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The Big Light Tank Discussion Thread

Light Tank

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Poll: LT current status (103 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 250 battles in order to participate this poll.

What do you think about the current performance of the Light Tanks?

  1. Great (5 votes [4.85%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.85%

  2. Good (21 votes [20.39%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.39%

  3. Average (35 votes [33.98%])

    Percentage of vote: 33.98%

  4. Bad (24 votes [23.30%])

    Percentage of vote: 23.30%

  5. Poor (15 votes [14.56%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.56%

  6. Hard to say (3 votes [2.91%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.91%

What is your opinion on the Tier X Light Tanks

  1. Great (2 votes [1.94%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.94%

  2. Good (8 votes [7.77%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.77%

  3. Average (16 votes [15.53%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.53%

  4. Bad (29 votes [28.16%])

    Percentage of vote: 28.16%

  5. Poor (30 votes [29.13%])

    Percentage of vote: 29.13%

  6. Hard to say (18 votes [17.48%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.48%

Which Tier X Light Tank would you rather grind, if you had to start a line anew?

  1. XM551 Sheridan (7 votes [6.80%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.80%

  2. T-100 LT (54 votes [52.43%])

    Percentage of vote: 52.43%

  3. AMX 13 105 (19 votes [18.45%])

    Percentage of vote: 18.45%

  4. SPz 57 Rheinmetall Panzerwagen (4 votes [3.88%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.88%

  5. WZ-132-1 (8 votes [7.77%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.77%

  6. Hard to say (11 votes [10.68%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.68%

Do you think Light Tanks, in general, are lacking in any of the following?

  1. View Range (41 votes [39.81%])

    Percentage of vote: 39.81%

  2. DPM (13 votes [12.62%])

    Percentage of vote: 12.62%

  3. Avg. Damage (4 votes [3.88%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.88%

  4. Avg. Penetration (Default ammunition) (14 votes [13.59%])

    Percentage of vote: 13.59%

  5. Top speed (4 votes [3.88%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.88%

  6. Camouflage (4 votes [3.88%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.88%

  7. None of the above - Light Tanks are fine (14 votes [13.59%])

    Percentage of vote: 13.59%

  8. Hard to say (9 votes [8.74%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.74%

There's an important match you have to participate. You have to choose between the M41 Walker Bulldog and the leKpz M41 90mm. Which would you choose?

  1. M41 Walker Bulldog (20 votes [19.42%])

    Percentage of vote: 19.42%

  2. leKpz M41 90mm (83 votes [80.58%])

    Percentage of vote: 80.58%

Do you think past changes for Light Tanks were necessary?

  1. Yes, all of them (11 votes [10.68%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.68%

  2. Yes, some of them (48 votes [46.60%])

    Percentage of vote: 46.60%

  3. No (32 votes [31.07%])

    Percentage of vote: 31.07%

  4. Hard to say (12 votes [11.65%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.65%

What do you think about the top speed of Light Tanks?

  1. Great (16 votes [15.53%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.53%

  2. Good (50 votes [48.54%])

    Percentage of vote: 48.54%

  3. Average (21 votes [20.39%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.39%

  4. Bad (12 votes [11.65%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.65%

  5. Poor (1 vote [0.97%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.97%

  6. Hard to say (3 votes [2.91%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.91%

Return of Scout Matchmaking (-1/+3)?

  1. Yes (22 votes [21.36%])

    Percentage of vote: 21.36%

  2. No (69 votes [66.99%])

    Percentage of vote: 66.99%

  3. Hard to say (12 votes [11.65%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.65%

Clan War/Reward Light Tanks?

  1. Yes (42 votes [40.78%])

    Percentage of vote: 40.78%

  2. No (29 votes [28.16%])

    Percentage of vote: 28.16%

  3. Hard to say (32 votes [31.07%])

    Percentage of vote: 31.07%

Vote Hide poll

WindSplitter1 #1 Posted 08 April 2018 - 10:11 PM

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I would be in favour of creating a pinned thread for Light Tanks, since it has become a hot topic recently.

