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Easing the Grind

Grind stock tank Elite tank

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Thuis001 #1 Posted 17 April 2018 - 07:35 PM

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Hello everyone,

A couple of months ago I posted a topic with the same theme, but that was essentially hated by everyone, so this time I will make one that is less extreme. Anyway, I'm interested to hear what you think of it.

 

Grinding, it's something everyone has to do if they wanna progress the tiers, wether it is to get that next module or tank, or to raise the funds to buy them, at some point you will always come back to it. Today I wanted to talk about the first two, modules and tanks. As it stands now most tanks have a pretty painfull stock grind, often consisting of 1/3-1/2 of the total xp required on your way to an Elite Tank. I would love to see that situation improved which will be beneficial to the players, their teams and EVEN WG will be profiting!

 

Modules grinding:

Currently you have to grind a couple of modules if you wanna Elite a tank, these generally consist out of 1 or more guns, the track, a radio or 2, the engine and in most cases a turret. The main part here would be to lower all the xp costs of these modules to 1/3th of what they currently are, I'll take the M46 Patton (a tank with a fairly painfull stock grind) as an example. (!note, I removed the xp cost of all modules that you can get on the M26 Pershing from the numbers, one would have those unlocked anyway so it wouldn't be really necessary!)

Currently: Right now if you were to grind out the modules on the M46 you would come down to a grand total of 146400xp, this is an incredibly large amount, especially given the fact that the M48 Patton "only" costs 205k to get.

What would change: Rather then having to grind the large sum of 156900xp to get a capable tank this would go down to a 'mere' xp, 48.800xp still quite a bit, but a lot more managable. But I hear you ask, what happens to the xp that got 'removed'? Well, that xp is going to be added to the next tank, in this case it's easy, there is only 1 tank that it leads to so it simply gets added there, the xp cost of the M48 Patton would go from 205k to 302.6k. And while that seems like a big increase, remember, there hasn't been added a single point of xp to the grind, it did however become a lot more fun to do so. Why? well, because rather then having to go trough a PAINFULL grind to get 146400xp you only have to grind a third that way, the rest of the xp you can now grind in a tank that is more capable and fun to play. This will hugely improve enjoyability of a grind. I will go into what happens when a tank leads to multiple tanks a bit later.

 

Tracks and shared guns:

I would like to start with tracks here, simply put, all tracks should be capable of mounting the top modules and equipment, while this might not be historicly correct it will largely improve the grind of tanks that can't mount equipment with the stock tracks. Upgrading them will however improve the ground resistances, perhaps making the ones on the stock tracks a bit worse would encourage upgrading those.

 

Now onto guns: This is split into 2 pieces, the shared AT and 'normal' tank guns, and pointless ones.

Anti-Tank guns:

One of the things that buggers the living hell out of me is that for some reason when AT is added to the name of a gun, this apperantly means one has to research it again. For example: the Charioteer has the exact same guns as the Cent. 7/1, but since the Charioteer has AT added to the name of them you have to grind them again. This is weird, since other classes don't have this either and fairly stupid. Another example is the SU-100, this thing can mount the same top guns has the KV-85, and I already researched both on that tank, however, since the SU is a TD I had to research the same guns AGAIN. Just name them the same and make it so that if you research it on a tank you also get the AT variant unlocked and vice versa rather then the current situation which is weird, annoying and stupid. 

 

Pointless guns:

There are a couple of guns in the game which serve absolutely no purpose whatsoever, since it would be a wall of text I added a couple in the spoiler here:

Spoiler

I added responses to them aswell, if there are others, and I am quite sure there are then just do the same with them.

 

Tanks that lead to multiple others:

When I talked about the module xp I used the M46 as an example, however this tank only leads to the M48 Patton and thus it's fairly easy as for where the xp goes, things change when a tank leads to multiple tanks. Here there are multiple options, either a) the xp gets spread evenly over the different tanks it leads to. (the fair option) although that would mean that if you only pick on of the tanks it leads to one would have to grind a lot less. b) All the xp gets added to the tank you unlock first, so you even out with the first tank, and then the other ones have the same price they currently have. (the best option, I think) or c) the extra xp cost gets added to ALL tanks it leads to, this is however a ****move and should be avoided.

 

The gain for the game:

So far it seems like there hasn't been any gain for the game, unlike what I told in the beginning, however with these changes something very important would happen, let me explain:

while module xp cost goes down to a third of what it currently is, the xp that is removed goes to the cost of the tank it leads to. However, generally and this is mainly for engines, radios and guns, a module is featured on multiple tanks, so while on a single tank not much would happen,  overall the xp cost of a techtree would increase by quite a bit. Why? Well, it's quite simple, the 2/3's of xp for the module would get added to all tanks that feature this module as a top or mid option (mind you, when the top gun on a tank isn't the stock gun on the next the xp cost won't be added, same for radios and engines, that would be a little too much) which would mean that in some extreme case that 2/3's can be added to 5 or 6 tanks. This would be the case with most radios in mid-high tiers for example. Just imagine the increase in use of prem time, gold to convert free xp and boosters that could happen in this case, there would after all be more xp to be ground, and a lot of it at that.

