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Tiger II


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_DIANITE_ #1 Posted 12 April 2018 - 07:14 PM

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Why doesn't the Tiger II get buffed to match the new heavy tanks who are in all aspects better?

It is more than underpowered against other t8 heavy tanks.



Jigabachi #2 Posted 12 April 2018 - 07:21 PM

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Why don't all those other tanks get balanced instead?
Please google a term called "powercreep".

TheOddRogue #3 Posted 12 April 2018 - 07:23 PM

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Give it 390 alpha gun and improve turret armor, done. you're welcome wg. 

tank276 #4 Posted 12 April 2018 - 07:25 PM

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Who knows?

Maybe because it is German and not Russian.

Kappa

The E75 is decent  though, although if u r looking for a top notch t9 heavy, AMX 4 mle 51 is the way to go



FatigueGalaxy #5 Posted 12 April 2018 - 09:19 PM

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Tbh, almost all tier 8 heavies are trash. I mean, tier 8 meds and lights at least have some mobility, TDs have excellent guns (too bad they have 1.000 hitpoints so they die in two hits when bottom tier...) - you can work with this in +2 tiers battles. But tier 8 heavies? They have nothing when they are bottom tier. Average guns with bad DPM, mediocre mobility and useless armour. Maybe Caernarvon works because it has excellent firepower so it can do a lot of damage before it dies (it's a still slow, huge, paper tank) and 50 100 because of autoloader, and IS-3, of course, because it's a good "package" overall, but playing anything else is just suffering.

 

Fix tier 8 MM, problem solved. Even VK 45.02 A is fine when it doesn't have to fight tier 9 and 10 tanks all the time. After all, this is how HT always worked: bad when bottom tier, average when -1 and good when top tier. It always was like that - you suffered when bottom tier but could carry hard when top tier. Now you suffer way more often - and this needs fixing.

Buffs won't change a thing. Tiger II is already excellent support tank (and this is the only thing you can do as bottom tier) because of its gun and it's still a good tank when top tier. Buffing it will only make it better when top tier and this doesn't matter because you hardly ever see tier 6 tanks.

 

Of course, after fixing tier 8 MM, some overtuned tanks should be brought back in line (namely: Caernarvon, VK 100.01 P).



fwhaatpiraat #6 Posted 12 April 2018 - 10:42 PM

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The mobility fits the amount of effective armor it has very well.

mtnm #7 Posted 12 April 2018 - 10:43 PM

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View Post_DIANITE_, on 12 April 2018 - 07:14 PM, said:

Why doesn't the Tiger II get buffed to match the new heavy tanks who are in all aspects better?

It is more than underpowered against other t8 heavy tanks.

 

War gaming tries to squeeze some "free" XP from you during the Tiger 2 grinding. It does this for other nations too. But don't do give in. Keep it for upgrading modules on the E75.



TankkiPoju #8 Posted 13 April 2018 - 07:50 AM

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View PostJigabachi, on 12 April 2018 - 07:21 PM, said:

Why don't all those other tanks get balanced instead?
Please google a term called "powercreep".

 

Tiger 2 has been clearly worse than IS3 since 2011. That's not exactly easy to explain with "power creep".

 

Not to mention WG actually NERFED Tiger 2 few years ago by removing the top engine... for "historical accuracy",

 

 



_CrownVictoria_ #9 Posted 13 April 2018 - 07:54 AM

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Tiger II is actually a pretty good tank. Yes it's armor isn't OP, Yes the turret is easy to pen but if you play well you can do al lot of damage because the gun is pretty good! 

Thejagdpanther #10 Posted 13 April 2018 - 07:59 AM

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View Postfwhaatpiraat, on 12 April 2018 - 10:42 PM, said:

The mobility fits the amount of effective armor it has very well.

 

exactly like the 268.4 or 430u

:trollface:


Edited by Thejagdpanther, 13 April 2018 - 07:59 AM.


kaneloon #11 Posted 13 April 2018 - 08:05 AM

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View Post_CrownVictoria_, on 13 April 2018 - 06:54 AM, said:

Tiger II is actually a pretty good tank. Yes it's armor isn't OP, Yes the turret is easy to pen but if you play well you can do al lot of damage because the gun is pretty good! 

 

But if you play a heavy as a sniper it won't be appreciated by your team ...

Agent_327 #12 Posted 13 April 2018 - 08:14 AM

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View Postkaneloon, on 13 April 2018 - 08:05 AM, said:

 

But if you play a heavy as a sniper it won't be appreciated by your team ...

