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mollethepro #1 Posted 23 April 2018 - 10:53 AM

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camping is a part of tank warfare, why is it so bad? i know some idiot in a is 7 will always think he can snipe (wich he can bcs its a russian tank) but otherwise, its fine in my opinion. 

is it something i dont understand?



Nethraniel #2 Posted 23 April 2018 - 10:55 AM

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Camping is not bad in itself. If you know, where to camp and shoot up the advancing enemy, everything is fine.

 

If you camp by driving somewhere on the map and sitting there no matter the situation in the battle, you are a scrub.

 

Mostly scrubs camp bush... that's why it is regarded as bad.



PeaceWalker1 #3 Posted 23 April 2018 - 10:58 AM

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Camping is fine, as long as not everyone camps, some tanks have to scout and some tanks arent very useful when camping.

 

Some people are also mad because they like to rush the enemy, but they die a stupid death if they do it alone



Dr_ownape #4 Posted 23 April 2018 - 11:00 AM

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a lot of time you see some TDs camping on the redline (overlord). the issue is that they will only have an impact on the game when it is already lost because your team have died fighting over the important parts of the map that you, generally, can't influence.

 

Oh and as Neth wrote



Thornvalley #5 Posted 23 April 2018 - 11:00 AM

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Because it leads to lower winrate in the long run by loss of map control. Sure it can be useful occasionally, but not on average.

Edited by Thornvalley, 23 April 2018 - 11:39 AM.


KillingJoker #6 Posted 23 April 2018 - 11:06 AM

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Great topic, 

 

i think there is a missconception between tactical camping, and "camping" as a result of being coward, passive or a bad player...

 

Yesterday i just had a game that is an excelent example of what is a tactical "camping" in my opinion:

 

- i had a very good defensive tank (Mauschen) , the map terrain and enemy tanks line up, considering it had 2 artys, good turreted armored autoloaders and even a T95

made me think that defending was the better choice. 

 

I didnt had the mobility or the map to push forward, since by pushing forward, the arty and the enemy would easly take advantage of my lake of mobility, traverse etc etc

 

And i still think i did the right decision about camping... but this is not just about camping, its also about how other players react to "camping" without even noticing that what you do is actually... right. 

 

I know this might seem a bit of a paradox, but i am usualy a very agressive player,  specialy with heavy tanks, you can check other replays i have with heavies, and you will notice i am not camper, but this time, i wanted to camp, first my team didnt go north, in the Artic region map, and that gave me another reason to just try to defend the base...

and i did... but not every other players accepted this, and a guy even stoped playing, just to completely ignore the game and passed the entire match trying to anoy me...

 

I have the replay, this is not about naming and shaming, but its a good example of how someone can be so stupid, and still not understand that what your doing is actually right for the situation, and now wonder, we lost, because, i camped, but still i was defending, and he was doign nothing, if i was playing his tank (Lowe) i could be more agressive, since he have a very good turret for that sloped area in the heavies terrain at artic region, but.... he didnt, he basicly stayed in the game anoying me, the entire match, and we lost...

 

*edited*

 

so... camping or not? i would say, it depends on the map, depends on the tank you play, your team behavior, and how you predict the battle will turn into...

 

In this particular case, we lost and my effort was completely disrupted by a team that didnt go north and other player who basicly decided to anoy me ratter than play

but still... i think i did the right choice, i fully accept that some people might not agree with me, but what would i do differently? if i go fight west, the enemy flank our TD's like they did... the TD's die, and even if i win the heavies fight with 2 arties, 1 T95, and a Emil2, that would take a lot of advantage from his turret on that terrain.... even i won that fight...

I would ended up being gangbanged by the flankers from north. 

 

 


Edited by xxTANK_Uxx, 23 April 2018 - 11:52 AM.
This post has been edited by the moderation team due to Naming & Shaming.


jabster #7 Posted 23 April 2018 - 11:21 AM

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View Postmollethepro, on 23 April 2018 - 09:53 AM, said:

camping is a part of tank warfare, why is it so bad? i know some idiot in a is 7 will always think he can snipe (wich he can bcs its a russian tank) but otherwise, its fine in my opinion. 

is it something i dont understand?

 

a) In real life tanks were generally designed around offensive actions and mobilty

b) Camping hands the initiative to the enemy team

c) There’s a difference between supporting an attack and camping so effectively removing you tank from combat until the battle is either won or lost

d) WoT is an arcade game with tanks not a tank warfare simulation



Thejagdpanther #8 Posted 23 April 2018 - 11:31 AM

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Camping, pushing, tanking, flanking, rushing... are all the things you can do in the game.

