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A non-placebo reporting system for WoT. Please.

for the love of jesus christ do something

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Derethim #1 Posted 16 April 2018 - 09:47 PM

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Now, this may seem like a ragepost, but I assure you I'm completely calm, even though slightly frustrated and sad.

The way the current complaint system works is unbelievably stupid - I just got teamkilled twice in a row, once at the last second of a match, because "it's just fun", but I wanted to complete a "Survive" mission and the other time.. well..

 

Lakeville. North spawn. Our Type 5, I'll call him Adam (not his real nickname ofc), proceeds to rush to the city at the incredible speed of 20KPH, dies almost instantly, because he exposed his whole side to the enemy team's TDs camping the small hill on their side. This is nothing unusual, Adam is simply a bad player in a slow heavy tank, probably used to playing lower tier games, where the spotting range is lower. However...

 

He is in a platoon - and his platoonmate - we'll call him Monkey, because his ingame name was a kind of monkey and, well, because of what happened, proceeds to put his 183mm HE shell from his FV 183 into my AMX 13 90, instakilling me for "not spotting in time". I loaded about 15 seconds later, it just happens from time-to-time, maybe the server had enough of me grinding it for today, but the point is I went into the middle just a little bit late, but enough for Adam to throw a fit and for his platoonmate Monkey, to one-shot me because of it.

 

The rest of the match goes like this...

 

The enemy proceeds to make use of the middle being open and two LT players rush in a minute after Monkey killed me.

Both shout out to the whole chat for the whole team to report me and since the current complaint system works on negative points, the team may have just believed them and I may have some racked-up.

Already got banned for this once - I NEVER even teamkill, I don't suicide when things look grim, I don't rage at other players (altough the wardrobe's bent door next to me might disagree) and I'm not a nuisance ingame.

 

This match result says everything about how it went for my team, by the way.

shot_016.jpg

 

If Wargaming woud be to, I don't know, add a working complaint system, that is not a complete placebo, so that the playerbase doesen't complain, WoT would be a lot happier place.

Teamkills should not be tolerated, heavily fined and bans enforced. I understand there is a lot of unwarranted reports every day, hundreds of them. But there must be a way to improve the complaint system to be more fair and functioning. At least some prompt, that you have been reported would be nice.

 

What would be nice, if there was a team of moderators ingame. A large one at that, that would be paid by ingame currency or a tiny payment of 20 cents per report handled (small price to pay for improving your product).

On top of them, one to three people from WG, that would handle complaints on said moderators, so that it doesen't turn into Morthal Online.

Some few responsible adults, that would enjoy ingame rewards in turn for handling and recieving complaints.

 

To handle the ammount of traffic they'd recieve, there could be 50-100 of them and players would be reduced to having only 1 complaint per month.

Or something like that...

There must be a way to improve on this.


Edited by Derethim, 16 April 2018 - 09:49 PM.


unhappy_bunny #2 Posted 16 April 2018 - 10:46 PM

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My advice is to open a ticket with support. 

Attach the replay. Be specific about the time in the replay that the incident occurred. 

Be polite, be accurate with your complaint. 

 

I have had a couple of tickets treated (or that appear to have been treated) seriously. I have certainly had encouraging responses back. I have no idea if action was taken, but that is my fault for not noting the players names and checking up on their accounts. 



NUKLEAR_SLUG #3 Posted 16 April 2018 - 11:29 PM

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View PostDerethim, on 16 April 2018 - 09:47 PM, said:

 

If Wargaming woud be to, I don't know, add a working complaint system, that is not a complete placebo, so that the playerbase doesen't complain, WoT would be a lot happier place.

 

 

Tell you what, you get the players to stop reporting people for stupid craplike "played an arty" and "shot me from a bush" and I'm sure WG will tighten up the auto-report system. Until then..

BP_OMowe #4 Posted 17 April 2018 - 12:30 AM

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View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 16 April 2018 - 11:29 PM, said:

Tell you what, you get the players to stop reporting people for stupid craplike "played an arty" and "shot me from a bush" and I'm sure WG will tighten up the auto-report system. Until then..

 

Very simple, make frivolous reporting a bannable offence in itself and it'll get sorted.

 

As for those who will pop in and state it has to be a fully automated system, I can only point out that Failbook and OOgle seems to manage with a lot more users to handle.



