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Heavy tanks getting shot before reaching any position

doesnt happen fantasy l2pissue

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Ryn1k #1 Posted 08 April 2018 - 07:30 AM

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https://youtu.be/jIvMBNgQdjo
 

Includes a longer, previously recommended route being taken (previous thread), and the only possible route being taken in another example (destinations: designated heavy brawling areas).

 

It happens, it's not an l2p issue, have fun accepting this fact. You play slow heavy tanks; in this game you get shot before you reach any position. Just the way it is, and I still thinks it's some really crappy design.

I'll enjoy the fantasy based counter-arguments that follow (already tested with another thread that it indeed doesn't matter what is being posted, bickering follows). HF.

Disclaimer:

The following text includes an accurate prediction of what follows, or would follow, without this disclaimer (no one likes being predictable, but even that is predictable). In the last thread, people were Edited for a replay, now that they get undeniable proof they will try to find some other way to squirm around the fact heavy tanks just plain get shot on many maps without not much to be done about it before reaching a designated position even if you start driving right away.

Let's all enjoy ourselves while watching the apologists spewing their predictable stuff. :playing: 

Earth is flat yo, believe.

 

This post has been edited by the moderation team due to inappropriate remarks. 


Edited by VMX, 08 April 2018 - 02:21 PM.


Stohne #2 Posted 08 April 2018 - 07:48 AM

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It is an l2p issue.

 

If you don't know how view range works, you should google it.

 

You are not hugging the redline.

Yes, you can still get spotted by an yolo scout, but then you have a house to take cover behind. And wait until you are not spotted anymore.

When I play FB, I specifically tell the heavies:

"HUG THE REDLINE OR YOU DIE!"

Those who die, oh well.

But most hug the redline and live.

When I spot on FB, I can most of the time spot all their heavies safely. And then it's a farm fest. Those who don't learn to hug the redline deserve to die over and over and over until they learn. Or I'll just take the free damage and say thank you.

So yeah.

L2P.


Edited by Stohne, 08 April 2018 - 07:51 AM.


Ryn1k #3 Posted 08 April 2018 - 07:51 AM

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View PostStohne, on 08 April 2018 - 07:48 AM, said:

It is an l2p issue.

 

If you don't know how view range works, you should google it.

 

You are not hugging the redline.

Yes, you can still get spotted by an yolo scout, but then you have a house to take cover behind. And wait until you are not spotted anymore.

When I play FB, I specifically tell the heavies:

"HUG THE BLIMEY REDLINE OR YOU DIE!"

Those who die, oh well.

But most hug the redline and live.

 

And what about Arctic Region bottom; if you hug the cliff edge (water at bottom, cant hug the redline per say) you take so long to reach the corridor that enemy heavies will be in position (peeking the corner) and shoot you. If you don't take the longer route, you will get shot by the TD's camping the east spawn TD ledge.

Neither works.

Also please do tell how to hug the red line in the latter video when the only access to the other side is the ledge. I get shot 2 seconds after leaving the ledge, and get spotted while on top of it. There is no way to avoid that, and repeating L2P blindly while ignoring the facts doesn't make it any more avoidable.


It's bad design. It's annoying. It takes away at one of the advantages of a heavy tank before the game even properly begins: HP. It happens, as indicated by the video and multiple users agreeing that it happens.


Why do I even bother. I'm right.


Edited by Ryn1k, 08 April 2018 - 07:58 AM.


Stohne #4 Posted 08 April 2018 - 08:01 AM

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View PostRyn1k, on 08 April 2018 - 07:51 AM, said:

 

And what about Arctic Region bottom; if you hug the cliff edge (water at bottom, cant hug the redline per say) you take so long to reach the corridor that enemy heavies will be in position. If you don't take the longer route, you will get shot by the TD's camping the east spawn TD ledge.

Neither works.

Also please do tell how to hug the red line in the latter video when the only access to the other side is the ledge.

 

On Prokh it's a matter of sending a scout to the village and you spot all their heavies cresting the rails.

What do I do on Prokh in a heavy?

I stay back a bit. And see who gets spotted or if a scout is spotted in village.

 

Also they are cresting in the "natural spot". You can cross behind that and be safer.

Don't blame the map if you are too lazy to take caution.

Done.

On Artic Region it's harder. Admittedly. If there is arty on the map someone might take a hit. Big deal. What makes you think every map is guaranteed safe passage for heavies? It's no fun? Well it's not fun to play paper td on city maps either. Yet they do.

