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Map tactics of despair in WoT


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LordMuffin #1 Posted 11 April 2018 - 12:43 AM

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Many maps are just terribly bad and are promoting extremely bad gameplay.

 

Examples:

 

1: Airfield (not changed much)

Spoiler

The best tactic on this map is the camping one, meaning, you camp your balcony (E5 and E7) and behind the rock at E6/G6, and then just wait for enemy to push.

Pushing around that rock is suicide, pushing the K line is suicide. Going over the mid is suicide.

And in general, the team that don't push or attack is also the team that wins this map.

 

2: Erlenberg (changed alot),

Spoiler

I didn't find a clean map without stupid arrows and crapso... Just ignore them.

With the new incredibly strong positions along the K-line and A-line on both sides. Going out of castle from either side, or across the hill from either side is suicide, and not a viable thing to do.

Can you do something from mid? Not really, you just get killed from those same super strong positions at K-line and A-line.

 

In general, the team that wins on this map, is the team that doesn't push, but just recieves the push and then with a huge numerical advantage roll over.

 

3: Fjords (changed alot)

Spoiler

Again, both teams have super strong camping positions around the middle teal area in the picture, meaning, pushing out there is suicide. The hill at E5/E6 is good and powerful, and somewhat makes it possible to advance for the team that controls it. But again, pushing is not really possible. Though I think top spawn has a slight advantage.

The camp area at E8 is also very strong at protecting field or any push down E6 area. So, strong camping positions dominate this map.

 

4:

Malinovka (some changes).

No need to explain, this map is as bad as always, maybe even worse in the new version. The camping positions in both forests are way to strong, meaning that pushing is not really a good tactic here either. Winning hill doesn't mean anything, since it is more or less impossible to push down from it if the enemy just hides in the forests.

 

5:

Ruinberg:

Same old same old, the field heavily favours north spawn. South can quite easily hold it from base. Still a bad map. At least, the team that push through city usually win, so camping is not rewarded.

 

6:

Mines

So heavily favours North spawn it isn't even funny. Terrible design aswell as terrible spawning location placements.

 

7:

El Halluf

Same old, the map is decided in one corner which favours heavy tanks, so bad for that reason. But not bad for the camping is best tactic reason at least.

8: Steppes (changed alot)

The top side of the map is now ruined due to easily accessible super strong camping positions. shutting down that corridor with great efficiency. Thus, a passive play is once again encouraged.

Also the area behind the railway north and mountains behind cap on south is still a way to strong area and should be removed.

9: Paris (changed a bit)

The new changes made the map worse imo, WG reduced the possibility to get early spots on heavies driving carelessly to the heavy spawn area. And all old problems still exist.

10: Ensk:

terrible and no changes.

11: Abbey (Some changes).

Still terrible, changes to mid section made that area even worse and more boring to use due to removal of all the interesting paths into the abbey, also, removal of the possibility to get from mid area to riverside area is another terrible change. A bad map made worse.

12: Cliff

Spoiler

A pretty bad map made even worse, only due to the super strong TD camping positions at A5 and J5 areas which completely shut down any assault over the mid area, around the cliff, around the donut or on the lowground. With 1 decent TD played by someone who can both aim and shoot at enemies, you can hold your entire half of the map with like 2-3 tanks against way more enemies.

13: Fishermans Bay (changed quite alot)

Spoiler

New look, and worse then before, of course. The problem areas from before are not removed/changed (A1 corner primarily) but also K7 and K1, instead more problem areas are created (A-line) and E6 and F6 areas. The entire city area is more or less removed and thus unsuable. The new 1-line is in worse shape then before aswell. Changed to the worse.

14: Lakeville (not changed much)

Still a very problematic valley which should be remade into a relevant area, the mid road has some small issues, but this map is bad primarily because the Valley is such a stupid area and it just removes almost ½ of the map from the playable areas.

15: Mountain Pass (not changed much)

A bad map by design, it only favourse 1 type of tank, it is about a 50m brawl, in one corner of the map, iceroad is simply useless because you don't gain anything from winning that fight. If you win it and push south, you get killed by guys on the base hill, if you win it and go north, you get killed by guys from the camp hill. A remake of that area, removal of much of the mountains and the map could become something good.

16: Overlord

Despite being rather open, this map is badly designed, the beach should just go and be remade into something which actually gives a benefit to conquer. Currently the map is just about winning the area furthest away from the beach and then progress from there towards the beach area.

17: Tundra

A bad map made somewhat worse I believe. Most armour wins.

