistake again, but finally you got into a bush.

 

If we rewind it back to the start and you had gotten into a bush to begin with, you might have been able to put in 1 or 2 extra shots in that time it took to relocate, this "might" have allowed your side to win their flank.

 

The platoon of mediums kind of let the enemy dominate that flank. They sat back at G0 instead of pushing forward to K0, when you sit back at G0 all this does, is allow the enemy team to keep them locked down from the center ridge.

 

So over all, this is a team loss not a "you threw the game"!

 

Except that his game was perfectly winnable in the end with correct play. And no, his starting position is bad, it only helps when the flank is more or less lost anyway.

He should have supported the medium side after the Ferdinand died.

He didn't threw the game, but the game was winnable the entire time all the way until he made a mistake in the end.



Tipperty #14 Posted 07 April 2018 - 08:34 AM

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View PostLordMuffin, on 07 April 2018 - 06:44 AM, said:

 

Except that his game was perfectly winnable in the end with correct play. And no, his starting position is bad, it only helps when the flank is more or less lost anyway.

He should have supported the medium side after the Ferdinand died.

He didn't threw the game, but the game was winnable the entire time all the way until he made a mistake in the end.

 

I was just pointing out what he did wrong, as in not using bushes correctly. Yes that starting position is not great and like you said the other position is alot stronger. but again he didn't use the bush correctly in the better position.

 

I am still struggling with my own gameplay and understanding of poistions, so it is not for me to point out like you did, what was the correct play, I was just trying to highlight what he did incorrectly and what some of his team did wrong. My other point was, not everything you do in a battle will result in a win, hence not every unicum has 100% WR and that he shouldn't get bogged down with disapointment when a game is a loss.

 

One thing that you did say, is one thing I sometimes struggle with and I am trying to remember, is repositioning. Once I have been A/ in a position too long or B/ when I have been spotted in a position. I get the "I don't want to take damage" mentality. Instead of taking 320 damage to move into a stronger location.



250swb #15 Posted 07 April 2018 - 08:38 AM

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I'd have blamed the team, there isn't a lot you can do if they give up the ghost and don't settle down for a slugging match. Your first position is generally for noobs, although on the new map there is a vee in the hill that points directly to the best position for an enemy TD on the other side of the map, so worth a look if they have a passive type TD on the team. But getting out of there quick and/or starting at your second position is best. The second position gives you many options but I would have been keen to finish that flank off and advance into the village to look across to the opposite hill. Unfortunately that wasn't an option and the enemy by then all knew where you were. I agree the game was possibly winnable but for one crucial hit you took, but it's only a theory and not a certainty.

 

It's just a game you lost, and even though you did well it was largely because the enemy were emboldened to yolo forward because your team was disintegrating. 



LordMuffin #16 Posted 07 April 2018 - 08:42 AM

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View Post250swb, on 07 April 2018 - 08:38 AM, said:

I'd have blamed the team, there isn't a lot you can do if they give up the ghost and don't settle down for a slugging match. Your first position is generally for noobs, although on the new map there is a vee in the hill that points directly to the best position for an enemy TD on the other side of the map, so worth a look if they have a passive type TD on the team. But getting out of there quick and/or starting at your second position is best. The second position gives you many options but I would have been keen to finish that flank off and advance into the village to look across to the opposite hill. Unfortunately that wasn't an option and the enemy by then all knew where you were. I agree the game was possibly winnable but for one crucial hit you took, but it's only a theory and not a certainty.

 

It's just a game you lost, and even though you did well it was largely because the enemy were emboldened to yolo forward because your team was disintegrating. 

 

His team was average, and the game was winnable in the end, even in the him and 2-3 arty against 3 tank scenario.

 

He did well in the middle parts, but bad in the latter parts of the battle.

 

It is not his teams fault that he misplay in the end.



XxKuzkina_MatxX #17 Posted 07 April 2018 - 10:53 AM

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View PostLordMuffin, on 07 April 2018 - 08:42 AM, said:

When the Ferdinand dies, and you have a T-44 and Obj430 down in the valley approaching your M48 Patton. I would ignore the Ferdinand and try to shoot these guys, preferably Obj 430 (1-shot in 50% of the cases), the goal is to save the Patton for as long as possible.

 

A long range shot into the 430 through the bridge is questionable. In addition it won't save the patton since the T44 is the one killed him which was full hp and i really won't bother saving a clown like that. Moving across the field was the correct move as you mentioned but it was also chancy with two arta in play.

Flicka #18 Posted 07 April 2018 - 11:07 AM

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Some small decision making mistakes like most of them mentioned, I'll just say there is a spot on A5 or A4, not sure, where you can go unspoted behind bushes and keep the A line quite controlled, especially if they push inside that hill cluster, it was next to the lowe. But you did good, it was just another one of those games.

WindSplitter1 #19 Posted 07 April 2018 - 01:08 PM

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Okay. Thank you so much for your replies. :)

LordMuffin #20 Posted 07 April 2018 - 01:14 PM

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View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 07 April 2018 - 10:53 AM, said:

 

A long range shot into the 430 through the bridge is questionable. In addition it won't save the patton since the T44 is the one killed him which was full hp and i really won't bother saving a clown like that. Moving across the field was the correct move as you mentioned but it was also chancy with two arta in play.

The shot is possible, and it is definitely worth it. Since it can turn the battle into an easier win.






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