 

No, I'm not suggesting creating a pinned thread for all classes but the changes on this class affect how gameplay unravels since information is half the battle and in-game, LTs are the ones who gather it.

 

Not like SPGs that have been repeatedly dealt with, regardless of what WG intend to do next.

Not like MTs and TDs which have no need for interventions if we ignore two recent entries.

And not like HTs which have been repeatedly improved. Even when needlessly.

 

Some points are factual others are my personal opinion.

 

The TL;DR is "Light Tanks are not competitive enough"

 

T92 Review

Now, on to more serious affairs.

 

Introduction (Alt.)
 
Current issues
 
Vehicles negatively affected by these changes

 

WG current stance

 

Proposed changes for Tier VIII Light Tanks + general opinion

 

Poll

 

What I would like to accomplish here is simply gathering input to at least tilt WG into giving these changes a second thought.

 

#Discuss #HappyTanking



Strappster #2 Posted 08 April 2018 - 10:44 PM

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Kudos on creating a well-balanced poll; I'd throw you a like but the forum says I've been too nice today.

 

 

I'll have to knock up another version of that, a psuedo-like for when I run out. In the meantime, please accept this emote -> :great:

 

Right, so the questions and reasoning behind my answers.

 

What do you think about the current performance of the Light Tanks?

Good. They're not too strong, not too weak. I wasn't a fan when the changes were first announced, particularly after the first round of public test when all the higher tier tanks got nerfed but having played more since then, I've seen them as not psuedo-mediums but having a scouting role that mediums couldn't adopt.

 

What is your opinion on the Tier X Light Tanks

Hard to say. I only have one, the WZ-132-1, and I haven't played that very often because I'm not comfortable with the role at that tier yet, given it can be such a crucial part of the team. I'm playing a lot of tier 8 lights at the moment so hopefully that experience will build. From what I've seen, I think they're fairly well balanced.

 

The caveat. Yeah, I can't say that without adding to what I've just said about scouting. I set my lights up to scout first, deal damage second. That means on the single-shot tanks, I drop the rammer and use vents - I'd rather spend 0.5s relocating than reloading marginally quicker in tanks that don't have such great gun handling to begin with. I know this is contrary to received wisdom on how to light tank but it's how I like 'em.

 

Which Tier X Light Tank would you rather grind, if you had to start a line anew?

T-100 LT. It's easy to say "Rusha bias" when looking at that line, light tanks with medium levels of armour and excellent mobility, but I'm currently at the LTTB and it's not all chocolates and roses. Helps that the tier 10 is one of the best-looking lights - squat, brutal and aggressive; it's giving new life to my active scouting. I also like the fact that it uses APCR as standard and AP as premium, it's the sort of thing I find funny.

 

Do you think Light Tanks, in general, are lacking in any of the following?

View range. They already have the best camo, particularly as they don't lose anything when moving. I wouldn't want to boost the camo any more, that should come from crew skills, but I'd welcome a bit more view range to burn off some of the camper camo employed by mediums and TDs. That could easily lead to them being OP, however, staying invisible while lighting everything up so it'd have to be carefully monitored.

 

There's an important match you have to participate. You have to choose between the M41 Walker Bulldog and the leKpz M41 90mm. Which would you choose?

Black Dog. I haven't played the Bulldog so I don't know how it'd fare in comparison.

 

Do you think past changes for Light Tanks were necessary?

Yes, some of them. I like that the lines have been extended and certain lights would have been blatantly OP if they'd been given standard match-making without changes. On the other hand, I sold my AMX ELC and ex-derp VK 28.01 because they lost the part which made them fun to play.

 

What do you think about the top speed of Light Tanks?

Good. By which I mean, fine, doesn't need changing. Anything that's slow by comparison seems to be compensated in other areas, for example the French lights with their auto-loaders and view range.

