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So about FV4202 APCR rounds......


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bloodrain_200 #1 Posted 18 April 2018 - 04:45 PM

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Normal AP rounds - 226 pen

apcr rounds - 258

 

Now i’m still getting used to the tank and it’s shortcomings which is basically everything....infact i’m more useful passive scouting.

 

My issue is when facing t9+ and considering all the other mediums receive Gold rounds with atleast 45+ more pen unlike the FV and it’s almost to the point where the APCR round should just be the standard round imo.

 

Can someone explain why the gold ammo is barely improved? i probably bounce more shots than with AP rounds because i’ve overestimated the reliability of penetration on british guns.

 

So again why does the APCR rounds on the FV, cost about the same as the other t8 meda but yet it’s worse.

 



jdc302 #2 Posted 18 April 2018 - 04:59 PM

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I don't even use premium rounds on the fv4204. The standard pen is sufficient, I should probably load just a couple to reliably pen some heavier tanks. 

You should probably aim a bit better. And don't forget that the apcr loses it's pen faster when firing from long ranges. 



SABAOTH #3 Posted 18 April 2018 - 05:31 PM

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View Postbloodrain_200, on 18 April 2018 - 04:45 PM, said:

Normal AP rounds - 226 pen

apcr rounds - 258

 

Now i’m still getting used to the tank and it’s shortcomings which is basically everything....infact i’m more useful passive scouting.

 

My issue is when facing t9+ and considering all the other mediums receive Gold rounds with atleast 45+ more pen unlike the FV and it’s almost to the point where the APCR round should just be the standard round imo.

 

Can someone explain why the gold ammo is barely improved? i probably bounce more shots than with AP rounds because i’ve overestimated the reliability of penetration on british guns.

 

So again why does the APCR rounds on the FV, cost about the same as the other t8 meda but yet it’s worse.

 

 

Your main issue is the low battle count, you jumped on tier 8 when unexperienced and no amount of gold will fix that, even with 3000 penetration.

 

The fv is a pretty decent medium, and excellent ridge fighter, the penetration and accuracy are awesome and gold is not necessary 95% of the time. :coin:



lgfrbcsgo #4 Posted 18 April 2018 - 05:32 PM

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View Postbloodrain_200, on 18 April 2018 - 04:45 PM, said:

[...]

My issue is when facing t9+ and considering all the other mediums receive Gold rounds with atleast 45+ more pen unlike the FV and it’s almost to the point where the APCR round should just be the standard round imo.

[...]

 

It's not about relative penetration increase at all, it's all about the absolute value and 258mm is a lot for a T8 medium.

 

226mm with standard rounds is best in class for T8, apart from TDs.



RaxipIx #5 Posted 18 April 2018 - 05:46 PM

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View Postlgfrbcsgo, on 18 April 2018 - 05:32 PM, said:

 

It's not about relative penetration increase at all, it's all about the absolute value and 258mm is a lot for a T8 medium.

 

226mm with standard rounds is best in class for T8, apart from TDs.

 

The Lorrain is best in class from what i  know, but it's still a very high standard pen

anonym_uktlgGKuDbuG #6 Posted 18 April 2018 - 05:57 PM

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Keep in mind that loading APCR actually increases the enemy's efffective armor if it's sloped due to less normalization. So in practice, the difference in pen will be even smaller. The same goes for HEAT, loading HEAT greatly increases the enemy's effective armor because HEAT has no normalization at all.

 

AP is not as bad as many people think.



AliceUnchained #7 Posted 18 April 2018 - 06:05 PM

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View PostTr0gledyte, on 18 April 2018 - 05:57 PM, said:

Keep in mind that loading APCR actually increases the enemy's efffective armor if it's sloped due to less normalization. So in practice, the difference in pen will be even smaller. The same goes for HEAT, loading HEAT greatly increases the enemy's effective armor because HEAT has no normalization at all.

 

AP is not as bad as many people think.

 

Theoretically true, that bold part, but practically never the case in WoT. Only on highly oblique impact angles will that difference matter, and then only when premium ammo penetration increase is less than the increase in effective armor. The FV possibly fits this category, so let's run some numbers.

 

A 100 mm nominal thickness plate struck at 70º impact angle will have an effective thickness of 100/cos(65) = ~236,62 mm vs AP rounds, and 100/(68) = ~266,95 mm vs (premium) APCR rounds. Even at maximum impact angle, the difference is still less than the difference in penetration. Albeit only slightly. 

 

N.B. At 70º impact angle we would get ricochet already, but for convenience I stuck with that.



bloodrain_200 #8 Posted 18 April 2018 - 07:46 PM

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Lol at the replies. I’m pretty sure we’re all in agreement the standard AP rounds bo better than the so called APCR rounds that bounce or get eaten by modules.

