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The Joy Of Shooting Gold :D


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TungstenHitman #1 Posted 09 April 2018 - 12:24 PM

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A touchy subject is the use of premium ammo but lets explore it a little bit. So what's the problem exactly? I never really understood why some players get so salty about the use of this ammo type. I get the whole thing on "It's pay to win" but it's not really since you can use credits to pay for premium ammo so what's the problem? It can't even be called gold ammo really and I have neither a problem using it or being shot by it. Tell the truth I don't even know when I get shot by gold ammo but if I am I'm glad I'm costing the other player a lot of credits lol.

 

Premium ammo is needed and the game would not work without it under it's current layout, system and tank stats. Some tanks have really suckass standard pen along with some tanks with OP as fok armor and of course there's an mm system that takes in not only 3 tiers but also a 3-5-7 system that makes playing anything other than tier9 and 10 being bottom tier for most battles so spamming a bit of gold is a means of actually being able to play this game. So are we all cool with it or still some "but but but... "? Change the system and I'll change my gold ammo load out. Until then, I will forever be hovering my finger over the 2 key until my credits all run out and have to uninstall, but that won't be for a while yet.



signal11th #2 Posted 09 April 2018 - 12:27 PM

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I'd say when I used to despise gold it was because it countered the very thing that certain tanks only had going for them as in armor, WG countered this by instead of fixing the issue, creating silly tanks that basically required you to spam prem ammo at. Can't beat the system. Personally I've always favoured the % of total ammo limited approach. It has gotten silly that you go into tier 6 games as people are spamming it like no tomorrow against tanks they don't need it for.

The very fact that people learn't about angling etc to bounce 2 out of the 3 shots with normal pen took a modicum of skill now it's just point click pen 80% of the time. I'm always against anything that takes away the need for learning or skill from the game.


Edited by signal11th, 09 April 2018 - 12:29 PM.


Cuck0osNest #3 Posted 09 April 2018 - 12:43 PM

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Cheating is a Joy too

TungstenHitman #4 Posted 09 April 2018 - 12:43 PM

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View Postsignal11th, on 09 April 2018 - 11:27 AM, said:

The very fact that people learn't about angling etc to bounce 2 out of the 3 shots with normal pen took a modicum of skill now it's just point click pen 80% of the time. I'm always against anything that takes away the need for learning or skill from the game.

 

That's true to a point but I've noticed the game has become very unforgiving for shots that are not aimed now. HEAT was always a big no no when it came to not aiming so that's off the criticism table to begin with but I've noticed, and probably you guys have too, that for APCR, it is REALLY very reliant right now to be fully aimed and find something relatively flat. It had a certain harshness to normalization before but now it is really sensitive and even my Hellcat with 240+ pen simply will not pen a target unless I find that sweet spot so I don't think that "noobs just dont need to aim" applies any more. With the exception of some derp gun of course, that is and always was, pure noob lol.

 

Thing about the tier6 reference. It depends on the gun of the tank too. Some tanks have a high alpha low reload setup so when the opposition features a Defender or a Patriot or a 0-Ni or that OP SU armor TD thingy.. you don't know what you well see first in the opening moments of a battle so you just can't afford to dik around loading out an AP and waiting an age to reload an APCR or HEAT



signal11th #5 Posted 09 April 2018 - 12:50 PM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 09 April 2018 - 11:43 AM, said:

 

That's true to a point but I've noticed the game has become very unforgiving for shots that are not aimed now. HEAT was always a big no no when it came to not aiming so that's off the criticism table to begin with but I've noticed, and probably you guys have too, that for APCR, it is REALLY very reliant right now to be fully aimed and find something relatively flat. It had a certain harshness to normalization before but now it is really sensitive and even my Hellcat with 240+ pen simply will not pen a target unless I find that sweet spot so I don't think that "noobs just dont need to aim" applies any more. With the exception of some derp gun of course, that is and always was, pure noob lol.

 

Thing about the tier6 reference. It depends on the gun of the tank too. Some tanks have a high alpha low reload setup so when the opposition features a Defender or a Patriot or a 0-Ni or that OP SU armor TD thingy.. you don't know what you well see first in the opening moments of a battle so you just can't afford to dik around loading out an AP and waiting an age to reload an APCR or HEAT

 

Probably because people expect to pen everything frontally.... now that's probably a fault of the map team as they seem to think every map has to be a corridor job. Get round the back of 90% of tanks and most guns will pen with standard.

Geno1isme #6 Posted 09 April 2018 - 12:52 PM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 09 April 2018 - 01:24 PM, said:

Premium ammo is needed and the game would not work without it under it's current layout, system and tank stats.

 

That's complete nonsense. The game would still work, just differently. If it would be better or worse is open for debate.

 

View PostTungstenHitman, on 09 April 2018 - 01:24 PM, said:

Some tanks have really suckass standard pen along with some tanks with OP as fok armor and of course there's an mm system that takes in not only 3 tiers but also a 3-5-7 system that makes playing anything other than tier9 and 10 being bottom tier for most battles so spamming a bit of gold is a means of actually being able to play this game.