Strappster #5 Posted 17 April 2018 - 12:40 AM

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View PostDerethim, on 16 April 2018 - 08:47 PM, said:

What would be nice, if there was a team of moderators ingame. A large one at that, that would be paid by ingame currency or a tiny payment of 20 cents per report handled (small price to pay for improving your product).

 

There are 200 Dingers and we're complete no-lifers who spend all our spare time playing the game, I'm sure we could negotiate a fair price and we'd handle all complaints seriously.

 

"Why did I get a ban?! He was the one firing gold ammo!!!"

"Yes. And you weren't."

 

 

View Postunhappy_bunny, on 16 April 2018 - 09:46 PM, said:

My advice is to open a ticket with support. 

Attach the replay. Be specific about the time in the replay that the incident occurred. 

Be polite, be accurate with your complaint. 

 

I was going to do this after I was TK'd by an arty for not suiscouting when I had 46hp remaining. Then I realised it'd effectively be me saying, "could you do something about this idiot, please, and also give me a chat ban for my language because good Lord I'm a potty-mouthed cretin".

 

That's not to say the guy didn't deserve a punishment for the TK but I took solace from the fact that two enemy came out of the exact area I was spotting and I would have been perfectly placed to take care of them but instead they were able to go to town on that arty player.



Shaade_Silentpaw #6 Posted 17 April 2018 - 01:25 AM

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The whole TK system needs an overhaul tbh.

From the automated system's dependency on number of hits taken without consideration of damage done, to the lack of in-game punishment (significant loss of credits/xp), the completely pointless reporting system, WG's copy/paste support ticket replies, to the fact that you even risk getting auto-banned for trying to unflip a team mate. (It happened to me, got several copy/paste support replies until someone finally decided to actually read it and watch my replay - then their reply was essentially "tough luck buddy, it is what it is, etc." )

 

And before anyone tries to argue about the logistics of a decent system - I don't think there's any doubt that WG can easily afford to create an actual worthwhile system with a team of real people at the helm of it, they just refuse to do so.


Edited by Shaade_Silentpaw, 17 April 2018 - 01:26 AM.


Spurtung #7 Posted 17 April 2018 - 01:36 AM

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View PostShaade_Silentpaw, on 17 April 2018 - 02:25 AM, said:

And before anyone tries to argue about the logistics of a decent system - I don't think there's any doubt that WG can easily afford to create an actual worthwhile system with a team of real people at the helm of it, they just refuse to do so.

 

The logic behind that reality is the simplest there is: WG is in it for the money, not for the development of a product. When you let that sink in, you realize you're proposing something that costs money, so they'll stick to what they already got.



The_Georgian_One #8 Posted 17 April 2018 - 07:43 AM

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I'd love to have a working reporting system that would punish non-participation, i.e. when you have E100 sniping from base and he gets reported by at least 5 people he would receive a warning (1st offence) no credits/XP for the battle (2nd offence), 1 hour ban (3rd offence), etc.

Slyspy #9 Posted 17 April 2018 - 07:46 AM

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"The complaint system is a complete placebo though it did get me banned once.". 

MeetriX #10 Posted 17 April 2018 - 08:03 AM

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View PostThe_Georgian_One, on 17 April 2018 - 07:43 AM, said:

I'd love to have a working reporting system that would punish non-participation, i.e. when you have E100 sniping from base and he gets reported by at least 5 people he would receive a warning (1st offence) no credits/XP for the battle (2nd offence), 1 hour ban (3rd offence), etc.

 

How much time you spend thinking that before you wrote it?

The_Georgian_One #11 Posted 17 April 2018 - 08:26 AM

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View PostMeetriX, on 17 April 2018 - 08:03 AM, said:

 

How much time you spend thinking that before you wrote it?

 

I don't think it's worth my time, but I'll still ask...what is wrong with my suggestion?

ignaskarate #12 Posted 17 April 2018 - 08:29 AM

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View PostDerethim, on 16 April 2018 - 08:47 PM, said:

Lakeville. North spawn. Our Type 5, I'll call him Adam (not his real nickname ofc), proceeds to rush to the city at the incredible speed of 20KPH, dies almost instantly, because he exposed his whole side to the enemy team's TDs camping the small hill on their side. This is nothing unusual, Adam is simply a bad player in a slow heavy tank, probably used to playing lower tier games, where the spotting range is lower. However...