A lot of it is up to your scouts as well. If they are crap, you suffer. That is the way it works.


I'd like a decent sniping position on Himmelsdorf or Ensk. There are none. You don't hear me crying about it.

Arties & paper td's feel pretty useless on city maps, but they still are forced to play them.

So I have no sympathy for your complaints.

Since you managed to avoid my previous answer completely, I think we are done here.

Whataboutery doesn't interest me at all.


Edited by Stohne, 08 April 2018 - 08:02 AM.


LordMuffin #5 Posted 08 April 2018 - 08:15 AM

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View PostRyn1k, on 08 April 2018 - 07:30 AM, said:

https://youtu.be/jIvMBNgQdjo
 

Includes a longer, previously recommended route being taken (previous thread), and the only possible route being taken in another example (destinations: designated heavy brawling areas).

 

It happens, it's not an l2p issue, have fun accepting this fact. You play slow heavy tanks; in this game you get shot before you reach any position. Just the way it is, and I still thinks it's some really crappy design.

I'll enjoy the fantasy based counter-arguments that follow (already tested with another thread that it indeed doesn't matter what is being posted, bickering follows). HF.

Disclaimer:

The following text includes an accurate prediction of what follows, or would follow, without this disclaimer (no one likes being predictable, but even that is predictable). In the last thread, people were Edited for a replay, now that they get undeniable proof they will try to find some other way to squirm around the fact heavy tanks just plain get shot on many maps without not much to be done about it before reaching a designated position even if you start driving right away.

Let's all enjoy ourselves while watching the apologists spewing their predictable stuff. :playing: 

Earth is flat yo, believe.

First part of video, you are still to close to the enemy sniping bushes. There are huge amount of space to use to get city safely, like your JgPzE100.

2nd one is also avoidable if you cross further down.

 

 

But I am happy player like you exist, because they make early spotting and early damage a possibility.


Edited by VMX, 08 April 2018 - 02:26 PM.


250swb #6 Posted 08 April 2018 - 08:27 AM

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On Fishermans Bay there is the low red line hugging ridge line to drive behind to get to the town, but did the OP use it all the way, of course not, he drove out into the open before he got into town! Second on Prok how many times are the enemy going to get into that position so soon after spawn, hardly ever, so making a case for some broken aspect of the game against the possibilities that make the game interesting is just being mardy. On Prok having bad luck shows that it is also possible to have good luck, as the enemy did. On Fishermans Bay having map awareness makes up for getting tracked and dying like a fool.

Edited by 250swb, 08 April 2018 - 08:33 AM.


Ryn1k #7 Posted 08 April 2018 - 08:33 AM

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View PostStohne, on 08 April 2018 - 08:01 AM, said:

 I think we are done here.

 


Indeed we are: your view is clearly (as indicated by your city map comment) that maps that are Edited to some tanks just exist, can't be helped. And that's where we differ. You are satisfied with crapmap design, I am not.

 

View PostLordMuffin, on 08 April 2018 - 08:15 AM, said:

First part of video, you are still to close to the enemy sniping bushes. There are huge amount of space to use to get city safely, like your JgPzE100.

2nd one is also avoidable if you cross further down.

 

 

But I am happy player like you exist, because they make early spotting and early damage a possibility.


Coulda shoulda woulda, yadda yadda. The map is clearly designed for tanks to cross there, unfortunately they also decided to make it so you get shot before leaving spawn. It's the developers error, not the people utilizing the clearly indicated routes.

A mate of mine who has played the game since launch said this didn't used to be the case, and said something about powercreep and even powerful assassins being too fast these days. Don't know, but I guess it could be plausible.

WG is happy players like you exist, they can get away with substandard designs and you'll howl at the moon.


This post has been edited by the moderation team due to swearing. 

Edited by VMX, 08 April 2018 - 02:30 PM.


Jigabachi #8 Posted 08 April 2018 - 08:40 AM

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Sooo... Instead of simply trying a more mature approach with the second thread, most of this thread is about how people dared to disagree with you in the first one.
And I didn't read all the comments in the first thread, but I'm almost entirely sure that noone denied that "this" doesn't happen. ("This" meaning that sometimes you get shot on your way to your flank when you are in a slow tank and not taking a proper route. What you claimed in your first thread was a tiny bit different.)

But in the vast majority of cases it happens because the fast tank secured a good position in time while the slow tank didn't pick a more save route to his desired location. Besides that, both tanks would have survived the ambush with ease. The first one just stopped for no reason.