 

Again nonsense. Even as low-tier I generally don't need premium ammo in most situations to be successful. Of course it can help a lot in some situations though, but those are the exceptions. On the other side PM has a massive influence on same-tier battles - when you have one team shooting PM and the other doesn't it's almost an auto-win.

And the broken armor models we got lately are mainly just a result of the increasing premium ammo spam (it's a hen-egg problem). Using that as justification for PM usage is backward logic. Funny thing is that we're already moving from the PM-spam age to the HE-spam age recently as the newer armor models are often even tricky to pen with PM (and of course the rise of Godzilla plays its part as well).

 

The main issue with PM is that it allows people to be stupid: why bother with tactical maneuvers to get into an enemies flank when you can just press 2-2 and shoot straight through his thick front armor. Plus the other benefits you get from APCR (shell velocity) and HEAT (less autobounce, not penetration loss).

 



TungstenHitman #7 Posted 09 April 2018 - 12:58 PM

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View Postsignal11th, on 09 April 2018 - 11:50 AM, said:

 

Probably because people expect to pen everything frontally.... now that's probably a fault of the map team as they seem to think every map has to be a corridor job. Get round the back of 90% of tanks and most guns will pen with standard.

 

Yes and that will always be the case so in regards to that, a person spamming gold at the back of a tank is only wasting their credits and the person being shot, even in their sides, can't complain either since they would have been penned with normal, so I don't see it as much issue. A good player with heavy armor will not get penned because they know how to use it and in fact, here's the reality, in many cases it's only a player guilty of having no skill and big armor that will be the player getting penned frontally by gold ammo aka some noob plodding down a corridor inconsiderately towards well positioned enemy guns with their Type4 or Maus etc. Are we to believe that this inconsiderate, OP armor playstyle is skill and the guy properly aiming and penning them with gold is of lessor skill? 

signal11th #8 Posted 09 April 2018 - 01:04 PM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 09 April 2018 - 11:58 AM, said:

 

Yes and that will always be the case so in regards to that, a person spamming gold at the back of a tank is only wasting their credits and the person being shot, even in their sides, can't complain either since they would have been penned with normal, so I don't see it as much issue. A good player with heavy armor will not get penned because they know how to use it and in fact, here's the reality, in many cases it's only a player guilty of having no skill and big armor that will be the player getting penned frontally by gold ammo aka some noob plodding down a corridor inconsiderately towards well positioned enemy guns with their Type4 or Maus etc. Are we to believe that this inconsiderate, OP armor playstyle is skill and the guy properly aiming and penning them with gold is of lessor skill? 

 

yes but that's like pointing out 1% of the game play and ignoring the other 99% when the dude has just spammed it regardless.. Now I spam prem (being ex dinger) likes it's going out of fashion.. why do I do it, well basically because I want to not have to "work" in the game so that tells me everything I need to know about prem ammo.

Makotti #9 Posted 09 April 2018 - 01:10 PM

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View Postsignal11th, on 09 April 2018 - 01:27 PM, said:

I'd say when I used to despise gold it was because it countered the very thing that certain tanks only had going for them as in armor, WG countered this by instead of fixing the issue, creating silly tanks that basically required you to spam prem ammo at. Can't beat the system. Personally I've always favoured the % of total ammo limited approach. It has gotten silly that you go into tier 6 games as people are spamming it like no tomorrow against tanks they don't need it for.

The very fact that people learn't about angling etc to bounce 2 out of the 3 shots with normal pen took a modicum of skill now it's just point click pen 80% of the time. I'm always against anything that takes away the need for learning or skill from the game.

Speaking of T6 Type 58 is real joy to play w/o prem ammo.



XxKuzkina_MatxX #10 Posted 09 April 2018 - 01:15 PM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 09 April 2018 - 01:43 PM, said:

With the exception of some derp gun of course, that is and always was, pure noob lol.T

 

Derp guns also requires some aiming unless you want to do 200-300 damage every 15 seconds you have to aim. The DPM output depend on aiming and i'd say it's even harder to control those guns than regular AP guns.

 

Yesterday in Himmelsdorf i went to the 7 line from the south spawn, i was in a type 5 in a full tier 10 MM, i had an E5 for support but he was trolling me more than the enemy :) ahead there was a Maus and an obj. 260 and at the D7 corner there was a type 5. I pushed up to the the E7 and started shooting the Maus and the obj while the enemy type kept peeking around the corner shooting my side. Every time he came out i angled my side towards him and he did 150-200 damage per shot, once we killed both tanks in front i shot the Type once for 700. It does require some knowledge of where to shoot that HE.



Search_Warrant #11 Posted 09 April 2018 - 01:20 PM

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Then WG make guns like the 76mm jumbo/E1 gun that has pathetic standard pen and shocking bad gold rounds. a gun that truly shouldent be in the game.

