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Change the japanese Type4/5 unfairness.


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iraqxlol #1 Posted 07 April 2018 - 06:14 AM

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Hello.

As you might know, Japanese type 4/5 are annoying to go against, Once you go against em you will get damaged.

However, They are also annoying to those who drive them, You see WG did a horrible job of buffing them, Which leads us to the point.

But first, I'm an average player and I only have Japanese tanks tier 7 chi-RI and type 4, Not saying I'm the best player.

And also I don't use derp gun on Type 4, I've found that using 14 Cm is much better as long as I have enough patience and good aim.

 

First.

Type 4/5 14 CM Cannon.

This canon (For me) for the type 4 (Don't have type 5 yet 36k away from it tho), IS THE BEST cannon I've used in my life with Type 4 heavy, I had stomach pain every time i use the derp. So it is quite neat on the type 4 heavy.

 

However, Considering that type 5 is higher in level Yet dpm compared to other heavys of that sort is horrible, I believe it is the least one.

 

Second thing.

The Derp the weapon of unfairness and horrible balance, It is horrible for me in type 4. Why is it horrible you say?

I'm using type 4 and I NEVER used gold rounds max I carry is 4 with my 14 cm, This thing has 2 things, You either go gold or go home, This is why there is a problem you see. For those who doesn't have/Doesnt want to use gold Like me Suffer having h horrible cannon.

I deal 300-400 damage to Maus ( I shouldn't compare tier 9 to tier 10 right?) WRONG, type 5 has the same cannon and the same thing, without gold Maus will out dpm me in short time, Considering the reload is longer for less damage is painful.

 

What I want or at least what's better? (Not asking for buff but asking for change)

For Type 4 keep it with no change.

For type 5 (Which again i don't have)

1-Change 14cm.

This is good except gold rounds even if I carry only 4 of them and almost never used them unless to scare people who are higher then me in tier and armor. Maybe around 300 should do (Like light tanks, Get it? Because some of the light tanks have more penetration.)

 

2-Change the bloody derp gun.nese heavies always had high alpha damage regardless of the penetration.

This thing is horrible once you don't use gold, it is pain and useless with alpha damage of tier 7 tank.

It should have an AP round, The AP (Because reload time is horrible) should deal around 750 alpha damage with 3.03 reload is quite neat (Even tho American heavies have better).

 

Overall.

Give AP standard round to the derp gun of type 5 ONLY. And decrease the unfairness of gold HE for those who against type 5 and type 5 itself.

Penetration of derp AP would be around.

250-270mm, Why you say?

This thing has a low rate of fire with 0,4 accuracy and 2.9? aim time. Have a lot of penetration indeed is, But accuracy would decrease overall penetration right? And people can still use their standard HE and pay to win HE.

 

best regards.

 

 

 



Tipperty #2 Posted 07 April 2018 - 06:25 AM

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The tank will never be removed, people more or less have to fire premium at them, and so need to use premium time and/or premium tanks to farm credits. win win for WG, so it is, as far as they care, good for them and their buisness.

 

Does it break the game, maybe a little. I mean don't get me wrong, I would love to see the derp removed, but they won't remove it.



iraqxlol #3 Posted 10 April 2018 - 06:16 AM

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View PostTipperty, on 07 April 2018 - 06:25 AM, said:

The tank will never be removed, people more or less have to fire premium at them, and so need to use premium time and/or premium tanks to farm credits. win win for WG, so it is, as far as they care, good for them and their buisness.

 

Does it break the game, maybe a little. I mean don't get me wrong, I would love to see the derp removed, but they won't remove it.

 

I didn't say remove it tho.

What I think is they should turn it cannon into canon like E100.

1-Give AP with penetration 249 (Same as old)

2-REMOVE premium HE and added AP with 282. why?

Because Japan tanks are known being derps, But instead of having pay 2 win rounds, Give it high alpha damage.

900-800, Because the gold round has weak penetration and Standard isnt good as well as having horrible accuracy.

Basically, stats should be like this.

 

Penetration: 249/282/75 (Same as 14 cm)

Rounds: AP/AP/HE.

Dispersion: 0.42 (buffed because not HE derp anymore.

Aimtime: 2.9 (Same)

Damage: 900-800 (800 better so it is not power creep (Also don't forget about aim time and accuracy.

Rate of fire:  3

 


Edited by iraqxlol, 10 April 2018 - 06:18 AM.


Junglist_ #4 Posted 10 April 2018 - 06:24 AM

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Complaining about retarded Type 5s and their [edited]derp guns is so 2017. It's all about the 268v4 now.