Well the game is not about team appreciation. It's about playing the tanks as they are best played. If you are sniping in your IS-3 you are not doing it right but in a Tiger II it's a very good tactic.



spuriousmonkey #13 Posted 13 April 2018 - 08:26 AM

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IS-3 has a good sniping gun. Better than the Tiger II,.

Simeon85 #14 Posted 13 April 2018 - 08:31 AM

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It's a support heavy, it probably has the best gun of any tier 8 heavy, it just needs those attributes buffing up, which means more DPM, more accuracy, better gun handling, more hit points and some better mobility etc.

 

People consistently ask for it to have it's armour buffed, but over bufing armour is the problem with the game right now, not all heavies need to have idiot proof armour, we have enough tanks like that. If you want to play a super armoured German heavy at tier 8 then the OP VK fits that bill. The Tiger 2 should be a heavy that requires a bit more thought, make it like Tiger 1 at tier 7, not greatly armoured but very good gun, high DPM, high hit points, decent mobility. 



Agent_327 #15 Posted 13 April 2018 - 08:31 AM

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View Postspuriousmonkey, on 13 April 2018 - 08:26 AM, said:

IS-3 has a good sniping gun. Better than the Tiger II,.

Yes aplha is better. All other stats are worse. So no. :facepalm:



spuriousmonkey #16 Posted 13 April 2018 - 08:34 AM

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View PostAgent_327, on 13 April 2018 - 09:31 AM, said:

Yes aplha is better. All other stats are worse. So no. :facepalm:

 

You forget about the amazing soft stats. it hits everything. Especially if you do not aim.

 

 



TankkiPoju #17 Posted 13 April 2018 - 11:17 AM

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View PostAgent_327, on 13 April 2018 - 08:31 AM, said:

Yes aplha is better. All other stats are worse. So no. :facepalm:

 

Nope. Tiger 2 has 0.12 turret traverse dispersion. IS3 has 0.08.

 

Basically it means IS3 has better gun handling than Tiger 2 while turning the turret. Funnily this balancing stat isn't visible in WoT, because rasha.

 

 



Borstel53 #18 Posted 23 April 2018 - 12:17 AM

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In my opinion the easiest and best way to buff the Tiger II is to improve the alpha damage what leads to a better dpm with the same reload time. If I am not wrong with this, the Challenger also uses a 105mm gun and has 360 alpha damage. That would be all the Tiger needs, maybe 5-10mm more frontal turret armor, so it still is not good, but makes it more bouncy when RNG is with you.

Shaade_Silentpaw #19 Posted 23 April 2018 - 01:00 AM

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View PostFatigueGalaxy, on 12 April 2018 - 08:19 PM, said:

Tbh, almost all tier 8 heavies are trash.

 

It's funny now that I think of it, most of the really good ones are premium tanks.

AMX M4 49/Liberte, T26E5/Patriot, 252u/Defender, Lowe, Somua SM...hmm.



FatigueGalaxy #20 Posted 23 April 2018 - 06:36 PM

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View PostShaade_Silentpaw, on 23 April 2018 - 01:00 AM, said:

 

It's funny now that I think of it, most of the really good ones are premium tanks.

AMX M4 49/Liberte, T26E5/Patriot, 252u/Defender, Lowe, Somua SM...hmm.

 

Newer is always better in online games. New heroes/characters in mobas, new weapons in shooters, new items in mmorpgs and so - are stronger than older ones. It can't be helped, this is how it works.

WG tried to make premium tanks weaker than tech tree counterparts (panther 8.8, STA-2, T-54 mod. 1) and what was the response from players? Outrage. People won't buy something that's considered "weaker" than something they can get for free.

So we can avoid strong premium tanks. WG's mistake was giving some premiums strong combination of stats that work together really well. So on paper those tanks are fine but in actual game they are too strong. For example: Patriot is too fast for armour it has and Defender has too much alpha which boosts effectiveness of its armour (short exposure).

 

I don't think Tiger II is that weak. Gun is excellent and armour is good enough. It also has good view range (390 vs 350-370 on soviet heavies). The main problem is tier 8 MM, which makes you think the tank is trash because you are outclassed in 90% of your battles.

If anything, I'd give it higher RoF since mobility and armour are mediocre. Tiger II is all about its gun anyway so it should be powerful, not just slightly better than other heavies.






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