Again i’m confused to why there’s even a gold round when it’s useless.

bloodrain_200 #9 Posted 18 April 2018 - 07:55 PM

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I was never complaining about the standard penetration however i do find it backwards that the standard round has more general use than the gold round??

The question is wether 4.4k creds per shell is worth the measly 30ish pen and odds are if your ap rounds don’t work, the apcr rounds aren’t going to work on angled armour or thick side mantlets.

I’m accustomed to aiming for hulls and the sides are enemy tanks since i don’t find the gun reliable at all unless i’m spamming auto aim then shots tend to hit center mass instead of falling short.

AliceUnchained #10 Posted 18 April 2018 - 08:03 PM

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View Postbloodrain_200, on 18 April 2018 - 07:46 PM, said:

Lol at the replies. 

 

Then next time don't bother creating such a pointless cry thread.



Strappster #11 Posted 18 April 2018 - 08:12 PM

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View Postbloodrain_200, on 18 April 2018 - 06:55 PM, said:

I was never complaining about the standard penetration however i do find it backwards that the standard round has more general use than the gold round??

The question is wether 4.4k creds per shell is worth the measly 30ish pen and odds are if your ap rounds don’t work, the apcr rounds aren’t going to work on angled armour or thick side mantlets.

 

Could be worse, you might have bought a Panther mit 8,8cm.



Enforcer1975 #12 Posted 18 April 2018 - 08:18 PM

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View Postbloodrain_200, on 18 April 2018 - 04:45 PM, said:

Normal AP rounds - 226 pen

apcr rounds - 258

 

Now i’m still getting used to the tank and it’s shortcomings which is basically everything....infact i’m more useful passive scouting.

 

My issue is when facing t9+ and considering all the other mediums receive Gold rounds with atleast 45+ more pen unlike the FV and it’s almost to the point where the APCR round should just be the standard round imo.

 

Can someone explain why the gold ammo is barely improved? i probably bounce more shots than with AP rounds because i’ve overestimated the reliability of penetration on british guns.

 

So again why does the APCR rounds on the FV, cost about the same as the other t8 meda but yet it’s worse.

 

 

That's where your problem lies. You rely on the 2 button because you think it's the solution for everything...plus getting a tier 8 premium with your battlecount. The worst mix in most cases. 

I'm not making fun of the player in this replay, he realized himself that using apcr was a bad choice after i tried my luck and contacted him after the game to offer some help what he could have done instead when i sidescraped against him. 

 



Search_Warrant #13 Posted 18 April 2018 - 08:22 PM

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View Postjdc302, on 18 April 2018 - 03:59 PM, said:

I don't even use premium rounds on the fv4204. The standard pen is sufficient, I should probably load just a couple to reliably pen some heavier tanks. 

You should probably aim a bit better. And don't forget that the apcr loses it's pen faster when firing from long ranges. 

 

Aiming better is the reason its trash. the DPM is trash, the alpha is a weak 230 and the aimtime is disgustingly bad. the turrets butter or stronger than a maus while angled. its a RNGdice roll armor turret which sucks.

 

Tank sucks, long story short.



bloodrain_200 #14 Posted 18 April 2018 - 08:51 PM

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@Enforcer1975

Actually i manual aim 90% of the time especially if i’m stationary trying to snipe or hull down problem is that i’ll still get penned by t34s or any tank with -8/10 gun depression cause occasionally they’ll hit me once and kill my crew or ammo rack.

i’ve gone from 6.33 reload to 12/24 secs if they hit the rack and loader....ofcourse this has happened less than 5 times out of just less than 100 matches....but it’s frustrating as [edited]when every other shot damages a module or something.

Edited by bloodrain_200, 18 April 2018 - 08:59 PM.


BP_OMowe #15 Posted 18 April 2018 - 09:19 PM

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View Postjdc302, on 18 April 2018 - 04:59 PM, said:

And don't forget that the apcr loses it's pen faster when firing from long ranges.

View PostAliceUnchained, on 18 April 2018 - 06:05 PM, said:

Theoretically true, that bold part, but practically never the case in WoT. Only on highly oblique impact angles will that difference matter, and then only when premium ammo penetration increase is less than the increase in effective armor. The FV possibly fits this category, so let's run some numbers.

 

A 100 mm nominal thickness plate struck at 70º impact angle will have an effective thickness of 100/cos(65) = ~236,62 mm vs AP rounds, and 100/(68) = ~266,95 mm vs (premium) APCR rounds. Even at maximum impact angle, the difference is still less than the difference in penetration. Albeit only slightly.

 

While APCR loses more penetration as a percentage than AP over distance, the APCR (with a handful exceptions) still remains higher than the regular AP at 400m.

