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Type 4 Heavy


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TheJumpMaster #1 Posted 21 April 2018 - 10:32 AM

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Hello Forumites,

 

In my attempt to complete missions for the Object 260, I have been using the Type 4 Heavy. On paper, this tank is a damage monster. However, in actuality I am causing 450 to 650 damage per shot (except for a Leopard PTA - 1400 AND set him on fire) Am I wrong about this tank or am I playing it incorrectly? Could it be that this tank is not what it appears to be?

 

Here is an example of game play and the damage I'm doing. Any constructive advice is welcome.

 

Replay



sgtYester #2 Posted 21 April 2018 - 10:36 AM

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nope, ur shooting HE, so when wfiring against heavy tanks u shoot frontally where they have most armor u will do that amount of damage.,

 

when u can shoot im in the [edited]or meet low armor tanks....  thats when it gets nice.  I shot a 263 in the [edited]for 1400 for instance



TheJumpMaster #3 Posted 21 April 2018 - 10:47 AM

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View PostsgtYester, on 21 April 2018 - 11:36 AM, said:

nope, ur shooting HE, so when wfiring against heavy tanks u shoot frontally where they have most armor u will do that amount of damage.,

 

when u can shoot im in the [edited]or meet low armor tanks....  thats when it gets nice.  I shot a 263 in the [edited]for 1400 for instance

 

I hit a Jagdpanzer E 100 in the upper side and cause 400+ damage :(

RamRaid90 #4 Posted 21 April 2018 - 10:59 AM

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When aiming with high damage HE shells like on the Type 4/5 you need to aim for the turret base of heavily armoured tanks.

 

Damage from HE shells as far as i'm aware is calculated based upon the weakest armour located within the spherical blast radius. When aiming at the base of the Maus turret for example, the weakest armour would belocated on the engine deck. You will cause more damage this way.

 

Aim the furthest away from any spaced armour you can. Even if you don't hit the tracks directly they will still absorb lots of the damage.


Edited by RamRaid90, 21 April 2018 - 11:00 AM.


somegras #5 Posted 21 April 2018 - 11:13 AM

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If you want to maximise your damage using that gun you have to aim as close to the engine deck as possible (lower half of the turret on E100s etc) or shoot below the tank, preferably on the inside of tracklinks so you track them in the same shot. However, 400-500 rolls is what you will get most of the time anyway. The DPM on botht this and the Type 5 isn't what makes those tanks powerful, it's the fact that you will always do damage and have the staying power to keep doing that damage. Also, don't waste your time with pixel shots like you did in this game on the Type 4. You are just wasting precious reload time.

Dava_117 #6 Posted 21 April 2018 - 11:22 AM

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View PostRamRaid90, on 21 April 2018 - 10:59 AM, said:

When aiming with high damage HE shells like on the Type 4/5 you need to aim for the turret base of heavily armoured tanks.

 

Damage from HE shells as far as i'm aware is calculated based upon the weakest armour located within the spherical blast radius. When aiming at the base of the Maus turret for example, the weakest armour would belocated on the engine deck. You will cause more damage this way.

 

Aim the furthest away from any spaced armour you can. Even if you don't hit the tracks directly they will still absorb lots of the damage.

 

It's not the place whit lowest armour, but the point in wich damage is higher. 

Practically it's usually the same, but there may be situation in wich this may be inportant. :)

 

On topic, have you tryied the 14cm gun. I see lot's of Type4 using it and the penetration is not that bad for a tier 9.



FluffyRedFox #7 Posted 21 April 2018 - 12:05 PM

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If you're at close range, try to aim for the thinnest section of armour you can, such as turret or hull roofs. If not, shoot below the sprocket on the ground to splash up into the hull floor.

leggasiini #8 Posted 21 April 2018 - 12:08 PM

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HE in general is a really random game mechanic. Not only 25% damage RNG affects it, but it also depends on how close you hit certain armor plates and so on. Gun hits often reduces HE damage, or at some cases even completely nullify it, and the derpy accuracy (and in the Type 4's case, the terrible gun handling as well) makes it even worse. You may deal 0 damage, or then you deal +700, even though you aimed at exactly the same place.

 

It's not the raw DPM that makes the Type 4/5 very good at dealing damage, it's the consistent DPM due to ability to deal a lot of damage whenever enemy tank is exposed, no matter what. Especially now with all of the armor buffs, you are able to do damage with the Type 4/5 in situations where no other tank wouldn't be able to do it. In corner fights, the Types have a massive advantage against anything that has sub-500 alpha damage, because they always do damage and they will almost always outtrade that tank, while the opponent HAS to aim and penetrate the Types.

 

The Type 4 in especial has a very long reload and terrible gun handling, so generally at longer range engagements its safer to simply aim at the center mass of the tank. You might not do as much damage, but rather do ~300-400 than have a chance of doing bit more but also a greater chance of missing. The Type 5 has a lot better gun handling and reload (both better by like 30%), so it can aim a bit better at longer ranges, but even then you generally want to aim at the center mass on long ranges, because the fully aimed accuracy is still...poor. At closer range engagements, aim for either turret/superstructure face; as close as possible to the engine deck, or aim underneath the tank. Despite what some people say, I would personally avoid shooting the ground under the tank, because there is a good chance of shell go under the tank and completely missing it. Generally it is better to go for inside part of the track underneath the hull, instead of splashing directly into the ground, because not only it does as much damage but it also is much safer and it also tracks the target in progress. At very close ranges (when facehugging), go for the turret roof, cupola, or if possible, the engine deck. 

