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Personal perceptions.


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Poll: Luck of the draw. (24 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 250 battles in order to participate this poll.

What do you think is your experience most of the time?

  1. Both teams personal rating seems usually about equal. (13 votes [54.17%])

    Percentage of vote: 54.17%

  2. Your teams personal rating seems usually the better of the two. (2 votes [8.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.33%

  3. Your teams personal rating seems usually the worse of the two. (9 votes [37.50%])

    Percentage of vote: 37.50%

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Private_Pearts #1 Posted 24 April 2018 - 04:04 PM

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Can I ask you guys to give me your personal perceptions about (sorry) match making please?

 

It will always be subjective and I am vaguely aware that that MM tries to match vehicles and vehicle types but not personal ratings. So far as personal ratings are concerned you get a roll of the dice.

 

I am also aware that a teams PR can influence the chance to win but it is never a foregone conclusion. The best team in the world can have a bad match but my perception is that more than half the time the PR of the team I am on is lower than the PR of the opposing team.

 

I might expect that maybe a third of my matches would would give my team a serious disadvantage compared to the opposing team, and a third of the time it would be vice versa and another third of the time each teams overall PR would be roughly equal IF it was a simple roll of the dice but that isn't what I am seeing in my matches.

 

I am also aware that not everybody uses mods and so can't be sure anyway if the enemy team is better or worse until the end of the match and even then if the score is close you might just put it down to bad luck in a roughly equal match up. But how often do you feel that your game results not even close like a 15 to 5 win or an all out ROLFStomp loss?

 

Anyway I wondered how others perceived their dice rolls to be when weighing up the theoretical skill base of each team?

 

Thanks for your time.

 

 



StinkyStonky #2 Posted 24 April 2018 - 04:11 PM

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Poll needs a 4th option ...

 

* Sometimes my team has the higher PR, other times it's the other team, very occasionally they are roughly the same.  On average it balances out.



HeidenSieker #3 Posted 24 April 2018 - 04:17 PM

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Perhaps you should include an "I don't know" option.

Kozzy #4 Posted 24 April 2018 - 04:20 PM

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You do realise that a LOT of data (actual data) on this very subject has been collected and analysed.

 

Everyone has access to the tool that analyses the teams' compositions (and the source code for the tool if they are in any doubt how it works - shout out to Baldrikk for making the tool available to everyone).

 

View PostKozzy, on 03 January 2018 - 08:27 AM, said:

Just finished using Baldrickk's replay analyser to work out whether or not, on average, I have been given even teams.  I wanted to make sure I had a decent amount of data so that a reasonable conclusion could be drawn.  With this in mind I decided to analyse all of my available replays in one batch which turned out to be 9,666 files - about 25% of all my games.  These games also, interestingly, involved over 200,000 different player IDs.  

 

Results:

My team's average rating:
        5245.065473098897
The other team's average rating:
        5251.841296952719

 

So, on average (and excluding me) the enemy team's players were around 0.12% better than mine or to put it another way, the teams were about 99.88% the same (on average).

 

Conclusion:

It appears that WG does not take player skill into account at all when building the teams - I do not get 'lumbered with noobs all the time' or 'get carried by pros all the time'.  

 

Massive thanks to Baldrickk for creating the tool and recommend any potential tinfoil hat wearer to try it.

 

 

 

Feel free to analyse your own replays to work out if you have indeed been placed on 'weaker' or 'stronger' teams.


Edited by Kozzy, 25 April 2018 - 08:26 AM.


CircleOfSorrow #5 Posted 24 April 2018 - 04:20 PM

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MM is completely random outside of tier and vehicle type.  Just like every other random element in this game, it seems to be working as intended.  If you really wanted to know about the teams MM was placing you with, you would need to actually do the work and collect the data over time.  

 

*edit - ^^Kozzy said "Everyone has access to the tool that analyses the team's compositions (and the source code for the tool if they are in any doubt how it works - shout out to Baldrikk for making the tool available to everyone)."

 

There.  You don't even have to collect the data.


Edited by CircleOfSorrow, 24 April 2018 - 04:21 PM.


Private_Pearts #6 Posted 24 April 2018 - 04:20 PM

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View PostStinkyStonky, on 24 April 2018 - 04:11 PM, said:

Poll needs a 4th option ...

 

* Sometimes my team has the higher PR, other times it's the other team, very occasionally they are roughly the same.  On average it balances out.

 

That is option 1 bud....................

Private_Pearts #7 Posted 24 April 2018 - 04:21 PM

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View PostCircleOfSorrow, on 24 April 2018 - 04:20 PM, said:

MM is completely random outside of tier and vehicle type.  Just like every other random element in this game, it seems to be working as intended.  If you really wanted to know about the teams MM was placing you with, you would need to actually do the work and collect the data over time.  