 

The gain for the users:

This will vastly improve the experience players have when grinding a new tank, besides that it will mean that tanks will be shorter in stock config thus less teams will have to deal with it. Not all that difficult.

 

I hope you like the idea, if there's something you want to add or don't like about it let me know, and I hope that if someone of WG reads this (in the rare case that happens) this could be considered and perhaps even send to the devs.

And with that said, I hope you have a nice day and see you on the battle field,

Thuis001 

 



SovietBias #2 Posted 17 April 2018 - 07:49 PM

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Grinding games of this age usually avoid increasing grinds without adding any content, i.e. new lines. In fact, the most recent trend includes providing XP boosters which effectively shorten grinds. Moreover, depending on the number of tanks you play, the real grind becomes the credit grind. 

 

That said, removing/shorting pointless stock grinds would be a welcome improvement, but despite thinking it is an obsolete game design option, I'm sure their financial dep. must have a different opinion. 



Geno1isme #3 Posted 18 April 2018 - 09:10 AM

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View PostThuis001, on 17 April 2018 - 08:35 PM, said:

Currently: Right now if you were to grind out the modules on the M46 you would come down to a grand total of 146400xp, this is an incredibly large amount, especially given the fact that the M48 Patton "only" costs 205k to get.

What would change: Rather then having to grind the large sum of 156900xp to get a capable tank this would go down to a 'mere' xp, 48.800xp still quite a bit, but a lot more managable. But I hear you ask, what happens to the xp that got 'removed'? Well, that xp is going to be added to the next tank, in this case it's easy, there is only 1 tank that it leads to so it simply gets added there, the xp cost of the M48 Patton would go from 205k to 302.6k. And while that seems like a big increase, remember, there hasn't been added a single point of xp to the grind, it did however become a lot more fun to do so.

If you do that on a large scale you actually increase the amount of XP needed overall significantly as you move XP from shared modules to unshared research options. For example if you elite the VK45B you're currently saving 63k XP when grinding the E75. If you reduce the XP cost of the L/55 gun and increase the XP costs of the E100 and Pz7 you end up needing more XP overall. When done to the whole techtree that will sum up to several hundred thousand, if not millions of XP.

 

And there is another not so obvious negative aspect: The module grind provides people with small achievements along the way. Say currently you need 200 games to unlock a tank, split in 80 games for module grind and 120 games for the tank grind. Now you change that to 30 games module grind and 170 games tank grind. So the part where you're not getting "rewarded" for your grind is increased by 50%.

 

Last but not least: The module grind is an incentive for people to spend Free-XP. Free-XP is an income source for WG.

 

The module grind isn't such a big deal in low- and midtiers anyway, it's mostly the massive cost of guns at T8 and T9 that is frustrating when the stock gun isn't competitve at all (e.g. 240 alpha guns on T9 meds). So instead of shifting the XP costs to the tank unlocks I'd rather see a competitive interim gun added in between and the XP cost shifted there. Could be with the same hard stats as the top-gun but slightly worse softstats (dispersion, reload).


Edited by Geno1isme, 18 April 2018 - 09:14 AM.


ApocalypseSquad #4 Posted 18 April 2018 - 09:39 AM

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View PostGeno1isme, on 18 April 2018 - 09:10 AM, said:

And there is another not so obvious negative aspect: The module grind provides people with small achievements along the way. Say currently you need 200 games to unlock a tank, split in 80 games for module grind and 120 games for the tank grind. Now you change that to 30 games module grind and 170 games tank grind. So the part where you're not getting "rewarded" for your grind is increased by 50%.

 

So much this.  I play for the grind.  I (perhaps perversely) enjoy it.  I lose interest in a tank once I have maxed it's modules and only return to it once I run out of others to buff.

Hedgehog1963 #5 Posted 18 April 2018 - 10:31 AM

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Your proposal would threaten WGs income and you can therefore forget about it.

 

It's evident to anyone who has played that the stock grind exists to make you want to use free XP - some or all of which you will convert uising Gold - to bypass.  This or people playing to get through that stock grind is where WGs profits lie, since people playing the game a lot is also valuable to them.  



Geno1isme #6 Posted 18 April 2018 - 10:33 AM

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View PostThuis001, on 17 April 2018 - 08:35 PM, said:

Anti-Tank guns:

One of the things that buggers the living hell out of me is that for some reason when AT is added to the name of a gun, this apperantly means one has to research it again. For example: the Charioteer has the exact same guns as the Cent. 7/1, but since the Charioteer has AT added to the name of them you have to grind them again. This is weird, since other classes don't have this either and fairly stupid. Another example is the SU-100, this thing can mount the same top guns has the KV-85, and I already researched both on that tank, however, since the SU is a TD I had to research the same guns AGAIN. Just name them the same and make it so that if you research it on a tank you also get the AT variant unlocked and vice versa rather then the current situation which is weird, annoying and stupid.

 

It's not just AT guns, Lights also suffer from this to some degree since 9.18, and of course you're not unlocking modules from other nations or premium tanks. One reason behind that is probably so WG could change the gunstats independently for TDs and regular tanks.







Also tagged with Grind, stock tank, Elite tank

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