Aka how to reduce the amount of people complaining about 1 totally broken tank without altering it? Release one that's even more broken.



iraqxlol #5 Posted 10 April 2018 - 06:44 AM

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View PostJunglist_, on 10 April 2018 - 06:24 AM, said:

Complaining about retarded Type 5s and their [edited]derp guns is so 2017. It's all about the 268v4 now.

Aka how to reduce the amount of people complaining about 1 totally broken tank without altering it? Release one that's even more broken.

 

  Actually, I have Type 4/5 and it is horrible to face another one.

Imagen you are IS-7 hull down, turret with 300-400 armor, And type 4/5 derps you with 400-600 damage when he shouldn't even pen you.

Also.

V4  is indeed a problem, But it can't pen you when it shouldn't and why should we ignore a problem with another problem?

You see Japanese derps always had AP round and high alpha damage for their tier But low penetration AP.



Lentomies1 #6 Posted 10 April 2018 - 09:48 AM

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WG won't remove the Type 4/5 heavys or their derps, because these tanks are difficult to play
-WG 2017

Xandania #7 Posted 10 April 2018 - 10:06 AM

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Did I miss something? If I remember correctly from my garage, than the Type 4 & 5 feature a different derp gun with a higher potential damage.

NoobySkooby #8 Posted 10 April 2018 - 10:11 AM

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Hmm I am on the slow grind to a type 4, and what bother me is tha fact that with 01 exp, the derp gun reload time is 8.9 seconds, the next tier up it is 22 seconds, why is this? The tanks supposedly were to have been used as breakthrough tanks or coastal defence, for that reason alone you would not want a pew pew gun on them but a gun more suited to a battleship.

 

Who does not love a good old bit of derpyness from time to time, although if I ever get to the type 4, that is as afar as I will go on that line.



Agent_327 #9 Posted 10 April 2018 - 10:24 AM

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Well I kinda like them. Yes they are pretty troll when you face a Type 4 in your Tier 7 alone but they are so slow that you have to be blind or very unlucky to run into one alone. And their armor is not worth much on tier 9-10. I like that you have to aim your HE in a different way than AP to be successful with it. -Yes everybody can do damage but to do a lot of damage you have to aim places you would never do in another tank. They offer a completely different play style than the other tanks have. Unfortunately am I still stock with my Type 4 so no derpy-derp for me yet.

 

They are kinda like arty in that they are no problem if you think while you play against them. But a huge one if you don't.

 

But yes it would maybe be more correct if they had a minuscule weak point at the drivers hatch or something but besides that they are quite fine IMO.


Edited by Agent_327, 10 April 2018 - 10:26 AM.


Noo_Noo #10 Posted 10 April 2018 - 10:49 AM

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View PostLentomies1, on 10 April 2018 - 09:48 AM, said:

WG won't remove the Type 4/5 heavys or their derps, because these tanks are difficult to play
-WG 2017

 

Pardon?

djuro900 #11 Posted 10 April 2018 - 10:52 AM

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View PostNoo_Noo, on 10 April 2018 - 09:49 AM, said:

 

Pardon?

 

Thats what wg devs said in q&a. That types are hard to play :)


Edited by djuro900, 10 April 2018 - 10:52 AM.


Noo_Noo #12 Posted 10 April 2018 - 11:11 AM

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View Postdjuro900, on 10 April 2018 - 10:52 AM, said:

 

Thats what wg devs said in q&a. That types are hard to play :)

 

Wow. 

 

Many thoughts have sprung to mind right now. None of which are complimentary.



Thejagdpanther #13 Posted 10 April 2018 - 11:26 AM

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View Postiraqxlol, on 10 April 2018 - 06:44 AM, said:

Imagen you are IS-7 hull down, turret with 300-400 armor, And type 4/5 derps you with 400-600 damage when he shouldn't even pen you.

 

You pen it everytime with gold, he damage you everytime with HE.

So?

It's the perfect counterpart for the porkproof soviet turrets.



Balc0ra #14 Posted 10 April 2018 - 11:57 AM

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View Postiraqxlol, on 07 April 2018 - 06:14 AM, said:

First.

Type 4/5 14 CM Cannon.

This canon (For me) for the type 4 (Don't have type 5 yet 36k away from it tho), IS THE BEST cannon I've used in my life with Type 4 heavy, I had stomach pain every time i use the derp. So it is quite neat on the type 4 heavy.