The smaller gap combined with the "normalisation" (AliceinChains can fully explain why I use quotation-marks for the term) might partly explain the lack of difference in performance when it comes to long range fire.



bloodrain_200 #16 Posted 18 April 2018 - 09:31 PM

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View PostBP_OMowe, on 18 April 2018 - 08:19 PM, said:

 

While APCR loses more penetration as a percentage than AP over distance, the APCR (with a handful exceptions) still remains higher than the regular AP at 400m.

The smaller gap combined with the "normalisation" (AliceinChains can fully explain why I use quotation-marks for the term) might partly explain the lack of difference in performance when it comes to long range fire.

Still the effective loss makes it the equivalent of firing a normal AP round at 200m....that’s why i’m saying it’s useless especially in a sniper tank that has to aim for weakspots anyway....



SABAOTH #17 Posted 18 April 2018 - 09:55 PM

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View Postbloodrain_200, on 18 April 2018 - 09:31 PM, said:

Still the effective loss makes it the equivalent of firing a normal AP round at 200m....that’s why i’m saying it’s useless especially in a sniper tank that has to aim for weakspots anyway....

Not useless, this game has a +-25% rng

 

Normal AP rounds - 226 pen -- max 282.5

apcr rounds - 258 -- max 322.5 (plus is faster to hit distant targets reliably)

 

Again you still don't know all the tricks because you rushed tiers and obviously you could not catch them all. Surely it appears you catched the notion "press 2 to win", which is wrong, and the amunt of tomatoes spamming pure gold and still failing just proves it. They probably follow your same flawed thinking :girl:

 

 

View Postbloodrain_200, on 18 April 2018 - 07:46 PM, said:

Lol at the replies. I’m pretty sure we’re all in agreement the standard AP rounds bo better than the so called APCR rounds that bounce or get eaten by modules.

Again i’m confused to why there’s even a gold round when it’s useless.

 

This attitude is going to get you profiled as a Tomato rather than a newbie (ftr: newbie will learn, tomatoes will keep being arrogant and sucking at tonks).

 

Is not useless if you use it when it makes sense, if you spam it left and right then is just wasting your money as the regular ammo is so good.

 

You are behaving like the guy bitchin that 271 rmor is crap and does not work :coin:



bloodrain_200 #18 Posted 18 April 2018 - 10:30 PM

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View PostSABAOTH, on 18 April 2018 - 08:55 PM, said:

Not useless, this game has a +-25% rng

 

Normal AP rounds - 226 pen -- max 282.5

apcr rounds - 258 -- max 322.5 (plus is faster to hit distant targets reliably)

 

Again you still don't know all the tricks because you rushed tiers and obviously you could not catch them all. Surely it appears you catched the notion "press 2 to win", which is wrong, and the amunt of tomatoes spamming pure gold and still failing just proves it. They probably follow your same flawed thinking :girl:

 

 

 

This attitude is going to get you profiled as a Tomato rather than a newbie (ftr: newbie will learn, tomatoes will keep being arrogant and sucking at tonks).

 

Is not useless if you use it when it makes sense, if you spam it left and right then is just wasting your money as the regular ammo is so good.

 

You are behaving like the guy bitchin that 271 rmor is crap and does not work :coin:

 

Amazing. Define the word ‘reliable” for me and then explain RnG(wether or not RnG is reliable also depending on penetration)like i said  you’re probably still going to be aiming for weakspots anyway so even at max roll it’s still redundant.

 

The only difference between t8 and t6/7 is that the british mediums lose their speed and maneuveurablity, i’m impressed you sre tryung to find me at fault when most maps Especially city maps don’t offer any strategic positioning at all. I’ve more success playing it as a Open Top TD than ridgle liner than can bounce and evade shots.

 

Not to mention the horrible hill climbing and horrific traversing. Sure it’s nippy in linear movements but it’s by no mesns agile especially with the larger chassis. 



BP_OMowe #19 Posted 18 April 2018 - 11:04 PM

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View Postbloodrain_200, on 18 April 2018 - 09:31 PM, said:

Still the effective loss makes it the equivalent of firing a normal AP round at 200m....that’s why i’m saying it’s useless especially in a sniper tank that has to aim for weakspots anyway....

 

Not quite, the APCR still has greater penetration than the AP at 300 metres, and it usually does get there a lot faster too.

bloodrain_200 #20 Posted 19 April 2018 - 01:19 PM

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View PostBP_OMowe, on 18 April 2018 - 10:04 PM, said:

 

Not quite, the APCR still has greater penetration than the AP at 300 metres, and it usually does get there a lot faster too.

Sure, either way the 30mm pen is useless if you’re aiming at weakspots with the ap 226.......either way i’m done with it for

now. 

 

 


Edited by bloodrain_200, 19 April 2018 - 01:30 PM.





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