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Tank roles.


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DracheimFlug #1 Posted 20 April 2018 - 09:15 AM

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Normally I'd say play as best suits what you are driving, what works for you rather than strict tank roles. However lately I see time after time lights and/or mediums charging into brawling corridors even on maps with good cover and scouting opportunities, or conversely, heavies going into the open and getting promptly tracked and killed. 

 

I realize there is this mission running and arty is always a consideration but nevertheless, getting rather annoying.

 

Not necessarily affecting my stats badly... tanks on the enemy team are just as prone to such idiocy and frankly, my stats, bad as they are, are still slowly improving. But, nevertheless.... 



Browarszky #2 Posted 20 April 2018 - 01:05 PM

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I wish I could have a little more variety of game play, but as it is, every class has the same role - target for practice.

DracheimFlug #3 Posted 20 April 2018 - 02:44 PM

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View PostBrowarszky, on 20 April 2018 - 01:05 PM, said:

I wish I could have a little more variety of game play, but as it is, every class has the same role - target for practice.

 

What, even allied tanks? :ohmy:

pecopad #4 Posted 20 April 2018 - 03:29 PM

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WOT game design, unfortunately does not incorporate mechanics that could help addressing this problem

 

There are different tank roles in WOT, but apart from the  characteristics of the tank and the campaign missions, there is no incentive to play the proper role of the tank. Also the problem of the +2MM that makes your tank change role according to the tier you face, which is not a good thing.

 

WOT could address this problem and try to make it less prevalent by for instance having different methods for calculating the xp... Heavy tanks earning much less Xp from long range,same has brawling TD's. SPG earning less XP for shooting lights, Flanking Meds getting more xp  for flanking, etc

 

WOT could also address this problem with linked map objectives, like rewarding tanks for taking and holding a position in the map,  Flanking moves objectives, etc

 

WOT could display on the minimap the typical spots for tanks, maybe until tier 5. The where to go question.

 

Automatic platoons could be assigned and created according to the roles of the tanks, introducing the battle squad's concept.

 

Finally the Map spawns should be more tactically determined. Heavies should spawn further from the med and lights flank, support tanks should spawn  close to the tanks they should support. I believe this is already implemented, but it should be clear that you should go to the flank you spawn and not to the opposite flank.



Browarszky #5 Posted 20 April 2018 - 03:57 PM

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View PostDracheimFlug, on 20 April 2018 - 01:44 PM, said:

 

What, even allied tanks? :ohmy:

 

What allied tanks?... oh, you mean those 14 that stay on when I go back to garage.... :hiding:

 

View Postpecopad, on 20 April 2018 - 02:29 PM, said:

WOT game design, unfortunately does not incorporate mechanics that could help addressing this problem

 

There are different tank roles in WOT, but apart from the  characteristics of the tank and the campaign missions, there is no incentive to play the proper role of the tank. Also the problem of the +2MM that makes your tank change role according to the tier you face, which is not a good thing.

 

WOT could address this problem and try to make it less prevalent by for instance having different methods for calculating the xp... Heavy tanks earning much less Xp from long range,same has brawling TD's. SPG earning less XP for shooting lights, Flanking Meds getting more xp  for flanking, etc

 

WOT could also address this problem with linked map objectives, like rewarding tanks for taking and holding a position in the map,  Flanking moves objectives, etc

 

WOT could display on the minimap the typical spots for tanks, maybe until tier 5. The where to go question.

 

Automatic platoons could be assigned and created according to the roles of the tanks, introducing the battle squad's concept.

 

Finally the Map spawns should be more tactically determined. Heavies should spawn further from the med and lights flank, support tanks should spawn  close to the tanks they should support. I believe this is already implemented, but it should be clear that you should go to the flank you spawn and not to the opposite flank.

 

^ This.

Geno1isme #6 Posted 20 April 2018 - 03:59 PM

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View Postpecopad, on 20 April 2018 - 04:29 PM, said:

There are different tank roles in WOT, but apart from the  characteristics of the tank and the campaign missions, there is no incentive to play the proper role of the tank. Also the problem of the +2MM that makes your tank change role according to the tier you face, which is not a good thing.