Edited by Search_Warrant, 09 April 2018 - 01:20 PM.


XxKuzkina_MatxX #12 Posted 09 April 2018 - 01:21 PM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 09 April 2018 - 01:58 PM, said:

 

Yes and that will always be the case so in regards to that, a person spamming gold at the back of a tank is only wasting their credits and the person being shot, even in their sides, can't complain either since they would have been penned with normal, so I don't see it as much issue. A good player with heavy armor will not get penned because they know how to use it and in fact, here's the reality, in many cases it's only a player guilty of having no skill and big armor that will be the player getting penned frontally by gold ammo aka some noob plodding down a corridor inconsiderately towards well positioned enemy guns with their Type4 or Maus etc. Are we to believe that this inconsiderate, OP armor playstyle is skill and the guy properly aiming and penning them with gold is of lessor skill? 

 

Heat with 330-340 will go through any tank almost everywhere regardless of how clever you are. Of course there are some exceptions but the idea is not to give up that hp easily or at all if possible. That's done through positioning and timing.

 

But then again what do i know, you can watch Decha or Stanlock to see how pros use gold ammo! :)

 

N.B: There will be a new addition soon to the game in the form of 350 mm penetration heat rounds on CW tanks!!!


Edited by XxKuzkina_MatxX, 09 April 2018 - 01:25 PM.


Geno1isme #13 Posted 09 April 2018 - 01:24 PM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 09 April 2018 - 01:58 PM, said:

Yes and that will always be the case so in regards to that, a person spamming gold at the back of a tank is only wasting their credits and the person being shot, even in their sides, can't complain either since they would have been penned with normal, so I don't see it as much issue.

 

And that is where you're wrong: for example high velocity APCR rounds simply have a better chance to hit a target (main reason to use PM on the E4 for example), and superheavies with like 100mm or more side armor can try to bounce shells from circling tanks by angling, so even there PM makes a difference, though of course not as much as with frontal armor. The whole "he would have penned anyway, so you've no reason to complain" argument is invalid in most situations.

 

Plus it's not just about the direct confrontation. As stated above, if you have one team shooting PM and the other team doesn't then it's a massive advantage for the former (esp. in a same-tier battle). So even if the PM-usage wouldn't make a difference when the enemy shoots me while I'm sitting in a paper tank it reduces my chance at winning the battle overall.



The_Georgian_One #14 Posted 09 April 2018 - 01:33 PM

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The way I see it is - spamming gold (and literally spamming it) makes you play at lower difficulty levels.


Compare the difficulty of playing Leo PTA and trying to use standard ammo pen whilst fully aiming with snapping balanced 340 pen HEAT shells in already OP 430U. It's like playing on hard and on very easy.

 

I used to refuse to shoot any prem ammo at all, but noticed this is no longer possible (armor powercreep) and it makes me perform worse and loose more. Nowadays I still don't shoot it too often, except when I face Japanese heavies or when I mark tanks (still I use it moderately in 2nd case).


Edited by The_Georgian_One, 09 April 2018 - 01:34 PM.


Ubervold #15 Posted 09 April 2018 - 01:34 PM

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Gold is for JAP heavys, makes them go away vevvy quickly.

_b_ #16 Posted 09 April 2018 - 01:38 PM

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If I press "2" it's for balanced vehicles like a few of the newly introduced super-heavies, ppl who have been spamming it at me, or arty. Otherwise I try not too....

Joggaman #17 Posted 09 April 2018 - 01:45 PM

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Sirebellus #18 Posted 09 April 2018 - 01:46 PM

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I have no objection to using Gold Ammo when necessary
However I do think that loading full gold when sealclubbing in T1 & T2 is a bit pathetic, as it is not necessary to use Premium Ammo in your Loltractor or PzII or M2

I have been playing a few games at T1 lately trying to get each tank up to a 50%+ WR - not sealclubbing, I'm playing with silver trained crews and no premium ammo.
Yesterday I played couple of games in the Chinese T1 NC31 and found that almost every shot that hit me was APCR... I don't think I'll bother playing T1 tanks at weekends again
 

ThinGun #19 Posted 09 April 2018 - 01:54 PM

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No problem with using or being hit by gold.  I'd like another couple of options - a 'firework' ammo, that does not damage but creates a diversion - and a smoke shell that hides your tank for about 30 seconds . 

TungstenHitman #20 Posted 09 April 2018 - 02:01 PM

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Spamming gold is a total waste too, agreed, but don't be a uber cheap either. Different keys to unlock different doors, same with ammo types. I witnessed a player lose a battle yesterday, a very close and exciting battle(well, so far as this game goes) and he lost because he was too cheap to carry a few gold rounds as he pointlessly plinked the front a slow heavy he couldn't pen while the heavy casually destroyed him from full hp. That said, what a noob but still, get a few gold rounds in that tank you cheap son of a.... 






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