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Why the italian tanks (dont) suck.


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brumbarr #1 Posted 20 April 2018 - 09:05 PM

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At first, I was going to write a post on why the italian tanks sucked. They looked really bad on paper.

Then I ran some numbers, to support my theory, but after doing that, it proved me wrong.

 

Posted Image

 

This table shows how fast a tank can do a certain amount of dmg. As you can see, going full auto or pure single shot in the italian tanks is less effective than comparable single shots or autoloaders. But when using it optimally, the italian tanks can put out dmg faster than any other tank at its tier.   But ofcourse you have a huge reload after that. So the gun has it advantage and disadvantage. 

 

I do think othe aspects should be buffed however, mainly the gun handling and VR and speed.

 

 

 

 



The_Georgian_One #2 Posted 20 April 2018 - 09:11 PM

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Good post!

The tanks have all the flexibility in the world (of tanks). And this is their main strenght. I still think they are slightly underpowered. Not because there is something wrong with them, but because of armor meta that we have right now.


Edited by The_Georgian_One, 20 April 2018 - 09:12 PM.


HonoredStone #3 Posted 20 April 2018 - 09:30 PM

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yeah and after you have used the tier 10 at his full capacity you have to reload for 52 seconds to have a full clip again. no thanks. thats just crap.

The_Georgian_One #4 Posted 20 April 2018 - 09:36 PM

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View PostHonoredStone, on 20 April 2018 - 09:30 PM, said:

yeah and after you have used the tier 10 at his full capacity you have to reload for 52 seconds to have a full clip again. no thanks. thats just crap.

 

That's not the full capacity tho. You have to first damage them with using single shot and then finish as autoloader.

HonoredStone #5 Posted 20 April 2018 - 09:40 PM

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View PostThe_Georgian_One, on 20 April 2018 - 08:36 PM, said:

 

That's not the full capacity tho. You have to first damage them with using single shot and then finish as autoloader.

 

and once you have used more than 2 shells you just murder your reload.

Spurtung #6 Posted 20 April 2018 - 10:11 PM

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View PostHonoredStone, on 20 April 2018 - 10:40 PM, said:

 

and once you have used more than 2 shells you just murder your reload.

 

So? If you murder an enemy tank, I don't see where's the problem in that.

250swb #7 Posted 21 April 2018 - 08:26 AM

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View PostSpurtung, on 20 April 2018 - 09:11 PM, said:

 

So? If you murder an enemy tank, I don't see where's the problem in that.

 

This is what I don't understand when people talk about pure dpm, with the Italian tanks there should be a new measure of deaths per minute rather than damage per minute, who cares about a 50 second reload if you can kill an enemy every 60 seconds. Of course that's an exaggeration, but all the same I'm sure some players will become specialists who refine their technique for Italian tanks to favour either damage or death.

arthurwellsley #8 Posted 21 April 2018 - 08:37 AM

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Brumbarr, please define what you mean in this context by the term "optimal".

I presume that you mean take two shots and then reload. Is that correct?


Edited by arthurwellsley, 21 April 2018 - 08:39 AM.


Valkyrie514 #9 Posted 21 April 2018 - 08:56 AM

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View Postarthurwellsley, on 21 April 2018 - 08:37 AM, said:

Brumbarr, please define what you mean in this context by the term "optimal".

I presume that you mean take two shots and then reload. Is that correct?

 

Probably something along the lines of single shoting until clipping to finish the job is the best way. 

Edited by Valkyrie514, 21 April 2018 - 08:56 AM.


brumbarr #10 Posted 21 April 2018 - 09:02 AM

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View Postarthurwellsley, on 21 April 2018 - 08:37 AM, said:

Brumbarr, please define what you mean in this context by the term "optimal".

I presume that you mean take two shots and then reload. Is that correct?

The fastest way to do that amount of dmg.

( which is mostly single shot mode and then unloading the clip)



DracheimFlug #11 Posted 21 April 2018 - 09:12 AM

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View Post250swb, on 21 April 2018 - 08:26 AM, said:

 

This is what I don't understand when people talk about pure dpm, with the Italian tanks there should be a new measure of deaths per minute rather than damage per minute, who cares about a 50 second reload if you can kill an enemy every 60 seconds. Of course that's an exaggeration, but all the same I'm sure some players will become specialists who refine their technique for Italian tanks to favour either damage or death.

 

This. Theoretical dpm vs effective dpm. Also the point of the analysis was that there are other already existing autoloaders with similarly long reloads and without that flexibility. 

VarzA #12 Posted 21 April 2018 - 09:32 AM

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What is M35 and what is M40 ?

brumbarr #13 Posted 21 April 2018 - 09:53 AM

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View PostVarzA, on 21 April 2018 - 09:32 AM, said:

What is M35 and what is M40 ?

Progetto m35 and progetto m40, tier 8 and 10 italion tanks.



xx984 #14 Posted 21 April 2018 - 11:45 AM

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I agree, and at the end of the day DPM is not everything. These tanks will be very flexible which is great, and will add more variety and be interesting to learn how to play effectively as well. 

_Flagada_Jones_ #15 Posted 21 April 2018 - 01:13 PM

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It is harder to get on the theorical DPM of a tank when he got low damage gun. Because you can't go out, each time you are reloaded.

It is easier for a t30 to shot each shot as soon as it is loaded than to do it with a spagheto!

Balc0ra #16 Posted 21 April 2018 - 01:33 PM

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They can still use gun rammers etc unlike the Lorr or BC. So they are not the best in terms of potential dpm. But still far from the worst. And if used right, they have the potential to do better in most 1 on 1's. Even with the lower dpm.

 

Issue is tho that every single Progetto I've seen so far uses the burst damage and plays it like a clip gun regardless almost. Vs going with the 1st round only, and then use the burst damage when they got the HP down low enough. I've seen so many lose vs even a Lorr that has way less DPM.



Strappster #17 Posted 21 April 2018 - 01:39 PM

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How strange and peculiar. Tanks that a lot of folk have decided are rubbish without ever playing them turn out not to be if you apply some objective thinking and determine the best way of utilising their strengths while overcoming their weaknesses. It's almost as though WG employs people who have some understanding of what they're doing and game balance is a tricky job which can't be summarised in simple terms.

 

And that can't be right.



soul3ater #18 Posted 21 April 2018 - 01:42 PM

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Playing these tanks is so stressful.

 

not sure if I am going to get them tbh. 



Ricky_Rolls #19 Posted 21 April 2018 - 01:53 PM

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Another paper tank with no hp in this meta 

Edited by Ricky_Rolls, 21 April 2018 - 01:54 PM.


brumbarr #20 Posted 21 April 2018 - 02:08 PM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 21 April 2018 - 01:33 PM, said:

They can still use gun rammers etc unlike the Lorr or BC. So they are not the best in terms of potential dpm. But still far from the worst. And if used right, they have the potential to do better in most 1 on 1's. Even with the lower dpm.

 

Issue is tho that every single Progetto I've seen so far uses the burst damage and plays it like a clip gun regardless almost. Vs going with the 1st round only, and then use the burst damage when they got the HP down low enough. I've seen so many lose vs even a Lorr that has way less DPM.

 

yeah, I used a gunrammer on every tank that could mount them when I made the table. 




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