18: Arctic region

A bad map staying bad, the changes haven't had any impact afaik. The heavy brawl area is still not that interesting, because it is rather easily shut down from either side if lost by basecamping tanks in hulldown positions and arty. This map also promotes a camping style, like Airfield, but not as accentuated. But in general, it is not worth it to push heavy side, and the south team can easily punish any push along the top part of the map.

 

And that was it for the bad maps.

 

Good maps

1: Sand river

Good, not changed much/at all. Promotes active play.

2: Prokhorovka

Good map, promotes active play, not changed much. Probably the best map in the game for a few reasons.

a) All areas are important.

b) You can push both hill and 1 line.

c) you actually need support from mid area to make a successful push on either side.

 

3: Murovanka

Good map, the left side is still kind of bad, but right side is good.

With a small tweak to the left side (removal of the strong camping positions along the red lines) this map will get very nice. Not chaned much.

4: Redshire

Still a good map in my mind.

5: Westfield

Not good, not bad, just meh, but better then most in WoT.

6: Himmelsdorf.

By far the best City map in the game. Still a pretty good city map.

7: Karelia:

Still a nice map that like, especially on assault, and no changes aswell :)

8: Live Oaks

Not changed much, or at all. An ok map with some slight favour to one side. Some issues with to strong camping positions in the back still. Problems with the city being more or less irrelevant to fight over, since you don't gain anything useful from winning it. But not that bad of a map.

9: Serene coast, not that bad, not good either. And the issues with the strong camping position for the north team still exist, meaning that north can just refuse to move out of base and still have a very strong (almost unbreakable) position.

10: Siegfried line:

Decent in assault, I like the changes to the north part ridge line. It sucks in standard or encounter mode though, the city is badly planned for anything except assault starting positions.

 

The only good part about the maps is that most players have a very very very bad knowledge about tactics and strategy in WoT, so these bad designs are not that big of a problem, since a huge majority of the players are simply to bad to exploit them. If the average player was better at WoT tactics (not driving out in huge open areas with bushes on the other side, driving into obvious crossifres, contesting irrelevant areas etc), many maps would become borderline impossible to play.



Afdass #2 Posted 11 April 2018 - 01:13 AM

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Well, the maps are pretty much the same as before. Only some had a few drastic changes on flattening surfaces and the implementation of new bushes and other that affect spotting.

For example, the road on the west side of Prokhorovka is now covered of bushes on both sides. You can just drive along that road from north to south without fear in getting spotted there from either west or east side.

The new camping areas on Steppes are now really cancerous. That east flank pretty much works now on "which is the team willing to stay behind those bushes the most". An Strv sitting on that triangle on the north side can do whatever he wants to do until 10 tanks push into him.

Fjords now reminds me Mines. The rush for that middle hill is real. And then what? The middle field is no man's land and once you go there, you ded. That north corner can now shoot whatever they want through the middle because of the higher ground and there is also too much cover there which makes that a broken position to take. The rest is just the same lame trains.

Erlenberg is more campy than ever with those huge tree+bush lines on A and K lines. The middle city area can work as you have a few windows and empty spaces to shoot from both sides. Then, is just a normal corridor where you have to fight whatever shows up in front.

Ruinberg has insane bush levels on that middle road area. Also the road was made 2x wider god knows why. Fighting that area only really works with decent mediums with good camo and turret armor/heavies with good turret armor.

Pointed the maps I struggle with the most after the update.

 

Overall, all maps have now way (WAY WAY) more bushes and tree tops covering everything from getting spotted. I was playing yesterday on Siegfried Line and I shot a Skoda T50 300m away from me in my T25 Pilot with stock camo levels and 0 bushes in-between and I didn't got spotted because a tree top was in the way. Then, neither me or him could not spot each other in the same positions as before just because that tree top. I doubt the dude had less than 400m VR which should easily spot me from his position.



NoobySkooby #3 Posted 11 April 2018 - 02:16 AM

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The flatness of steppes and Fjords is a joke, every game no change in the play and I think there are not enough bushes, although that just might be me:popcorn:

Enforcer1975 #4 Posted 11 April 2018 - 02:20 AM

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I am slowly getting to know the important parts but i agree with all maps made worse. They ruined a lot of them.

LordMuffin #5 Posted 11 April 2018 - 10:39 AM

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View PostEnforcer1975, on 11 April 2018 - 02:20 AM, said:

I am slowly getting to know the important parts but i agree with all maps made worse. They ruined a lot of them.

Indeed they did.

 

While map making is tricky, they do have a few maps that at least were liked by most players (Steppes, Prokhorovka, Sand River)  being main examples I think.