Edited by Jigabachi, 08 April 2018 - 08:44 AM.


RaxipIx #9 Posted 08 April 2018 - 08:49 AM

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Also please explain to me when the SS appears why you stop there in the open and let everyone farm you? You could have taken one shot keep moving up to the house and still have a chance of a decent game.

 

But you stop in the middle of nowhere perpendicular to the bushes so  you get wrecked.

 

View PostRyn1k, on 08 April 2018 - 08:36 AM, said:


Coulda shoulda woulda, yadda yadda. The map is clearly designed for tanks to cross there, unfortunately they also decided to make it so you get shot before leaving spawn. It's the developers error, not the people utilizing the clearly indicated routes.

A mate of mine who has played the game since launch said this didn't used to be the case, and said something about powercreep and even powerful assassins being too fast these days. Don't know, but I guess it could be plausible.

WG is happy players like you exist, they can get away with substandard designs and you'll howl at the moon.

 

Crossing like that in the old version of the map could still mean you lose most of the HP you have, IF a decent  fast autoloader was on the enemy team and took up a position. Like a BC 25 T, i  used to abuse that position every time i got FB  in the BC 25 T or  a fast LT, and most of the timed pumped out  the first clip in the first person who crossed  badly.
 

Eaglax #10 Posted 08 April 2018 - 09:27 AM

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View PostRyn1k, on 08 April 2018 - 07:30 AM, said:

https://youtu.be/jIvMBNgQdjo
 

Includes a longer, previously recommended route being taken (previous thread)

 

nope it doesn't...you didn't take the longer route. And maybe you wanna learn what the circles on the minimap mean, and the common scouting bushes, maybe then you will understand what you are doing wrong.

 

for your 2nd example, that's just unfortunately. I don't even remember the last time I got shot there.... besides I would guess that the Lorr. was punished for it.

 

 

it's rather pointless trying to discuss anything further, as your "disclaimer" shows: you are convinced that you, and only you with 1k battles, is right. Everyone else has no clue what they are talking about.

As you clearly don't want to take any advice or care for a simple explanation and you are so fed up with it, why don't you just stop playing?



Enterprise_NCC1701A #11 Posted 08 April 2018 - 09:32 AM

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On 1st map, most guys are right you should cross in a wider route to avoid detection from middle area. you should spend more time, it is obvious, but there is not another way, i think... On 2nd map, the road that almost everybody takes to hill is unfortunately a wg's stupid design as every artillery pre-aims at and all lights scout that passage from distance (middle or village). Try the passage at the end or the rails, red line practically, if you have all the horsepower necessary. I'd say 1st one was your error + agile scout in enemy team (spotting from perfect spot in middle), 2nd is wg stupid map design! But you have to consider that in himmelsdorf lights and arty are useless and you have to press only LMB and W... I'd suggest you watching in youtube some videos with lights spotting tactics, they can reveal the positions to avoid if you don't want to be spotted! Good morning from athens, greece!

250swb #12 Posted 08 April 2018 - 09:34 AM

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View PostRyn1k, on 08 April 2018 - 07:33 AM, said:


You are satisfied with crapmap design, I am not.

 

There are some bad maps, but you are asking for the innate right for a heavy tank to get to its start position without jeopardy. So why not also argue for the right of a light tank to get to their favourite bush without getting hit? It's the variability and possibilities that make the game interesting, not a 'play-by-numbers' approach.

 

Edit: I think it's clear nearly everybody who has replied to you would learn something from each and every example you make, either 'I'll remember that good sniping position', or 'I'll not do that again in a hurry', but instead you want the game altered. 


Edited by 250swb, 08 April 2018 - 09:42 AM.


Mimos_A #13 Posted 08 April 2018 - 09:34 AM

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The first clip is a definite l2p issue. You drive way too close to the bushes, it's super easy to just drive a couple of meters back and be safe (like several of your teammates). Then, for some reason that is absolutely beyond me, you just stop when you get shot and sit there. Even though you made a lazy mistake you could have made it taking only one shot, but you decide to end your game right there... Doesn't get much more l2p than that.


Prokh is unfortunate, the guy got in a good position fast, you didn't get over fast enough, these things happen. It's a bit silly you can get spotted so early there. Then again, in a slow-ish tank I probably wouldn't even try to cross there if I don't have a good spawn for it.