They can be right or wrong, it all depends on

  • when
  • where
  • with what
  • vs what

 

"Absolutes" are stupid and pointless, doing the correct thing at the correct time in the correct place is what make you a better player with (usually) also a better wr.


Edited by Thejagdpanther, 23 April 2018 - 11:32 AM.


HQ65 #9 Posted 23 April 2018 - 11:33 AM

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View Postmollethepro, on 23 April 2018 - 10:53 AM, said:

camping is a part of tank warfare, why is it so bad? i know some idiot in a is 7 will always think he can snipe (wich he can bcs its a russian tank) but otherwise, its fine in my opinion. 

is it something i dont understand?

 

Don't quite understand you original post...Are you saying it is OK to camp as long as it is not in an IS7?

imendars #10 Posted 23 April 2018 - 11:33 AM

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View Postjabster, on 23 April 2018 - 01:21 PM, said:

 

a) In real life tanks were generally designed around offensive actions and mobilty

b) Camping hands the initiative to the enemy team

c) There’s a difference between supporting an attack and camping so effectively removing you tank from combat until the battle is either won or lost

d) WoT is an arcade game with tanks not a tank warfare simulation

 

And yet in real life tanks attack when the time is right and not just when they feel like it.

There was some sort of strategy in it, not just a noob train and hope for the best.

 

Also some players cant handle psychologically very aggressive pushing in first line (for example, 2 good IS7 coming against you and you manage to ding on them...).

Thats why they would be better as a support.

Problems start when everyone is support and bad at it...



dex_1950 #11 Posted 23 April 2018 - 11:41 AM

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Some tanks need to camp. For example 103B or Grile15, but for the different reasons. 103B is good sniper, and limited mobility kills you instantly (in close fight), Grile15 is a glass canon with shitty camo and no armor, so close combat is cancer (and bloom is out of this world).

 

Camping IS-7, that's stupid, unless it's lost fight and you try to squeeze 1-2 shots of damage.

 

 

Why "people" camping?

  • Why they push valley on Lake Ville?
  • Why they go to the beach on Overlord?
  • Why they decide to push in most retarded point of time?
  • Why they trade bad?

And so on, many questions, too many bad players.



TungstenHitman #12 Posted 23 April 2018 - 11:47 AM

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View Postmollethepro, on 23 April 2018 - 09:53 AM, said:

camping is a part of tank warfare, why is it so bad?

 

Edit- this all depends on what you consider camping to be? The term seems to be thrown around at anything from spotting in a bush to sniping to working a particular area on the map. If what you are doing is genuinely working towards a win, useful and contributing in a meaningful way throughout the battle from start to finish it can't be frowned upon or criticized much. I would consider camping a player that just goes to a location where they are utterly useless to anything that's happening on that map for pretty much the entire battle. A player that is not supporting or spotting or sniping and is basically just camped up behind a building or hill with no ambition to do anything much else.

 

The fact is that in this game, classes of tanks are stereotyped by their typical playstyles but depending on map, tank and tiering, this varies greatly. Some heavies are paper but good snipers, some TD's are in your face armored monsters, some light tanks are big and awkward not particularly suited for stealthy high speed espionage and a bottom tier heavy tank ain't gonna be expected to lead the front line push that's for sure. No, it's more the top tier Type4 that hides at the back behind a hill with arty is or a high camo quick light tank that camps redline on Malinovka is what I consider a camper. 


Edited by TungstenHitman, 23 April 2018 - 12:05 PM.


StinkyStonky #13 Posted 23 April 2018 - 11:47 AM

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We need to make a distinction between camping and sniping.

 

Many maps have a choke point where the heavies brawl.  Often support tanks can hang back and shoot from range.  This is fine.

Early on in the game tanks take up positions and wait for something to happen, spotters to spot, yoloers to yolo, etc.  This is fine.

 

Towards the end of the game, some players continue with their "I'm defending the cap" mentality and stay in a place where they cannot see anything and cannot help any of their team mates.

In this case, either their team goes on to win and they come in the bottom few having contributed virtually nothing.  This is fine.

 

Or their team gets wiped out and the enemy wolf packs, snipers and arty come and get them and end their game very quickly.  This annoys team mates.  If they had got involved in the battle, even just to provide another target for the enemy to shoot at, it may have turned the tide.  When a red player does this (often the case) it's annoying.  When a green/blue does it (rarely) it's infuriating.



NoobySkooby #14 Posted 23 April 2018 - 12:11 PM

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View PostNethraniel, on 23 April 2018 - 10:55 AM, said:

Camping is not bad in itself. If you know, where to camp and shoot up the advancing enemy, everything is fine.

