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Update 1.0.1 Public Test Feedback - Removal of Premium Ammo/Consumable gold price

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Kandly #1 Posted 12 April 2018 - 02:49 PM

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Commanders,

 

Please share your feedback regarding the removal of Premium Ammo/consumable gold price in the Public Test of Update 1.0.1 below.

 

Cheers,

Kandly



topfox #2 Posted 14 April 2018 - 09:20 AM

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I dont mind if we dont have to use gold to buy consumable but premium ammo.. price should be so high that its not cheap to use them like nowdays. Battles are unfair if example t8 tank can penetrate easy t10 tank. Battles have been unbalanced like this so it would be nice to get earlier balance back.

Dekurgan #3 Posted 14 April 2018 - 06:49 PM

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In its current form this is a pointless change. People will still buy gold and exchange it for in game silver then buy the premium shells anyway. You are just adding another level of admin to the process.

Unless of course you are planning to nerf the exchange rate of gold into silver at some point in the near future. Whilst that wont stop people doing it , you will increase your profits further as it will cost more gold for the same amount of silver. But of course WG don't think like that do they :sceptic:



Spkz1337 #4 Posted 15 April 2018 - 04:00 AM

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Doesn't sound like such a big deal. Most likely, even if not everyone, but the majority of the playerbase buys premium shells and consumables for credit. Users who subscribe to a Premium Account and/or have Premium tanks, can easily afford them. If you want to rebalance the premium shells and consumables, you should approach the problem from its core.

As of now, premium shells and consumables is a huge pay-to-win aspect of the game whether you agree or not. You just press the magical '2' (or whatever it is binded to) key, and suddenly you can penetrate tanks easily what you couldn't penetrate with regular shells before. This is not fair, not just for the free-to-play players (emphasis is mainly on the newer players here with less experience who may not even know what a premium shell/premium consumable/premium account is and they don't even care), but for the tanks which rely on their armor as well. Researching a heavily armored tank, take a super-heavy for example, like an E-100 is pretty much pointless at this point, because everyone just fires premium shells at you, and you get penetrated pretty much every single time.

Now, I get that this is not a final change and probably (hopefully) more to come, but come on, let's be real here. This does barely, if anything as for rebalancing the whole stuff.

If you want to approach this issue and change it the way players actually want, the way it would make sense, and the way to make things actually balanced, the best approach would be either to remove premium shells entirely (and fine-tuning some guns while at it), or make new kinds of premium(?) shells with higher alpha BUT with lower penetration at the same time, or vice-versa. Be creative with it, possibilities are pretty much endless.

Small changes like this, especially the way WG sells/promotes it as a fascinating rebalancing what players are thriving for, for literal years now, just to make them calm down, won't do any better especially on the longer run. WG might think they can fool players, but the ones who actually play this game and care about the game they like, will just know that this is basically nothing.

Edited by Spkz1337, 15 April 2018 - 04:05 AM.


Homer_J #5 Posted 15 April 2018 - 08:28 AM

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View PostDekurgan, on 14 April 2018 - 06:49 PM, said:

In its current form this is a pointless change. People will still buy gold and exchange it for in game silver 

 

Nobody does that, you just buy a Fort Knox which has all the credits you need.

 

The problem with having the shells available with gold is that the price is fixed to multiples of 1 gold or the equivalent in credits.

And the feature where the game will reset to buying with gold.

 

Removing the gold price means they can make adjustments to the shell price more easily.  It also means that they can remove all consumables and premium ammo from anyone wanting an account reset, which will make that option much less appealing to wannabe rerolls.

 

I'm all for it, just for the convenience of not having to switch the buying option to credits every time I get a new tank / change gun / change turret.

 

It's going to have a big impact on the Dingers when we can't call it gold ammo any more.  It's going to mean a total rebrand.


Edited by Homer_J, 15 April 2018 - 08:30 AM.


Dekurgan #6 Posted 15 April 2018 - 09:44 AM

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View PostHomer_J, on 15 April 2018 - 07:28 AM, said:

 

Nobody does that, you just buy a Fort Knox which has all the credits you need.

 

The problem with having the shells available with gold is that the price is fixed to multiples of 1 gold or the equivalent in credits.

And the feature where the game will reset to buying with gold.

 

Removing the gold price means they can make adjustments to the shell price more easily.  It also means that they can remove all consumables and premium ammo from anyone wanting an account reset, which will make that option much less appealing to wannabe rerolls.

 

I'm all for it, just for the convenience of not having to switch the buying option to credits every time I get a new tank / change gun / change turret.

 

It's going to have a big impact on the Dingers when we can't call it gold ammo any more.  It's going to mean a total rebrand.

 

Whilst the Fort Knox is the best deal not everyone can or wants to spend over £85 on purchasing that quantity so it isnt the the all round viable alternative.