 

But instead of looking at these designs to try and find out why these are liked,  it feels like they just had the idea that.

X area is a TD/light area, so much open area in front and bush/hard cover there.

Y area is a Heavy area, so 50m engagements with no chance of crossfire.

Z area is for mediums, meaning it have some rather flat hills and ridges.

 

Then you put these 3 into a map and then you are done. And voila, you get new Erlenberg.



Simeon85 #6 Posted 11 April 2018 - 11:20 AM

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View PostLordMuffin, on 11 April 2018 - 12:43 AM, said:

 

 

 

Block Quote

Spoiler

The best tactic on this map is the camping one, meaning, you camp your balcony (E5 and E7) and behind the rock at E6/G6, and then just wait for enemy to push.

Pushing around that rock is suicide, pushing the K line is suicide. Going over the mid is suicide.

And in general, the team that don't push or attack is also the team that wins this map.

 

 

You forgot on this one that the West team can't push around the heavy brawling spot at D6 because they get shot by the campers at A0/B0, but the east team heavies can push that spot because they have cover from the camping positions at the back on that side.

 

Also the heavy brawling spot has no cover from arty really because arty on both teams is able to just go to the K line and shoot in with ease.

 

The rest I agree totally, you can't push or flex on this map as there is nowhere to go, you are basically waiting for others to make mistakes and make silly pushes you exploit or you are a heavy and you try to win your brawl. Any push over the mid ridge in the centre is close to suicide because so many camping spots have shots into this, because of course campers must be rewarded. 

 

Block Quote

 

2: Erlenberg (changed alot),

Spoiler

I didn't find a clean map without stupid arrows and crapso... Just ignore them.

With the new incredibly strong positions along the K-line and A-line on both sides. Going out of castle from either side, or across the hill from either side is suicide, and not a viable thing to do.

Can you do something from mid? Not really, you just get killed from those same super strong positions at K-line and A-line.

 

In general, the team that wins on this map, is the team that doesn't push, but just recieves the push and then with a huge numerical advantage roll over.

 

Yep this map has turned into old Swamp - wait for the other team to push. Only examples I have seen where the camping doesn't work is on Assault because the attacking team can push on the castle side and the middle into the cap, which then gives them cover from the corner campers. 

 

The mid is sort of viable but if you want to gain anything from it you have to leave the safety of the mid and even putting cap pressure on doesn't really work because the camping spots have sight lines over the cap, especially the south cap. 

 

It has turned into one of those maps where you go win your brawl at say the castle and then just turn around and go camp because pushing on from there is pointless.

 

Block Quote

 

3: Fjords (changed alot)

Spoiler

Again, both teams have super strong camping positions around the middle teal area in the picture, meaning, pushing out there is suicide. The hill at E5/E6 is good and powerful, and somewhat makes it possible to advance for the team that controls it. But again, pushing is not really possible. Though I think top spawn has a slight advantage.

The camp area at E8 is also very strong at protecting field or any push down E6 area. So, strong camping positions dominate this map.

 

I think the East team here has a big advantage on this map, if they go north and capture the middle rock then they will dominate the mid area, their positions north are generally better as well and the two positions working together will dominate the campers. Whereas if west team tries to take the E5/E6 spots, they can't do this without total north control otherwise they just get shot in the back.

 

East team doing this combo will basically force the West team to retreat to the base and the only real hope they have is pushing the heavy corner or through the F line but it does not take many tanks in these spots to slow down a push long enough for the rest of the map to be won.

 

If the East team pushes fast meds into E5/E6 and then pushes enough tanks north, then unless they leave every other flank open, then taking these two spots pretty much brings the win home for them. 

 

 

Block Quote

 

4:

Malinovka (some changes).

No need to explain, this map is as bad as always, maybe even worse in the new version. The camping positions in both forests are way to strong, meaning that pushing is not really a good tactic here either. Winning hill doesn't mean anything, since it is more or less impossible to push down from it if the enemy just hides in the forests.

 

The new HD bushes/trees have just made this situation worse, they offer huge amounts of camo and now basically anything is able to hide in there unspotted.

 

 

Block Quote

 

12: Cliff

Spoiler

A pretty bad map made even worse, only due to the super strong TD camping positions at A5 and J5 areas which completely shut down any assault over the mid area, around the cliff, around the donut or on the lowground. With 1 decent TD played by someone who can both aim and shoot at enemies, you can hold your entire half of the map with like 2-3 tanks against way more enemies.

 

Plus South team can still rush the D3 area and inflict lots of early damage on the north team moving to positions.