Edited by Mimos_A, 08 April 2018 - 09:35 AM.


unhappy_bunny #14 Posted 08 April 2018 - 09:35 AM

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View PostRyn1k, on 08 April 2018 - 08:36 AM, said:


Coulda shoulda woulda, yadda yadda. The map is clearly designed for tanks to cross there, unfortunately they also decided to make it so you get shot before leaving spawn. It's the developers error, not the people utilizing the clearly indicated routes. Of course you are going to suffer if you have this fixation that the map is designed with an obvious route and that is the only route you are going to use. Also, when you are spotted continuing on your way, or standing still, is also going bring grief. 


A mate of mine who has played the game since launch said this didn't used to be the case, and said something about powercreep and even powerful assassins being too fast these days. Don't know, but I guess it could be plausible. Your mate might be right. If he is, then that means you need to adapt your play, be more cautious, find an alternative route. Or try something less predictable.

WG is happy players like you exist, they can get away with substandard designs and you'll howl at the moon.

 I have question for you.

On Fisherman Bay, if you start the other side and go to town, do you ever meet enemy slow heavies that have got there without damage? 


Edited by unhappy_bunny, 08 April 2018 - 09:39 AM.


Rati_Festa #15 Posted 08 April 2018 - 09:37 AM

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Fishermens bay and Erlinberg both now have these old "more" deadly routes for slower tanks. I haven't played a heavy on either of them but it does look tougher. The design has changed worse for slow heavies, better for meds and faster tds.

Is this wg trying to balance out the heavy tank meta?

Is this them just designing badly? Perhaps if u consider glacier then it may be the former.

And conversely they have made fjords terrible for fast meds and better for heavy campers.

I think its more a problem of relearning how to play maps that have been completely redesigned. The 3 mentioned might as well be brand new maps, the mini maps may look the same but the actual terrain is vastly different causing the farming spots.

It is essentially a l2p issue though with a twist as u need to erase how u used to play the "same" map.

Op u asked a question twice.. the community answered twice.. accept and move on, getting angry about it isnt solving anything.

Edited by Rati_Festa, 08 April 2018 - 09:37 AM.


Mimos_A #16 Posted 08 April 2018 - 09:37 AM

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View PostRyn1k, on 08 April 2018 - 07:51 AM, said:

 

And what about Arctic Region bottom; if you hug the cliff edge (water at bottom, cant hug the redline per say) you take so long to reach the corridor that enemy heavies will be in position (peeking the corner) and shoot you. If you don't take the longer route, you will get shot by the TD's camping the east spawn TD ledge.

 

I drew it on a map for you in the last thread. Had the map quite some times in my e75 recently, always made it safe, you just need to take time and think about what you're doing and where you drive.

unhappy_bunny #17 Posted 08 April 2018 - 09:41 AM

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View PostMimos_A, on 08 April 2018 - 09:37 AM, said:

 

I drew it on a map for you in the last thread. Had the map quite some times in my e75 recently, always made it safe, you just need to take time and think about what you're doing and where you drive.

 

I think that is the problem. OP doesnt want to think or adapt. He has always played his tank and the maps one way and it always worked, so he now says "Why should I have to adapt? WG should adjust the maps to my wants".

LordMuffin #18 Posted 08 April 2018 - 12:26 PM

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View PostRyn1k, on 08 April 2018 - 08:36 AM, said:


Coulda shoulda woulda, yadda yadda. The map is clearly designed for tanks to cross there, unfortunately they also decided to make it so you get shot before leaving spawn. It's the developers error, not the people utilizing the clearly indicated routes.

A mate of mine who has played the game since launch said this didn't used to be the case, and said something about powercreep and even powerful assassins being too fast these days. Don't know, but I guess it could be plausible.

WG is happy players like you exist, they can get away with substandard designs and you'll howl at the moon.

Git gud, and you don't get hit.

 

 

I will happily farm players like you who make the same mistake game after game after game.



Simeon85 #19 Posted 08 April 2018 - 12:36 PM

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You have literally videoed yourself failing to learn how to play. 

 

Both instances were clearly avoidable, yet you think it is not your fault. This thread is the epitome of what is wrong with this playerbase, they do stupid things over and over, but never actually look at the reason for their failure, the person sitting in the chair. 

 

Also comments disabled on the video, lmao, that alone shows you know in reality you are wrong. 


Edited by Simeon85, 08 April 2018 - 12:40 PM.


ThinGun #20 Posted 08 April 2018 - 12:50 PM

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Someone shot me today and I died as a result of it.  This never happened before 1.0.  It's a disgrace and the WG dev team should hang their heads in shame.

 

 

 

 

^^^ (may not contain 100% of phact)







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