 

Ehm, no, that's a good thing actually. In most cases there is no single "proper" role for a tank, and it's not just changing based on tier but the actual enemy (and friendly) lineup that should affect how you play your tank. E.g. a T95 shouldn't be afraid of facing higher tier guns or armor. It has however to be very careful when multiple HE guns (arty, godzilla) are in the game, or mobile tanks with decent guns.

 

View Postpecopad, on 20 April 2018 - 04:29 PM, said:

WOT could display on the minimap the typical spots for tanks, maybe until tier 5. The where to go question.

 

That would make things even worse with people insisting that one must go to the heavy/medium flank when it may be the completely wrong thing to do. It's not that people don't know where the choke points are, they just don't want to go there. Because when they go there they get killed. Simple as that.

 

First and foremost the game has to tell people after battle if they played well or not. On the first page. In huge capital letters. Forced into their view for at least 5 seconds.

Question is how to measure it, pure numbers don't work for that.


Edited by Geno1isme, 20 April 2018 - 04:00 PM.


Negativvv #7 Posted 20 April 2018 - 04:39 PM

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Lel the MM changing a tank's role.

 

Nothing says this better than T8 HTs in the current MM. When you have to play Tiger 2 as a Meduim or even a TD in 75% of all MM :teethhappy:


Edited by Negativvv, 20 April 2018 - 07:06 PM.


pecopad #8 Posted 20 April 2018 - 05:41 PM

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View PostGeno1isme, on 20 April 2018 - 03:59 PM, said:

 

Ehm, no, that's a good thing actually. In most cases there is no single "proper" role for a tank, and it's not just changing based on tier but the actual enemy (and friendly) lineup that should affect how you play your tank. E.g. a T95 shouldn't be afraid of facing higher tier guns or armor. It has however to be very careful when multiple HE guns (arty, godzilla) are in the game, or mobile tanks with decent guns.

 

 

That would make things even worse with people insisting that one must go to the heavy/medium flank when it may be the completely wrong thing to do. It's not that people don't know where the choke points are, they just don't want to go there. Because when they go there they get killed. Simple as that.

 

First and foremost the game has to tell people after battle if they played well or not. On the first page. In huge capital letters. Forced into their view for at least 5 seconds.

Question is how to measure it, pure numbers don't work for that.

 

I think if you develop a tank,and if chose to play it for a game, WG should respect your desire. I should be able to play a tanker, a support, a sniper a medic or a scout on their original roles. Nothing more annoying than being a slow heavy bottom tier tank, when you are supposed to be brawling on the front line, for example.

 

In order for team play to exist, players have to know the fundamentals of the game, so indeed I think it would be a good thing for player until the tier V to get an idea where to go with their tanks, This would also end part of the stat padders incentive, since farming tomatoes would be harder.

 

Regarding the info is a person has played good at the end of the game, the problem is that you can go to the garage and don't have to wait for the final screen of the game,if not you could have a voting screen like in other games, where you vote for the best player.

 

Again, in my opinion the main problem aren't the tomatoes. The problem is more with the greens and blues that must farm damage and WN8...

 


Edited by pecopad, 20 April 2018 - 05:42 PM.


Browarszky #9 Posted 20 April 2018 - 05:47 PM

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View PostNegativvv, on 20 April 2018 - 03:39 PM, said:

Lel the MM changing a tank's roll.

 

Nothing says this better than T8 HTs in the current MM. When you have to play Tiger 2 as a Meduim or even a TD in 75% of all MM :teethhappy:

 

Uhm.. dynamic and versatile game play?

NoobySkooby #10 Posted 20 April 2018 - 06:02 PM

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View Postpecopad, on 20 April 2018 - 03:29 PM, said:

WOT game design, unfortunately does not incorporate mechanics that could help addressing this problem

 

There are different tank roles in WOT, but apart from the  characteristics of the tank and the campaign missions, there is no incentive to play the proper role of the tank. Also the problem of the +2MM that makes your tank change role according to the tier you face, which is not a good thing.