And removing the ability to purchase premium ammo for gold will not stop people calling it gold ammo (and using the usual gold noob insults that usually accompany such use). WG may be attempting a re-brand as you put it but i very much doubt it will actually work. This is a lip service change to the mechanics of purchasing premium ammo with zero meaningful content. 


Edited by Dekurgan, 15 April 2018 - 09:45 AM.


Homer_J #7 Posted 15 April 2018 - 09:50 AM

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View PostDekurgan, on 15 April 2018 - 09:44 AM, said:

 

WG may be attempting a re-brand 

The Dingers aren't WG, contrary to popular belief.

 

http://eu.wargaming..../wot/500026231/

 

Quote

We are noobs, bots and afk'ers...but we shoot gold :)


Dekurgan #8 Posted 15 April 2018 - 11:21 AM

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View PostHomer_J, on 15 April 2018 - 08:50 AM, said:

The Dingers aren't WG, contrary to popular belief.

 

http://eu.wargaming..../wot/500026231/

 

Quote

We are noobs, bots and afk'ers...but we shoot gold :)

 

Ahh i see where you are coming from with the "Dingers" thing.  Sorry I thought it was another term used to refer to people who fire premium ammo all the time. (There are so many different terms used these days i've lost track of them all). :teethhappy:

Homer_J #9 Posted 15 April 2018 - 11:46 AM

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View PostDekurgan, on 15 April 2018 - 11:21 AM, said:

 

Ahh i see where you are coming from with the "Dingers" thing.  Sorry I thought it was another term used to refer to people who fire premium ammo all the time. 

We do.



La_Vie #10 Posted 15 April 2018 - 05:12 PM

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All I can say is that the removal of gold hells is coming too late, the gold spam is real since the italian marathon

Scorilo #11 Posted 16 April 2018 - 09:16 AM

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You want to make a real beneficial  impact on this game?

Remove premium ammo, easy as that !

 

Or lower the cost of premium and put a cap on how much you can buy per battle.


Edited by Scorilo, 16 April 2018 - 10:09 AM.


Trostani #12 Posted 16 April 2018 - 09:59 AM

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Removing premium ammo in current form would be best for this game. Then should be added alternative ammunition that are equal to standard but have slightly different use. HEAT with higher pen, lower damage and very low shell speed. HESH similar to HE with lower damage but higher chance to damage crew/internal modules. APCR that are very fast but loss penetration over distance massively, etc. Maybe even 4-5 types of shell should be available for each tank, players could choose ammunition depends from their play style.

And I hope that WG introduce penetration loss depend from gun, or even better - from shell. This will force tank designed to close combat to do this, not red line camping.



cafito #13 Posted 16 April 2018 - 10:47 AM

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Nice move WG

No gold ammo no problem 

Not the first epic idea that has come out of your dev team

 



TankkiPoju #14 Posted 16 April 2018 - 12:46 PM

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View PostTrostani, on 16 April 2018 - 09:59 AM, said:

Removing premium ammo in current form would be best for this game

 

There was a brief time on test server last year, when there was no premium ammo at all available on tanks.

 

The end result was every tier 10 battle was basically tier 10 heavies shooting each other until timer runs out.



Franiac #15 Posted 16 April 2018 - 03:22 PM

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The problem is that the removal of premium ammo raises other issues.

I am not defending premium ammo at all but here are two major things that have to be addressed accordingly:

 

1. You have to rebalance certain tanks (not going into detail but Type 4/5, Obj. 268v4, super heavies in general....). The current super heavy meta is the party pooper #1 in the game and it gets way worse without premium ammo. I share Circonflexes opinion: Every Type 5 and v4 deserves all premium shells available in the world. That's the only way to "balance" them. And even then the v4 laughs at you.

 

2. 3/5/7 MM... If you don't remove it entirely (which I'd vote for anyway) make it at least the lowest priority (5/10 first, then 15/15, then 3/5/7). Fighting a T7 in any T5 tank is hard enough WITH premium ammo. This is such a small move that would result in a much better gaming experience INSTANTLY (even without the ammo discussion). Whoever thinks 3/5/7 should be top priority doesn't play the game obviously.

 

~ Franiac



coco6802 #16 Posted 17 April 2018 - 05:21 PM

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Hi,

I spent the afternoon to test Frontline, I am not going to return on this mode... But a thing irritated me, golden shells!!! For me they haven't their place in the game.. You takes your heavy armored, you angles perfectly and you are broken up by a medium which fires only with the gold!! And it was that in each party! Then remove them, or at least restrict them.. The parts become unplayable!



DrEsqueleto #17 Posted 17 April 2018 - 10:17 PM

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View PostFraniac, on 16 April 2018 - 03:22 PM, said:

The problem is that the removal of premium ammo raises other issues.