 

If you camp by driving somewhere on the map and sitting there no matter the situation in the battle, you are a scrub.

 

Mostly scrubs camp bush... that's why it is regarded as bad.

 

Tank destroyers are meant to camp though aren't they? Especially in or preferably behind a bush, I tried moving with my AT15a, albeit slowly towards the battle, and ended up getting stomped, same sort of thing happens when i take my TOG 2 out for a giggle, when you see the enemy it is your giggles vs their howls of laughter when they see that thing:trollface:

TungstenHitman #15 Posted 23 April 2018 - 12:20 PM

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View Postkaptainkrunch, on 23 April 2018 - 11:11 AM, said:

 

 same sort of thing happens when i take my TOG 2 out for a giggle, when you see the enemy it is your giggles vs their howls of laughter when they see that thing:trollface:

 

I think it would only be fair for the poor ol TOG to get a secondary turret on the rear similar to the Halloween tanks. Maybe not historically accurate but who cares it would at least give some sort of fairness to what is a ridiculously slow and unmissable sausage tank, even splice with an small cal SPG, anything but give the poor love boats some sting to it's laughably long tail. "but but, it was long so it could go over trenches" silence!



Cobra6 #16 Posted 23 April 2018 - 12:29 PM

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There is a time and place for camping and the majority of the player base does not grasp which time and place this is.

 

Basically it's only when you are defending/outnumbered in broad terms (with some exceptions), not at the start of the match, not when you are full hp against a one shot enemy etc.

 

Cobra 6



250swb #17 Posted 23 April 2018 - 12:40 PM

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View PostDr_ownape, on 23 April 2018 - 10:00 AM, said:

a lot of time you see some TDs camping on the redline (overlord). the issue is that they will only have an impact on the game when it is already lost because your team have died fighting over the important parts of the map that you, generally, can't influence.

 

 

Actually TD's camp on the redline to shoot all the enemy tanks that are freely allowed to yolo through the lines at the start of the game because everybody on the friendly team has gone to the beach. You can't blame TD's for anticipating the poor play of the rest of the team, if there was any confidence in team tactics or individual maturity I'm sure you'd see far more TD's covering ridge lines much deeper into the map from the get go.



Strappster #18 Posted 23 April 2018 - 12:56 PM

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Reminds me of when all-chat was still a thing and the attacking team in assault battles would insult the defenders for camping instead of coming out from their positions and trying to attack the attackers, who were camping and hoping they would do exactly that. Camping in defence is a valid tactic for the defenders as they can win by running out the clock. Camping in attack is dumb because you're not pushing your objective. 

 

IMO camping is simply another tool in the box that should be used when it's appropriate, otherwise you're trying to undo a stubborn bolt with mole grips - while it works occasionally, more often it leads to a rounded bolt head and bleeding knuckles.



Rooikat_ZA #19 Posted 23 April 2018 - 01:09 PM

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View PostThejagdpanther, on 23 April 2018 - 11:31 AM, said:

Camping, pushing, tanking, flanking, rushing... are all the things you can do in the game.

They can be right or wrong, it all depends on

  • when
  • where
  • with what
  • vs what

 

"Absolutes" are stupid and pointless, doing the correct thing at the correct time in the correct place is what make you a better player with (usually) also a better wr.

 

Brilliant.....no really....brilliant

 

Say it all with as few words as possible

 

However, I'd like to add a couple of points that are imperative for the above to work

  1. User Education
  2. Experience

 

The sad thing is there are still a few people 'yolo'ing around in the game that struggle to comprehend these 2 things

 


Edited by Rooikat_ZA, 23 April 2018 - 01:09 PM.


K_A #20 Posted 23 April 2018 - 01:10 PM

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Way I see it, there's a difference in camping and sniping.

 

Sniping is when you locate yourself to a hidden position far off from the front line and use your view range/ other's spotting and your camo to shoot at enemy tanks while remaining hidden, changing position when necessary to find more targets. This is generally fine, especially in tanks that were designed to do this and would be bad brawling on the front line.

 

Camping is when you locate yourself to a hidden position far off from the front line but don't have anything to shoot at, but refuse to switch positions even when no targets show up anywhere for you to shoot at. The position you occupy might be a good sniping position in some situations, but not in this particular battle, but you stubbornly refuse to relocate and move up in order to find targets. This is bad in almost every situation ever.

 

Late in the battle it might be necessary to go camp-mode and stand your ground with no targets in sight, but only in specific situations where the relocating part is too dangerous and could result in you getting caught out and losing the battle entirely. Too many players think this way right from the start and end up camping the entire battle in useless positions.


Edited by K_A, 23 April 2018 - 01:11 PM.





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