 

The camping locations at A5/J5 are pretty much impossible to counter without getting really close and it now appears that people camping the base ledge actually have shots into the middle because their is less difference in the elevations. 

 

Plus I have noticed the numbers of tanks that now just 1 line camp is higher than it's ever been. 

 

 

Block Quote

 

13: Fishermans Bay (changed quite alot)

Spoiler

New look, and worse then before, of course. The problem areas from before are not removed/changed (A1 corner primarily) but also K7 and K1, instead more problem areas are created (A-line) and E6 and F6 areas. The entire city area is more or less removed and thus unsuable. The new 1-line is in worse shape then before aswell. Changed to the worse.

 

This map is now awful IMO, the mid is so stupidly open that you have no options to fall back and use any ridges, if the enemy team pushes you out from the middle then you have to fall back to basically the corners, because the whole area is open and flat now on both sides. You can get shot from pretty much everywhere.

 

Old Fishermans bay used to work like 4 quarters, there were ridglines that ran through the middle and north/south, this meant if the enemy pushed you could fall back behind a ridge to fight them, thus the aim was to hold at least two quarters of the map, either south or notrh or east or west. Now the whole middle is basically one big flat open area with a few building and bushes in the middle, if you don't have that you can't use any of the middle.

 

The only problems with this map were the 1 line favoured north team and the corner camping spots, they have now made the 1 line a more protected corridor which has turned into a complete noob trap like Overlord beach and the camping spots have been made stronger.

 

Awful awful changes. 

 

Block Quote

 

8: Live Oaks

Not changed much, or at all. An ok map with some slight favour to one side. Some issues with to strong camping positions in the back still. Problems with the city being more or less irrelevant to fight over, since you don't gain anything useful from winning it. But not that bad of a map.

 

Slight favour? 

 

The South team has a huge advantage on the water flank, if they get there then 9/10 they will win, which means they win the map because the city is useless and does not win you any control. 

 

I'd say that is a badly balanced map if the one viable flank completely favours one team. 

 



LordMuffin #7 Posted 11 April 2018 - 11:39 AM

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View PostSimeon85, on 11 April 2018 - 11:20 AM, said:

 

 

 

You forgot on this one that the West team can't push around the heavy brawling spot at D6 because they get shot by the campers at A0/B0, but the east team heavies can push that spot because they have cover from the camping positions at the back on that side.

 

Also the heavy brawling spot has no cover from arty really because arty on both teams is able to just go to the K line and shoot in with ease.

 

The rest I agree totally, you can't push or flex on this map as there is nowhere to go, you are basically waiting for others to make mistakes and make silly pushes you exploit or you are a heavy and you try to win your brawl. Any push over the mid ridge in the centre is close to suicide because so many camping spots have shots into this, because of course campers must be rewarded. 

 

 

Yep this map has turned into old Swamp - wait for the other team to push. Only examples I have seen where the camping doesn't work is on Assault because the attacking team can push on the castle side and the middle into the cap, which then gives them cover from the corner campers. 

 

The mid is sort of viable but if you want to gain anything from it you have to leave the safety of the mid and even putting cap pressure on doesn't really work because the camping spots have sight lines over the cap, especially the south cap. 

 

It has turned into one of those maps where you go win your brawl at say the castle and then just turn around and go camp because pushing on from there is pointless.

 

 

I think the East team here has a big advantage on this map, if they go north and capture the middle rock then they will dominate the mid area, their positions north are generally better as well and the two positions working together will dominate the campers. Whereas if west team tries to take the E5/E6 spots, they can't do this without total north control otherwise they just get shot in the back.

 

East team doing this combo will basically force the West team to retreat to the base and the only real hope they have is pushing the heavy corner or through the F line but it does not take many tanks in these spots to slow down a push long enough for the rest of the map to be won.

 

If the East team pushes fast meds into E5/E6 and then pushes enough tanks north, then unless they leave every other flank open, then taking these two spots pretty much brings the win home for them. 

 

 

 

The new HD bushes/trees have just made this situation worse, they offer huge amounts of camo and now basically anything is able to hide in there unspotted.

 

 

 

Plus South team can still rush the D3 area and inflict lots of early damage on the north team moving to positions.

 

The camping locations at A5/J5 are pretty much impossible to counter without getting really close and it now appears that people camping the base ledge actually have shots into the middle because their is less difference in the elevations. 

 

Plus I have noticed the numbers of tanks that now just 1 line camp is higher than it's ever been. 