 

 

You must be the only one who feels that way. Jap HT's are a pain because their AP guns from tier 7 and up are terrible vs other super heavies. And not appealing to use over even the O-I derp on tier 8 if you want to reliably do damage. The tier 8 AP gun did not even have gold ammo at one point. No one wanted to grind it with 215 AP pen vs E100's. So it was better to mount the tier 6 derp and do 100 damage to it vs bouncing 24/7. 

 

And if I did meet a Type 4 running the 14cm. I would get in his face. As if he aimed low, he would not even pen 1 out 5 shots most times. And my derp just ate him away. As he had a 28% chance to pen my hull even at a slight angle. Or 45% on the cupola. But if the shot went even a tiny bit off the center. It dropped to a 9% chance in an instance. So I'm amazed you get by with 4 gold rounds and still make it work.

 

 

View Postiraqxlol, on 07 April 2018 - 06:14 AM, said:

2-Change the bloody derp gun.nese heavies always had high alpha damage regardless of the penetration.

 

If anything they need to make the AP guns more appealing, especially on the tier 7/8. Making the derp less appealing won't fix it tbh.  As you are the only one I've seen saying the 14cm is the better option. But I'm sure 99.9999999% of the Type 4 drivers would still run derp even if they nerfed it. As it's reliable damage either way. Be that if they "only" do 200 damage pr shot, or even 50. It's still better then bouncing on 28% chance shots all the time on the HT line. Even more so with tier X TD's with 300+ mm of effective armor on the lower plate.

 

 

 


Edited by Balc0ra, 10 April 2018 - 11:58 AM.


iraqxlol #15 Posted 10 April 2018 - 05:15 PM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 10 April 2018 - 11:57 AM, said:

 

You must be the only one who feels that way. Jap HT's are a pain because their AP guns from tier 7 and up are terrible vs other super heavies. And not appealing to use over even the O-I derp on tier 8 if you want to reliably do damage. The tier 8 AP gun did not even have gold ammo at one point. No one wanted to grind it with 215 AP pen vs E100's. So it was better to mount the tier 6 derp and do 100 damage to it vs bouncing 24/7. 

 

And if I did meet a Type 4 running the 14cm. I would get in his face. As if he aimed low, he would not even pen 1 out 5 shots most times. And my derp just ate him away. As he had a 28% chance to pen my hull even at a slight angle. Or 45% on the cupola. But if the shot went even a tiny bit off the center. It dropped to a 9% chance in an instance. So I'm amazed you get by with 4 gold rounds and still make it work.

 

 

 

If anything they need to make the AP guns more appealing, especially on the tier 7/8. Making the derp less appealing won't fix it tbh.  As you are the only one I've seen saying the 14cm is the better option. But I'm sure 99.9999999% of the Type 4 drivers would still run derp even if they nerfed it. As it's reliable damage either way. Be that if they "only" do 200 damage pr shot, or even 50. It's still better then bouncing on 28% chance shots all the time on the HT line. Even more so with tier X TD's with 300+ mm of effective armor on the lower plate.

 

 

 

 

Well, first 200-300 games of my Type 4 I deleted the game twice, After that somehow I got good with the AP, not sure how but yeah.

Also, people are misunderstanding my point, I didn't say remove the cannon just the premium HE and added Gold ap and standard Ap.

The thing is, Japanese derps always had AP, and the AP normally low penetration for both gold and standard BUT  they have high alpha damage when penetrate.

 

The overall point is.

Give AP for the derp and keep others unchanged. 

but gold HE keep it or not I really have no issue, But cannon has only 2 maybe added third? it won't hurt you know.

 

 

Back to your topic.

14 cm is more reliable for me, if i saw some tank that i can't pen i normally back away and try to bait him and not push unless either top tier or having flank secured, also i almost 1 hour to 30 minutes looking at tanks weakspots at tank.gg website, So I learend alot of weak spots here and there, Most of my games with type 4 (last 100+) I almost get 2k+ damage (higher than avarage type 4). for someone who is at 2k battles that fine. 

Overall, I'm surprised I'm doing that much damage with AP, but I need a cannon that has high alpha damage with some reliability to it, 600 is good but for the reload and accuracy it is meh.

While American TK has 155 that deal 750 but is quite accurate with loads of penetration, German e100 with someone fine accuracy and high penetrating HEAT round I say 750-900 for derp AP is a sweet spot. Remember low penetrating AP with horrible accuracy is going to have horrible DPM.


Edited by iraqxlol, 10 April 2018 - 05:26 PM.





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