 

Return of Scout Matchmaking (-1/+3)?

No. Although I'd be happy to review that when the tiers go up to 12 and we get MBTs in every nation. ;)

 

Clan War/Reward Light Tanks?

Yes. Sure, why not? There's only one reward tank that seems excessive at the moment, though I don't see them too often so I'm not really speaking from experience. I'd like it to be different to the in-game vehicles to make it special. Sticking a different gun on the turret and tacking a B on the name really feels like a cop-out.



FluffyRedFox #3 Posted 08 April 2018 - 10:53 PM

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Block Quote

 From Tier V onwards, it's safe to say that they are simply not competitive

I disagree, I find most LTs (excluding tier X lights ofc) to be perfectly fine, with just a few stinkers here and there just like any class. Overall I do feel that a general view range buff is needed, but for the most part I find the improved guns and matchmaking to be more than sufficient to make up for this.

 

Can I ask about your preference of scout matchmaking? Its in the poll and used to be in your sig of how you wanted it back but, why? I don't see the point in giving lights worse matchmaking than they need, in addition to it not working in the current game due to the tier 9 and 10 lights.

 



Schepel #4 Posted 08 April 2018 - 11:21 PM

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I highly enjoy playing most of my light tanks. Some are definitely underpowered to some degree, but as a class, LT's are fine.

Spurtung #5 Posted 08 April 2018 - 11:25 PM

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Had to vote last option on #3 because I own them all already.

Jigabachi #6 Posted 09 April 2018 - 12:46 AM

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Poll lacks a few answers, but since I'm about to drop my phone and fall asleep any second now, I'd just like to leave a general thing here: Maps. The entire balance of light tanks (all tanks, but especially light tanks) is closely tied to mapdesign. Want to balance light tanks? Go balance the maps and introduce bigger and better ones.

 

 



Strappster #7 Posted 09 April 2018 - 01:05 AM

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View PostJigabachi, on 08 April 2018 - 11:46 PM, said:

Poll lacks a few answers, but since I'm about to drop my phone and fall asleep any second now, I'd just like to leave a general thing here: Maps. The entire balance of light tanks (all tanks, but especially light tanks) is closely tied to mapdesign. Want to balance light tanks? Go balance the maps and introduce bigger and better ones.

 

I agree (and am out of likes) but I think there's been some positive steps with the new HD maps. There's a lot more bush cover on a number of them which looks pretty realistic, at least more so than before. I'm enjoying the LTTB grind more than I thought I would as I'm learning more about the new shape of the maps.

Search_Warrant #8 Posted 09 April 2018 - 02:11 AM

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Maps suck? true but making mediums as mobile as lights with more viewrange was a bad idea and giving heavys 400 base viewrange (VKP!!!) was downright crayon munching. but hey this is the same company that think V4 is balanced.

Homer_J #9 Posted 09 April 2018 - 02:46 AM

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The numbers of lights I see in battle simply don't back up the idea that they are bad or hard to play or not competitive.

 

It's not at all unusual for a third of the team to be lights.

 

I only have two tech tree light tanks, the RU251 which I had before the tier X lights arrived and I prefer it now to before, and the MT-25 which I only ever played on the test server when it was replacing the T-50-2 and I thought it was horrible back then.  I've only had two battles with the MT-25 and I'm quite enjoying it.

 

But I guess I will upset the light tank purists and say I play them more as slightly more mobile mediums than scouts.  You can scout in anything, I prefer to do it in the Lowe, at least that can take a hit or two.



Strappster #10 Posted 09 April 2018 - 03:20 AM

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View PostHomer_J, on 09 April 2018 - 01:46 AM, said:

The numbers of lights I see in battle simply don't back up the idea that they are bad or hard to play or not competitive.

 

I'd say the number in battle doesn't reflect the nature of the class. WN8 is still pretty heavily biased toward light damage as the spotting damage isn't available and there are plenty of padders who play lights for that reason. Lights aren't hard to play in that sense, they're little more than paper mediums with worse gun handling and now every light from tier 5 up can use vstabs, that's not so much of a negative.