 

 

 

This map is now awful IMO, the mid is so stupidly open that you have no options to fall back and use any ridges, if the enemy team pushes you out from the middle then you have to fall back to basically the corners, because the whole area is open and flat now on both sides. You can get shot from pretty much everywhere.

 

Old Fishermans bay used to work like 4 quarters, there were ridglines that ran through the middle and north/south, this meant if the enemy pushed you could fall back behind a ridge to fight them, thus the aim was to hold at least two quarters of the map, either south or notrh or east or west. Now the whole middle is basically one big flat open area with a few building and bushes in the middle, if you don't have that you can't use any of the middle.

 

The only problems with this map were the 1 line favoured north team and the corner camping spots, they have now made the 1 line a more protected corridor which has turned into a complete noob trap like Overlord beach and the camping spots have been made stronger.

 

Awful awful changes. 

 

 

Slight favour? 

 

The South team has a huge advantage on the water flank, if they get there then 9/10 they will win, which means they win the map because the city is useless and does not win you any control. 

 

I'd say that is a badly balanced map if the one viable flank completely favours one team. 

 

 

Indeed on Fjords,  East is better due to stone. But the map is still so bad and campy. So the biggest gain from it is that enemy team is unable to push. But you still have a very hard time pushing.

'Saving grace' for West,  is the old TD island that quite easily defends and push down from the open area by East team.

 

Live oaks could be fixed rather easy though.

Remove the camp spot close to South base (bushes along red line and the dip).

Make an advance from city to the 2 hills possible by adding some ridges etc so you can get to the hill from city safely if you know what to do  (instead of over an open field where enemy have hulldown cover and bushes).

And suddenly north team can win by pushing city area, since it would also give control of the 2 ridges close to South spawn.

 

I think main problem with Live oaks is the 1 dominant flank issue, if both gets viable and offer some map control and pushing into cap and win abilities, then both sides would be relevant and map would just be better designed.

 

Steppes have the same 1 flank rules them all issue, just that both teams got stronger camping positions in their respective bases, so winning it isnt giving you any significant advantage anymore, unless you play encounter. 



Jigabachi #8 Posted 11 April 2018 - 11:56 AM

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The biggest problem is still the size of most maps. They are WAY too small for everything above tVI.
Just take Airfield, one of the most horrible maps. Make the hill plateau on the right twice the size with less steep slopes on either side, so that you actually have the possibility to play there. Make the corridors on the left side wider and add more rocks and stuff, so that all that brawling happens at 50m, not 5m.

Would be a lot more fun to play.


Edited by Jigabachi, 11 April 2018 - 11:56 AM.


Dava_117 #9 Posted 11 April 2018 - 12:26 PM

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View PostLordMuffin, on 11 April 2018 - 12:43 AM, said:

Many maps are just terribly bad and are promoting extremely bad gameplay.

 

Examples:

 

1: Airfield (not changed much)

Spoiler

The best tactic on this map is the camping one, meaning, you camp your balcony (E5 and E7) and behind the rock at E6/G6, and then just wait for enemy to push.

Pushing around that rock is suicide, pushing the K line is suicide. Going over the mid is suicide.

And in general, the team that don't push or attack is also the team that wins this map.

 

2: Erlenberg (changed alot),

Spoiler

I didn't find a clean map without stupid arrows and crapso... Just ignore them.

With the new incredibly strong positions along the K-line and A-line on both sides. Going out of castle from either side, or across the hill from either side is suicide, and not a viable thing to do.

Can you do something from mid? Not really, you just get killed from those same super strong positions at K-line and A-line.

 

In general, the team that wins on this map, is the team that doesn't push, but just recieves the push and then with a huge numerical advantage roll over.

 

3: Fjords (changed alot)

Spoiler

Again, both teams have super strong camping positions around the middle teal area in the picture, meaning, pushing out there is suicide. The hill at E5/E6 is good and powerful, and somewhat makes it possible to advance for the team that controls it. But again, pushing is not really possible. Though I think top spawn has a slight advantage.

The camp area at E8 is also very strong at protecting field or any push down E6 area. So, strong camping positions dominate this map.

You seem forgetting about south lane effect. Middle can't shoot there but the team winning it can flank the middle easily. West team has a small advantage there, because town provide more cover to help saving the last HP after the brawl and sustain crossfire longer.

 

4:

Malinovka (some changes).

No need to explain, this map is as bad as always, maybe even worse in the new version. The camping positions in both forests are way to strong, meaning that pushing is not really a good tactic here either. Winning hill doesn't mean anything, since it is more or less impossible to push down from it if the enemy just hides in the forests.