I am not defending premium ammo at all but here are two major things that have to be addressed accordingly:

 

1. You have to rebalance certain tanks (not going into detail but Type 4/5, Obj. 268v4, super heavies in general....). The current super heavy meta is the party pooper #1 in the game and it gets way worse without premium ammo. I share Circonflexes opinion: Every Type 5 and v4 deserves all premium shells available in the world. That's the only way to "balance" them. And even then the v4 laughs at you.

 

2. 3/5/7 MM... If you don't remove it entirely (which I'd vote for anyway) make it at least the lowest priority (5/10 first, then 15/15, then 3/5/7). Fighting a T7 in any T5 tank is hard enough WITH premium ammo. This is such a small move that would result in a much better gaming experience INSTANTLY (even without the ammo discussion). Whoever thinks 3/5/7 should be top priority doesn't play the game obviously.

 

~ Franiac

 

View Postcoco6802, on 17 April 2018 - 05:21 PM, said:

Hi,

I spent the afternoon to test Frontline, I am not going to return on this mode... But a thing irritated me, golden shells!!! For me they haven't their place in the game.. You takes your heavy armored, you angles perfectly and you are broken up by a medium which fires only with the gold!! And it was that in each party! Then remove them, or at least restrict them.. The parts become unplayable!

 

I totally agree with them.

For example when I get to battle with my (super) heavies or TD's, I almost always get spammed with gold/premium ammo. Hardly ever I get spammed at with normal ammo...

This made me quit this game several years ago, christmas 2017 I started again after 2+ years or so. I only started again because friends asked me to join them again and they said things had been changed and a lot of new stuff added ... 

But they (conveniently) forgot to tell me about the 3/5/7 template and gold ammo still OP as hell. :justwait:

 

IMHO, 3/5/7 should be removed or at least set at the lowest priority and than even further away.

Best thing is to only make +1, -1 and 0 (zero) tier difference, this will also make balancing ammo a lot easier and it will improve gameplay a lot and bringing back the fun / love for this game again.

 

---

 

I also would suggest to go for it asap, like end of this month (april) or so, Remove the gold option now.

Early next month start changing premium ammo to a standard from where you can work from.  Like lowering the premium ammo penetration to just (a few mm) above the normal ammo, and lowering the alpha dmg by let's say 50%

or (perhaps even better)

give All same diameter shells the same (lower) penetration and (lower) alpha.

After that has been done, start reviewing feedback about the performance and test certain changes (for example) on the alpha test server.

Filter out the problems of people naggin that they can't point, shoot, pen and damage the front of tanks anymore.

Make a link to a location where people can learn tactics and promote it. (How to kill a tank not from the front, situations where you need to use tactics ...)

 



TIGERPIG323 #18 Posted 23 April 2018 - 12:40 AM

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Solution to the problem depends on how much money Wargaming makes from selling gold ammo. If the premium ammo is only a minor part of income and a minor part of motivation for players to spend money on the game, then i guess Wargaming might rebalance APCR and other premium ammo in way to improve the game to make it more balanced, less pay to win and all around more enjoyable for majority of players. If so, then i think the best way to balance APCR, is to make it cheaper and situational. It could be done by lowering damage and decreasing accuracy rapidly over distance. This would lead to players rather choose AP in the most situations and only switching to APCR, when standing 1v1 at close range against higher tier or heavily armored opponent. Player using APCR is happy, as he has some way to fight, even when odds are against him. His opponent is happy, as he takes less damage, so his armor gives him some advantage and he does not feel cheated. It would be quite realistic, as APCR ammo weights less, so in real life, it really does have less accuracy and less damage potential. But like i said... it depends how much money Wargaming makes on gold ammo (directly or indirectly with premium). They are very much aware of APCR ammo real life stats and disadvantages and they are very much aware of players hating gold ammo since day 1 and still they have chosen to keep it that way for 7 years.

 


Edited by TIGERPIG323, 23 April 2018 - 08:34 AM.


Alidore #19 Posted 02 May 2018 - 08:27 PM

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Ah, I understand. You want to change premium ammo, but are reluctant to if it's been bought with real money, so the change will come when all the real money ammo is expended. :)

Vale90 #20 Posted 02 May 2018 - 10:58 PM

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Me and my friends left this game because the gold ammo spam, that makes useless every efforts (and I'm not talking of days put in the game, but months) in  griding heavy tanks and TD, especially T95.

WOT should copy the formula used in World of warships, that is more skill based (since there are no gold shell) and there are missions/containers that help you each day.

If you want to solve the problem mostly debated by the community, then delete for once for all gold premiums, because the change you made in this last patch is just pointless. 

 







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