 

IMO it's hard to play light tanks well as scouts. You need map knowledge, awareness of enemy view ranges (rely on sixth sense to know you've been spotted and you're 3 seconds too late), where the enemy lights are likely to be, where their support is, etc. and it's compounded by the need for a decent team who will actually take advantage of your spotting. Get a bunch of spuds that want to sit behind hard cover and you may as well play for damage to ensure you take something from the battle.


Edited by Strappster, 09 April 2018 - 03:58 AM.


azakow #11 Posted 09 April 2018 - 06:38 AM

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View PostStrappster, on 09 April 2018 - 03:20 AM, said:

 

I'd say the number in battle doesn't reflect the nature of the class. WN8 is still pretty heavily biased toward light damage as the spotting damage isn't available and there are plenty of padders who play lights for that reason. Lights aren't hard to play in that sense, they're little more than paper mediums with worse gun handling and now every light from tier 5 up can use vstabs, that's not so much of a negative.

 

IMO it's hard to play light tanks well as scouts. You need map knowledge, awareness of enemy view ranges (rely on sixth sense to know you've been spotted and you're 3 seconds too late), where the enemy lights are likely to be, where their support is, etc. and it's compounded by the need for a decent team who will actually take advantage of your spotting. Get a bunch of spuds that want to sit behind hard cover and you may as well play for damage to ensure you take something from the battle.

Before the changes, it was extremly rare to find 2x LT in a team.

Today it is the common case.

Are you saying that all of them are attempting to padd?

I would agree to an extent.

Effectively the changes revamped a whole vehilce class to be of interest to alot more players.

For this matter a great succes for WG.

I am impressed by WG to find the correct tweak for this vehicle class, with the exception of 3/5 LT10.

 



TankkiPoju #12 Posted 09 April 2018 - 06:48 AM

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Light tanks really need view range advantage over meds and heavies.

 

AMX 13 57 is a good light tanks. But it's not really because of the gun it has, but because it has 390m view range. Type 64 has the same. That's an actual edge over same tier medium tanks.

 

Why does AMX 13 75 have 370m view range, but 13 57 has 390m? Wargaming please. And then a tank like O-Ni has 380m. How is this supposed to be balanced in any way.

 

WG should give all tier 6-7 light tanks at least 390m view range.


Edited by TankkiPoju, 09 April 2018 - 07:05 AM.


LordMuffin #13 Posted 09 April 2018 - 06:58 AM

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View PostHomer_J, on 09 April 2018 - 02:46 AM, said:

The numbers of lights I see in battle simply don't back up the idea that they are bad or hard to play or not competitive.

 

It's not at all unusual for a third of the team to be lights.

 

I only have two tech tree light tanks, the RU251 which I had before the tier X lights arrived and I prefer it now to before, and the MT-25 which I only ever played on the test server when it was replacing the T-50-2 and I thought it was horrible back then.  I've only had two battles with the MT-25 and I'm quite enjoying it.

 

But I guess I will upset the light tank purists and say I play them more as slightly more mobile mediums than scouts.  You can scout in anything, I prefer to do it in the Lowe, at least that can take a hit or two.

A tank being hard to play or downright underpowered doesn't  mean that the tank is a fun tank to play.

 

I played some Derp 49, which is an underpowered tank, yet it is rather fun to derp Skoda/BC for 900 dmg. 

 

The problem with lights is that  they are marginally faster then a medium tank, while having a way worse gun, worse view range and less hp.



tumppi776 #14 Posted 09 April 2018 - 07:09 AM

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TX is bad.

 

Other tiers are actually good, fun and enjoyable. Theres now so many good LT's.



QuattroTT #15 Posted 09 April 2018 - 07:33 AM

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I feel disgusted by the l100lt to the point where I report players who play it because its so unbalanced and wrecks game balance... Almost as bad as opjects 907 which also get reported at the start of every game. 