Never the less, the team that win hill still have more chance to win, because hill allows middle to push and spot campers in the woods.

5:

Ruinberg:

Same old same old, the field heavily favours north spawn. South can quite easily hold it from base. Still a bad map. At least, the team that push through city usually win, so camping is not rewarded.

 

6:

Mines

So heavily favours North spawn it isn't even funny. Terrible design aswell as terrible spawning location placements.

 

7:

El Halluf

Same old, the map is decided in one corner which favours heavy tanks, so bad for that reason. But not bad for the camping is best tactic reason at least.

So, this map doesn't reward camping too much, but still bad because HT corner is important. Looks more a biased opinion than a well thought analisys. Also a well made push on south can take down artys and attract attention, reducing the pressure on north corner.

8: Steppes (changed alot)

The top side of the map is now ruined due to easily accessible super strong camping positions. shutting down that corridor with great efficiency. Thus, a passive play is once again encouraged.

Also the area behind the railway north and mountains behind cap on south is still a way to strong area and should be removed.

Agree on this, but luckily the west flank still good. A push here can still lead to a victory.

9: Paris (changed a bit)

The new changes made the map worse imo, WG reduced the possibility to get early spots on heavies driving carelessly to the heavy spawn area. And all old problems still exist.

Not really true. You can't carelessly drive to HT corner or you will get hit, especially in slow HTs.

10: Ensk:

terrible and no changes.

Ensk is far than terrible. The only problem it has is that it should be limited to tier 7 at most.

11: Abbey (Some changes).

Still terrible, changes to mid section made that area even worse and more boring to use due to removal of all the interesting paths into the abbey, also, removal of the possibility to get from mid area to riverside area is another terrible change. A bad map made worse.

While I agree for middle and east line, line 1 got changed in better IMO. With the new covers the lower road has gained some strategical relevance, because it's protected by long range TDs fire, basecamping artys and from crossfire from middle.

12: Cliff

Spoiler

A pretty bad map made even worse, only due to the super strong TD camping positions at A5 and J5 areas which completely shut down any assault over the mid area, around the cliff, around the donut or on the lowground. With 1 decent TD played by someone who can both aim and shoot at enemies, you can hold your entire half of the map with like 2-3 tanks against way more enemies.

13: Fishermans Bay (changed quite alot)

Spoiler

New look, and worse then before, of course. The problem areas from before are not removed/changed (A1 corner primarily) but also K7 and K1, instead more problem areas are created (A-line) and E6 and F6 areas. The entire city area is more or less removed and thus unsuable. The new 1-line is in worse shape then before aswell. Changed to the worse.

 

14: Lakeville (not changed much)

Still a very problematic valley which should be remade into a relevant area, the mid road has some small issues, but this map is bad primarily because the Valley is such a stupid area and it just removes almost ½ of the map from the playable areas.

15: Mountain Pass (not changed much)

A bad map by design, it only favourse 1 type of tank, it is about a 50m brawl, in one corner of the map, iceroad is simply useless because you don't gain anything from winning that fight. If you win it and push south, you get killed by guys on the base hill, if you win it and go north, you get killed by guys from the camp hill. A remake of that area, removal of much of the mountains and the map could become something good.

16: Overlord

Despite being rather open, this map is badly designed, the beach should just go and be remade into something which actually gives a benefit to conquer. Currently the map is just about winning the area furthest away from the beach and then progress from there towards the beach area.

17: Tundra

A bad map made somewhat worse I believe. Most armour wins.

Not a bad map IMO, both sides can be won by armoured tank supported by MTs and LTs that then can proceed to clean up the base section and flank tho other side. There are also flanking lanes like the river or the small city that allows fast tanks to be really effective inin getting early damage.

 

18: Arctic region

A bad map staying bad, the changes haven't had any impact afaik. The heavy brawl area is still not that interesting, because it is rather easily shut down from either side if lost by basecamping tanks in hulldown positions and arty. This map also promotes a camping style, like Airfield, but not as accentuated. But in general, it is not worth it to push heavy side, and the south team can easily punish any push along the top part of the map.

 

And that was it for the bad maps.

 

Good maps

1: Sand river

Good, not changed much/at all. Promotes active play.

2: Prokhorovka

Good map, promotes active play, not changed much. Probably the best map in the game for a few reasons.

a) All areas are important.

b) You can push both hill and 1 line.

c) you actually need support from mid area to make a successful push on either side.

A bit too optimistic IMO. West is a no man land: the first who push here get killed by basecamping TDs; middle have the same problem so it have toto actually provide spotting for arty or support hill push, that is probably the only push that can win the battle. Surely not a bad map, but saying it promote active gameplay is a bit too much.