He is in a platoon - and his platoonmate - we'll call him Monkey, because his ingame name was a kind of monkey and, well, because of what happened, proceeds to put his 183mm HE shell from his FV 183 into my AMX 13 90, instakilling me for "not spotting in time". I loaded about 15 seconds later, it just happens from time-to-time, maybe the server had enough of me grinding it for today, but the point is I went into the middle just a little bit late, but enough for Adam to throw a fit and for his platoonmate Monkey, to one-shot me because of it.

 

nothing unusual, same map, same story happened to me, but 183 after all goes and drowns himself



Homer_J #13 Posted 17 April 2018 - 08:36 AM

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View PostDerethim, on 16 April 2018 - 09:47 PM, said:

 

On top of them, one to three people from WG, that would handle complaints on said moderators,

If you seriously think that 1 to 3 moderators could oversee a system for 800000 active players, even if they had only one complaint a day, they you are seriously underestimating.

 

Teamkills do happen by mistake, so some have to be tolerated.  I can remember how the old system worked, you had to send a screenshot to support who would then judge who to ban. As long as you typed sorry after you teamkilled then you were safe.  The automated system is far far better.

 

And I wouldn't want to be judged by some pleb who's doing it just for the 20p, even with an appeal system.  So I get banned because someone doesn't like the fact that I like arty and think noobs have a right to play.  How long is your appeal system going to take?  More than 2 minutes and I've already been punished unfairly.



Homer_J #14 Posted 17 April 2018 - 08:41 AM

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View PostThe_Georgian_One, on 17 April 2018 - 08:26 AM, said:

 

I don't think it's worth my time, but I'll still ask...what is wrong with my suggestion?

 

View PostThe_Georgian_One, on 17 April 2018 - 07:43 AM, said:

I'd love to have a working reporting system that would punish non-participation, i.e. when you have E100 sniping from base and he gets reported by at least 5 people he would receive a warning (1st offence) no credits/XP for the battle (2nd offence), 1 hour ban (3rd offence), etc.

 

Your definition of "non participation" to start with.

 

And this is why the OP's idea is a bad one.  Players will be judging other players based on how they think the game should be played.



Strappster #15 Posted 17 April 2018 - 08:43 AM

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View PostThe_Georgian_One, on 17 April 2018 - 07:26 AM, said:

I don't think it's worth my time, but I'll still ask...what is wrong with my suggestion?

 

You're asking to be able to report people for playing the game in a way that you don't think is right. I'm sure you have good intentions but firstly, ha, no, it'd be abused all the time and secondly, there is no second because it's essentially the first point repeated but in capitals.

The_Georgian_One #16 Posted 17 April 2018 - 08:53 AM

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View PostHomer_J, on 17 April 2018 - 08:41 AM, said:

 

 

Your definition of "non participation" to start with.

 

And this is why the OP's idea is a bad one.  Players will be judging other players based on how they think the game should be played.

 

View PostStrappster, on 17 April 2018 - 08:43 AM, said:

 

You're asking to be able to report people for playing the game in a way that you don't think is right. I'm sure you have good intentions but firstly, ha, no, it'd be abused all the time and secondly, there is no second because it's essentially the first point repeated but in capitals.

 

My definition of non-participation is clearly different from yours, but it has to be the same as the other 5 random people on my team for the report to work. And it's just a proposal, the details of it may be different. It would be easy to implement and make automated.

 

The game, in my understanding, is all about working together. If you're sitting in base in E100 and not fighting on front line you are actively hindering your team and its chances to win. It means someone else has to be taking the burden of carrying your team through the game. Why this kind of behavior should be rewarded? These people often do not understand the negative impact they have on the team performance. If they got a warning after battle there is at least a slight chance they would reflect on their behavior/playstyle.



MeetriX #17 Posted 17 April 2018 - 09:00 AM

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View PostThe_Georgian_One, on 17 April 2018 - 08:26 AM, said:

 

I don't think it's worth my time, but I'll still ask...what is wrong with my suggestion?

 

View PostHomer_J, on 17 April 2018 - 08:41 AM, said:

 

 

Your definition of "non participation" to start with.