 

There are some specific targets which you can penetrate with HE. For example, the cupola of the AMX M4 49 (and stock AMX 65t) is pennable with HE, but go for that only when you're like sub-100m away from him.


Edited by leggasiini, 21 April 2018 - 12:14 PM.


killer999death #9 Posted 21 April 2018 - 12:10 PM

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Pro tip when facing very heavily armored tanks.



Shoot the ground under the tank.

 



clixor #10 Posted 21 April 2018 - 12:43 PM

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View PostTheJumpMaster, on 21 April 2018 - 10:47 AM, said:

 

I hit a Jagdpanzer E 100 in the upper side and cause 400+ damage :(

 

you mean the superstructure? If so, then unless firing high pen gold it's pretty hard to pen. So looking at it from the bright side now you did 400 dmg while in other cases 0. 

 

So despite not having high or reliable dpm, what you CAN do to put pressure on tanks in strong locations, forcing them to make a play in less than ideal circumstances for them. 



TheJumpMaster #11 Posted 21 April 2018 - 03:49 PM

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Thank you for the advice, it is appreciated :great::great::honoring:

250swb #12 Posted 21 April 2018 - 07:01 PM

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Inspiring advice, thank you.

Joggaman #13 Posted 21 April 2018 - 07:05 PM

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I learned something today. Wow. 

CircleOfSorrow #14 Posted 21 April 2018 - 11:03 PM

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Were you doing 450-650 dmg with the base or prem HE?

FatigueGalaxy #15 Posted 21 April 2018 - 11:08 PM

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View PostRamRaid90, on 21 April 2018 - 10:59 AM, said:

When aiming with high damage HE shells like on the Type 4/5 you need to aim for the turret base of heavily armoured tanks.

 

Damage from HE shells as far as i'm aware is calculated based upon the weakest armour located within the spherical blast radius. When aiming at the base of the Maus turret for example, the weakest armour would belocated on the engine deck. You will cause more damage this way.

 

Aim the furthest away from any spaced armour you can. Even if you don't hit the tracks directly they will still absorb lots of the damage.

They changed it to set of rays long time ago. Previously, with spherical calculation, you could hit frontal plate but damage would be applied to tank roof or floor (or other weakspot) if it was inside blast sphere. Back then HE almost always did 50% damage on failed penetration because armour was bypassed most of the time (hit gun mantlet - damage was applied to commander's hatch). Now, instead sphere, HE shell impact creates set of rays and damage is applied to the weakest armour "touched" by those rays, which means damage is applied only to armour located in line of sight of explosion.



RamRaid90 #16 Posted 22 April 2018 - 08:33 AM

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View PostFatigueGalaxy, on 21 April 2018 - 10:08 PM, said:

They changed it to set of rays long time ago. Previously, with spherical calculation, you could hit frontal plate but damage would be applied to tank roof or floor (or other weakspot) if it was inside blast sphere. Back then HE almost always did 50% damage on failed penetration because armour was bypassed most of the time (hit gun mantlet - damage was applied to commander's hatch). Now, instead sphere, HE shell impact creates set of rays and damage is applied to the weakest armour "touched" by those rays, which means damage is applied only to armour located in line of sight of explosion.

 

I'm pretty sure the blast radius has always been created backwards from the point of impact. So hitting the roof from frontal plate would be impossible.

UrQuan #17 Posted 22 April 2018 - 11:45 AM

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View PostRamRaid90, on 22 April 2018 - 08:33 AM, said:

 

I'm pretty sure the blast radius has always been created backwards from the point of impact. So hitting the roof from frontal plate would be impossible.

 

He's right tho, in (very) old calculations HE was stupidly OP. Was in the age of +- 4 tier MM. Loading HE was the way to go against armor: 'poof' no armor! Old topic about when they changed it: 'the new HE mechanics', where there's reference to the old mechancis as well ('new' is the ray mechanism, where HE can only 'touch' armor in line of sight of the explosion)

Considering it was changed in 2011, I don't blame ya for not knowing. 


Edited by UrQuan, 22 April 2018 - 11:47 AM.


RamRaid90 #18 Posted 22 April 2018 - 11:56 AM

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View PostUrQuan, on 22 April 2018 - 10:45 AM, said:

 

He's right tho, in (very) old calculations HE was stupidly OP. Was in the age of +- 4 tier MM. Loading HE was the way to go against armor: 'poof' no armor! Old topic about when they changed it: 'the new HE mechanics', where there's reference to the old mechancis as well ('new' is the ray mechanism, where HE can only 'touch' armor in line of sight of the explosion)

Considering it was changed in 2011, I don't blame ya for not knowing. 

 

To a point he's correct.

 

The same still holds true, the rays are drawn in a spherical shape around the impact point and the weakest armour touched by a "ray" which has not broken will be used for calculations.

 

Same principle, however the rays prevent splash being taken through walls for example.



Dr_ownape #19 Posted 22 April 2018 - 01:57 PM

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perfect timing jump - just about to buy it. im guessing i need the 14cm gun ASAP?

TheJumpMaster #20 Posted 22 April 2018 - 02:01 PM

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View PostCircleOfSorrow, on 22 April 2018 - 12:03 AM, said:

Were you doing 450-650 dmg with the base or prem HE?

 

I'm a Dinger, premium of course :P




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