3: Murovanka

Good map, the left side is still kind of bad, but right side is good.

With a small tweak to the left side (removal of the strong camping positions along the red lines) this map will get very nice. Not chaned much.

4: Redshire

Still a good map in my mind.

5: Westfield

Not good, not bad, just meh, but better then most in WoT.

6: Himmelsdorf.

By far the best City map in the game. Still a pretty good city map.

7: Karelia:

Still a nice map that like, especially on assault, and no changes aswell :) 

Totally agree with you there. A good map indeed.

8: Live Oaks

Not changed much, or at all. An ok map with some slight favour to one side. Some issues with to strong camping positions in the back still. Problems with the city being more or less irrelevant to fight over, since you don't gain anything useful from winning it. But not that bad of a map.

Worst than Lakeville or Overlord IMO. Not only there is 1 useless side (even if better than valley or beach on the other 2 maps), but it's strongli biased in favour of one spawn and favours just good gun depression tanks.

9: Serene coast, not that bad, not good either. And the issues with the strong camping position for the north team still exist, meaning that north can just refuse to move out of base and still have a very strong (almost unbreakable) position.

10: Siegfried line:

Decent in assault, I like the changes to the north part ridge line. It sucks in standard or encounter mode though, the city is badly planned for anything except assault starting positions.

 

The only good part about the maps is that most players have a very very very bad knowledge about tactics and strategy in WoT, so these bad designs are not that big of a problem, since a huge majority of the players are simply to bad to exploit them. If the average player was better at WoT tactics (not driving out in huge open areas with bushes on the other side, driving into obvious crossifres, contesting irrelevant areas etc), many maps would become borderline impossible to play.


Edited by Dava_117, 11 April 2018 - 12:29 PM.


LordMuffin #10 Posted 11 April 2018 - 01:28 PM

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View PostDava_117, on 11 April 2018 - 12:26 PM, said:

 

Many maps have the, only 1 part is useful. Live oaks, Steppes, El Halluf etc.

 

 

On Prokhorovka

I have had extremely many successful pushes along the 1 line with my Strv S1 and 1 other light tank and 1 guy in mid.

 

Like the three of us have multiple times been able to, without taking damage, clear out the entire 1-2 line and enemies on the mid ridge.

 

Tundra.

No village on the Tundra I play. Heavy flank doesn't lead to a good area, especially not if arty is on the map. Medium side can push, but once again, defending side get the better positions. 

 

Ensk

It is won by the team with the better heavy tanks. And that's it.

 

El Halluf is bad because all important fighting is done in a 20×20m square in almost every battle.

It is very easy to hold the other half of the map from any push.

 

Maps which have 1 small area that is the only relevant part are bad maps.

So Live oaks should probably be categorised as bad instead. 


Edited by LordMuffin, 11 April 2018 - 01:31 PM.


Dava_117 #11 Posted 11 April 2018 - 02:06 PM

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View PostLordMuffin, on 11 April 2018 - 01:28 PM, said:

Many maps have the, only 1 part is useful. Live oaks, Steppes, El Halluf etc.

Yes, it's true. But not all of them are bad, IMO. Mostly depends on how a victory on the less important flanck can influence them major one. In El Halluf or Steppes a victory on the "secondary" flank can, greatly influence the outcome of the battle. Winning city in Live Oaks or Valley in Lakeville give far less advantage to the winning team.

 

 

On Prokhorovka

I have had extremely many successful pushes along the 1 line with my Strv S1 and 1 other light tank and 1 guy in mid.

Not saying it doesn't happens, but how frequent are those situation? In the perfect condition, I personally lead the push and spotted targets on that line in ST-I or IS-4, but you need a perfect matchup without arty and too much invisible TDs. Far more frequent is the case in wich the middle snipe hill, taking down spotted targets and supporting a push.

 

Like the three of us have multiple times been able to, without taking damage, clear out the entire 1-2 line and enemies on the mid ridge.

 

Tundra.

No village on the Tundra I play. Heavy flank doesn't lead to a good area, especially not if arty is on the map. Medium side can push, but once again, defending side get the better positions. 

To the east of HT lane there is a small village, with coal piles and some wooden houses that can frequently and easily allows early spot and damage. Also arty is not really a problem for both sides: once a flank is wion, fast veicles can quickly swarm to the most frequent arty posion while hard covers are presents to help slow HT.

 

Ensk

It is won by the team with the better heavy tanks. And that's it.