 

And this is why the OP's idea is a bad one.  Players will be judging other players based on how they think the game should be played.

 

View PostStrappster, on 17 April 2018 - 08:43 AM, said:

 

You're asking to be able to report people for playing the game in a way that you don't think is right. I'm sure you have good intentions but firstly, ha, no, it'd be abused all the time and secondly, there is no second because it's essentially the first point repeated but in capitals.

 

That is exactly the reason why you can't give power to the masses. 

There will be always asshats who use system wrong intentionally or accidently.

This is not a democracy, devs. set the rules of the game.

 

Stanford prison expetiment is the most famous example of how power corrupts normal people.

https://en.m.wikiped...ison_experiment

 



Gremlin182 #18 Posted 17 April 2018 - 09:00 AM

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The game has an incredibly biased and unreliable reporting system called the playerbase.

There are just far to many idiots around for uis to take reports from players and act on them.

The guy who one shotted the OPs tank for not spotting is just as likely to send in false reports backed by his friend.

It just could not work.

 

So we have an automatic system that's supposed to work by judging all TKs and damage accidental or deliberate

We don't know precisely how its set up but I assume its based on accidents will be rare so not punish the player too badly but an idiot is likely to be one much more frequently and get weeded out.

Wargaming don't want to or cannot afford to employ staff to watch thousands of replays so its automated with a review system for when they have to check manually.

I certainly don't want to waste my playing time obsessing over a one off incident sending in reports and replays though I have done that a couple of times.

It just does not happen enough for it to be worth my while.

 

System could be tightened up though.

My suggestion would be that in all cases of team damage that the auto system punishes it should additionally punish the player with zero xp and credits for the game and no progress in any missions they were trying for.

Game never happened, but you incurred a penalty for the damage. and also have to pay your repair ammo and consumables costs.



Strappster #19 Posted 17 April 2018 - 09:02 AM

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View PostThe_Georgian_One, on 17 April 2018 - 07:53 AM, said:

My definition of non-participation is clearly different from yours, but it has to be the same as the other 5 random people on my team for the report to work. And it's just a proposal, the details of it may be different. It would be easy to implement and make automated.

 

"Hahaha everyone report the arty players for playing arty!!!"

 

View PostThe_Georgian_One, on 17 April 2018 - 07:53 AM, said:

The game, in my understanding, is all about working together. If you're sitting in base in E100 and not fighting on front line you are actively hindering your team and its chances to win. It means someone else has to be taking the burden of carrying your team through the game. Why this kind of behavior should be rewarded? These people often do not understand the negative impact they have on the team performance. If they got a warning after battle there is at least a slight chance they would reflect on their behavior/playstyle.

 

Don't get me wrong, I agree with your point and am equally frustrated when a top tier super-heavy sits at the back "protecting our cap". But while it's a team game, I've had rounds where I've driven forward in a light, gotten a few spots and some assist and then been ammo-racked by a lucky shot. Should I get the non-participation reports?

 

I've turned around in a top tier heavy because I've seen the other flank fall but by the time I get back, the enemy have withdrawn or been dealt with. Is that non-participation?

 

It's easy to state broad requirements but it's a lot more difficult to ascribe them to specific situations but that's exactly what you'd have to do to implement your proposal; provide clear rules on when someone should be rewarded and when they shouldn't. Even if you had a live impartial moderator watching every battle, non-participation means different things to people. I've been team-killed multiple times in light tanks because I'm not spotting for someone, even though they're sitting so far back anything I spot is outside their draw distance.



Homer_J #20 Posted 17 April 2018 - 09:04 AM

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View PostThe_Georgian_One, on 17 April 2018 - 08:53 AM, said:

 

 

My definition of non-participation is clearly different from yours, but it has to be the same as the other 5 random people on my team for the report to work. 

Unfortunately it's far too easy to find more people who want to impose a strict way of playing each tank, people like the FV183 in the OP.  Light tank didn't do exactly what he wanted so he must be punished.

 

Quote

And it's just a proposal,

And I'm just opposing the proposal.

 

Quote

Why this kind of behavior should be rewarded?

It isn't.  You play bad then you lose more.  That is all the punishment which is required.


Edited by Homer_J, 17 April 2018 - 09:11 AM.





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