8126Jakobsson #16 Posted 09 April 2018 - 08:35 AM

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I think the old max tier 8 and +3 mm was fine but I don't think we can go back to that mm with X lights on the field. What's lacking is accuracy, especially for the X ones. Too often have I patiently held my sneaky spot and decided to take an important kill shot, which will get me spotted, just to miss and run for nothing. I see that most want view range but it's good enough. If anything the other classes should have less.

TankkiPoju #17 Posted 09 April 2018 - 08:54 AM

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View PostQuattroTT, on 09 April 2018 - 07:33 AM, said:

I feel disgusted by the l100lt to the point where I report players who play it because its so unbalanced and wrecks game balance... Almost as bad as opjects 907 which also get reported at the start of every game. 

 

Show me on this picture of Type 5 or Super Conqueror or 430U or 268v4, where the bad T100lt touched you.

 

EDIT: Also, if your most played tank is E25, you don't really have the right to complain about "OP light tanks".


Edited by TankkiPoju, 09 April 2018 - 08:55 AM.


tumppi776 #18 Posted 09 April 2018 - 10:13 AM

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View PostQuattroTT, on 09 April 2018 - 06:33 AM, said:

I feel disgusted by the l100lt to the point where I report players who play it because its so unbalanced and wrecks game balance... Almost as bad as opjects 907 which also get reported at the start of every game. 

 

T-100 LT is a bad freaking tank. With that DPM it cant basically kill anything.

Search_Warrant #19 Posted 09 April 2018 - 01:09 PM

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View Posttumppi776, on 09 April 2018 - 09:13 AM, said:

 

T-100 LT is a bad freaking tank. With that DPM it cant basically kill anything.

 

Missed one of them 3 times with JP E100.... stationary and 100% aimed BOOM. flies over the top... such an annoying minmax tank. can humans even fit in that dam thing? not saying its a good tank but dam its annoying.

leggasiini #20 Posted 09 April 2018 - 02:02 PM

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What do you think about the current performance of the Light Tanks?

  • There are a lot of them, so hard to say how they are overall. Like with all tank classes, there are both stinkers and tanks that are too good among the LTs.

What is your opinion on the Tier X Light Tanks

  • Definitely too weak, no doubt about that.

Which Tier X Light Tank would you rather grind, if you had to start a line anew?

  • T-100 LT, because it isn't completely outclassed by medium tanks, as it can do stuff that no medium tank could do, unlike many other T10 LTs. Doesn't mean that it shouldn't be buffed, though.

Do you think Light Tanks, in general, are lacking in any of the following?

  • Some of them have lacking accuracy, DPM and/or view range, but again, it depends on a tank. Tier 10 LTs lack a lot of stuff, though.

There's an important match you have to participate. You have to choose between the M41 Walker Bulldog and the leKpz M41 90mm. Which would you choose?

  • M41 90, because it is balanced around tier 8 with scout MM, so it effectively is a tier 9 with tier 8 MM. 

Do you think past changes for Light Tanks were necessary?

  • Yes and no. Many of them got unnecessarily overkill nerfs. MM changes were necessary, however, to make it easier to balance tanks with each other. Also, many of them DID need changes when their MM were adjusted - look what happened for those which didn't get any statistical nerfs but still got better MM (AMX 13 57, looking at you...).

What do you think about the top speed of Light Tanks?

  • Don't see the general issue here. If LTs have problems, its generally other things, not the mobility. There are some exceptions, but generally the top speed is not the one. And even if it is, there is almost always a bigger issue.

Return of Scout Matchmaking (-1/+3)?

  • Definitely no. Giving LTs a normal MM like other tanks was one of the good things that happened in 9.18. Makes things easier to balance among each other.

Clan War/Reward Light Tanks?

  • Sure, why not.

Edited by leggasiini, 09 April 2018 - 02:03 PM.






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