A good HT player may surely help, but the same may be said for LTs and MTs players in other maps like Murovanka or Malinovka. The only problem of this map is that it's really small for high tier games.

El Halluf is bad because all important fighting is done in a 20×20m square in almost every battle.

It is very easy to hold the other half of the map from any push.

The south is easyer to hold, but not impossible to push. It's an high risk high reward flank because winning south means removing arty and start a crossfire on the main flank. 

Maps which have 1 small area that is the only relevant part are bad maps.

So Live oaks should probably be categorised as bad instead. 

 

Sorry for replying in the quote, but with phone it's pretty hard to split quoted text... :)


Edited by Dava_117, 11 April 2018 - 02:08 PM.


Simeon85 #12 Posted 11 April 2018 - 02:21 PM

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1 line pushes on Prohk are becoming more common IMO because they lowered that area down, so unless it's a type 5 or Maus, most tanks can't be shot in the side if they sit in the lowest parts. You have to wait until they get near the ends or get much closer to them and peak the ridge yourself. 

 

A game I had there the other day a T95 just pushed right up the 1 line and was immune from any flanking fire because you just couldn't see it. 



Slyspy #13 Posted 11 April 2018 - 02:25 PM

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Attacking always going to be riskier than defending unless you have some kind of local advantage. 

SlyMeerkat #14 Posted 11 April 2018 - 02:28 PM

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I dont tend to take these sort of information in to mind and just play with the hand im dealt as best i can and i you cant beat them, join them but at same time possibly use it to your advantage such as letting your team be the meat shields whilst you shot from cover or unspotted position such as a bush or something, i dont know but thats how i play it sometimes anyway   

CmdRatScabies #15 Posted 11 April 2018 - 04:14 PM

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Ruinberg E6 there is a friggin' window they can shoot through onto the field?  Like wtf?

pecopad #16 Posted 11 April 2018 - 04:28 PM

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View PostSimeon85, on 11 April 2018 - 02:21 PM, said:

1 line pushes on Prohk are becoming more common IMO because they lowered that area down, so unless it's a type 5 or Maus, most tanks can't be shot in the side if they sit in the lowest parts. You have to wait until they get near the ends or get much closer to them and peak the ridge yourself. 

 

A game I had there the other day a T95 just pushed right up the 1 line and was immune from any flanking fire because you just couldn't see it. 

 

Ahhh my favorite tactic, push R and drive up the flank with the T95... see how many hits in the cuppolas I can gather from 150 mts...

 

Only works in platoons because off course that nobody follows you and keeps on camping,or they all just go to the mid or hills....


Edited by pecopad, 11 April 2018 - 04:29 PM.


m1x_angelico #17 Posted 11 April 2018 - 04:43 PM

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Dude, you should seriously consider renaming this topic - [GUIDE] How to better position yourself. 

CmdRatScabies #18 Posted 11 April 2018 - 04:51 PM

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I can't think of a single map that is better in V1.0 than it was in the old version.  How did WG manage to not improve any?  Even by accident you'd have thought one would have been better.

LordMuffin #19 Posted 11 April 2018 - 05:32 PM

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View PostCmdRatScabies, on 11 April 2018 - 04:51 PM, said:

I can't think of a single map that is better in V1.0 than it was in the old version.  How did WG manage to not improve any?  Even by accident you'd have thought one would have been better.

If changes where randomized, you could expect some map to get better.

 

View PostDava_117, on 11 April 2018 - 02:06 PM, said:

 

Sorry for replying in the quote, but with phone it's pretty hard to split quoted text... :)

A problem with Tundra.

South spawn get nice TD locations covering exit from hill which they can use without getting spotted, North spawn doesn't get this.

The main issue though is that the map is cramped. You can't really advance anywhere except over hill or through heavy side.

 

I have won every late game on Prokhorovka with my Strv when I have had 1 non-suicidal or red-line sniping scout on my team by pushing the 1 line. Either by having a scout going across the mid ridge so I can advance and spot, or him spotting and me supporting.

 

You can push south on Halluf, b ut the cost is very high. And chances of success are low.


 

pecopad #20 Posted 11 April 2018 - 06:40 PM

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View PostCmdRatScabies, on 11 April 2018 - 04:51 PM, said:

I can't think of a single map that is better in V1.0 than it was in the old version.  How did WG manage to not improve any?  Even by accident you'd have thought one would have been better.

 

Meta has changed in many maps, so its to early to tell. I actually like Erlenberg and Fjords new versions. Well not like, but I think they are better.

 

I like the Glacier map...


Edited by pecopad, 11 April 2018 - 06:41 PM.





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