 

WOT could address this problem and try to make it less prevalent by for instance having different methods for calculating the xp... Heavy tanks earning much less Xp from long range,same has brawling TD's. SPG earning less XP for shooting lights, Flanking Meds getting more xp  for flanking, etc

 

WOT could also address this problem with linked map objectives, like rewarding tanks for taking and holding a position in the map,  Flanking moves objectives, etc

 

WOT could display on the minimap the typical spots for tanks, maybe until tier 5. The where to go question.

 

Automatic platoons could be assigned and created according to the roles of the tanks, introducing the battle squad's concept.

 

Finally the Map spawns should be more tactically determined. Heavies should spawn further from the med and lights flank, support tanks should spawn  close to the tanks they should support. I believe this is already implemented, but it should be clear that you should go to the flank you spawn and not to the opposite flank.

 

Those are some very good idea's, especially the 'tooning' ones, in fact they could toon all the noobs with me, I would feel more at home:trollface:

UrQuan #11 Posted 20 April 2018 - 06:55 PM

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View PostBrowarszky, on 20 April 2018 - 01:05 PM, said:

I wish I could have a little more variety of game play, but as it is, every class has the same role - target for practice.

 

Can confirm my role is target practice

 



DracheimFlug #12 Posted 21 April 2018 - 08:45 AM

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View Postpecopad, on 20 April 2018 - 03:29 PM, said:

WOT game design, unfortunately does not incorporate mechanics that could help addressing this problem

 

There are different tank roles in WOT, but apart from the  characteristics of the tank and the campaign missions, there is no incentive to play the proper role of the tank. Also the problem of the +2MM that makes your tank change role according to the tier you face, which is not a good thing.

 

WOT could address this problem and try to make it less prevalent by for instance having different methods for calculating the xp... Heavy tanks earning much less Xp from long range,same has brawling TD's. SPG earning less XP for shooting lights, Flanking Meds getting more xp  for flanking, etc

 

WOT could also address this problem with linked map objectives, like rewarding tanks for taking and holding a position in the map,  Flanking moves objectives, etc

 

WOT could display on the minimap the typical spots for tanks, maybe until tier 5. The where to go question.

 

Automatic platoons could be assigned and created according to the roles of the tanks, introducing the battle squad's concept.

 

Finally the Map spawns should be more tactically determined. Heavies should spawn further from the med and lights flank, support tanks should spawn  close to the tanks they should support. I believe this is already implemented, but it should be clear that you should go to the flank you spawn and not to the opposite flank.

 

The incentive is obvious, or should be. You will win more when the roles best suited to your tanks are properly filled. That means on a open map, one or more people need to properly scout. On a closed map, the best brawlers need to be up front where they can do the most good. And others trying to fill these roles, except where absolutely necessary (due to lack of better tanks in the match for the purpose), are more likely to just be getting in the way and getting themselves and/or team mates killed. 

 

I agree completely with you on the last point. Lights should usually spawn in front, at the very least, and arty in the back. 

 

And there could be a tutorial on tank roles, too, including spotting and camo.

 

I think the where to go showing on the minimap would go a little too far maybe though, but not sure.



DracheimFlug #13 Posted 21 April 2018 - 08:51 AM

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View PostNegativvv, on 20 April 2018 - 04:39 PM, said:

Lel the MM changing a tank's role.

 

Nothing says this better than T8 HTs in the current MM. When you have to play Tiger 2 as a Meduim or even a TD in 75% of all MM :teethhappy:

 

7 enemy tanks in that battle will also be tier 8's and there are tier 8 heavies such as the Löwe and 100 P that can still handle traditional heavy roles even against higher tier tanks, even if not as well as their higher tier equivalents. Also, if you have a big slow tank, you are still almost always better in a corridor than in the open, even when bottom tiered. 

 

And a bottom tier light is even better off scouting than trying to brawl.

 

If you are talking about sniping, then yes, but every tank can at times best be deployed as a sniper. The problem there is that there are other roles needed to support the snipers, and when everyone tries to hide and snipe, they will almost always simply lose. 



ThinGun #14 Posted 21 April 2018 - 10:02 AM

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I think there's a very great demand for some sausage roles in this game.  And not those poncey cocktail ones, I mean the substantial Greggs ones, dripping with lard.




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