 

*edit - ^^Kozzy said "Everyone has access to the tool that analyses the team's compositions (and the source code for the tool if they are in any doubt how it works - shout out to Baldrikk for making the tool available to everyone)."

 

There.  You don't even have to collect the data.

 

That is kind of the point of the post.......................

Private_Pearts #8 Posted 24 April 2018 - 04:22 PM

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View PostKozzy, on 24 April 2018 - 04:20 PM, said:

You do realise that a LOT data (actual data) on this very subject has been collected and analysed.

 

Everyone has access to the tool that analyses the teams' compositions (and the source code for the tool if they are in any doubt how it works - shout out to Baldrikk for making the tool available to everyone).

 

 

 

Feel free to analyse your own replays to work out if you have indeed been placed on 'weaker' or 'stronger' teams.

 

Do you have a link?

Kozzy #9 Posted 24 April 2018 - 04:23 PM

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View PostPrivate_Pearts, on 24 April 2018 - 03:21 PM, said:

 

That is kind of the point of the post.......................

 

I guess it is interesting to compare perceptions to gathered results but the only problem is some people are happy with what the 'feels' tell them and they do NOT want data to prove their feels wrong.

 

Link is here for others (just noticed your edit)

 

https://github.com/B...ay_team_balance

 

 


Edited by Kozzy, 24 April 2018 - 04:26 PM.


Private_Pearts #10 Posted 24 April 2018 - 04:24 PM

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Never mind. Found it. Downloading now. Still would like to know what others perceptions are.

Private_Pearts #11 Posted 24 April 2018 - 04:28 PM

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View PostKozzy, on 24 April 2018 - 04:23 PM, said:

 

I guess it is interesting to compare perceptions to gathered results but the only problem is some people are happy with what the 'feels' tell them and they do NOT want data to prove their feels wrong.

 

Link is here for others (just noticed your edit)

 

https://github.com/B...ay_team_balance

 

 

 

Good point well made. I started by wanting to know if I was imagining it but hopefully the tool you pointed out will give me an answer. Thanks.

CircleOfSorrow #12 Posted 24 April 2018 - 04:33 PM

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View PostPrivate_Pearts, on 24 April 2018 - 03:21 PM, said:

 

That is kind of the point of the post.......................

 

I told you that I perceive the random mm to be random.  Is that what you wanted or not?



StinkyStonky #13 Posted 24 April 2018 - 04:34 PM

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View PostPrivate_Pearts, on 24 April 2018 - 03:20 PM, said:

 

That is option 1 bud....................

 

No it isn't.  Option 1 says the PRs "usually about equal"

My option 4 says "very occasionally they are roughly the same"

 

That is the reality.  The PRs are very rarely "about equal".  They are virtually always very different.

 

No wonder you can't put together a decent poll.  You can't even understand simple differences even when they are pointed out.



Private_Pearts #14 Posted 24 April 2018 - 04:36 PM

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Kozzy. Where would I find the PR result in the report?

NUKLEAR_SLUG #15 Posted 24 April 2018 - 04:37 PM

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View PostPrivate_Pearts, on 24 April 2018 - 04:24 PM, said:

Never mind. Found it. Downloading now. Still would like to know what others perceptions are.

 

Why? What does it matter what you "think" is going on? Only the actual data matters and from Kozzys near 10K dataset the MM indicates the expected randomness.

Private_Pearts #16 Posted 24 April 2018 - 04:38 PM

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View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 24 April 2018 - 04:37 PM, said:

 

Why? What does it matter what you "think" is going on? Only the actual data matters and from Kozzys near 10K dataset the MM indicates the expected randomness.

 

I am interested. Does that answer your question?

NUKLEAR_SLUG #17 Posted 24 April 2018 - 05:16 PM

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Are you more interested in how many people agree with you WG are rigging your games or whether or not games are actually being rigged?

Private_Pearts #18 Posted 24 April 2018 - 05:26 PM

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View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 24 April 2018 - 05:16 PM, said:

Are you more interested in how many people agree with you WG are rigging your games or whether or not games are actually being rigged?

 

I want to see my stats. What part of that are you struggling with? Are you finding it a tiny bit complicated? Do you want me to colour it in for you? Hold your hand maybe? Or do you just want to troll?

Edited by Private_Pearts, 24 April 2018 - 05:27 PM.


HeidenSieker #19 Posted 24 April 2018 - 05:31 PM

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For goodness' sake! Why do peoplke always descend into "terrible twos" behaviour? Grow up, forumites!

Erwin_Von_Braun #20 Posted 24 April 2018 - 06:28 PM

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View PostPrivate_Pearts, on 24 April 2018 - 03:04 PM, said:

Can I ask you guys to give me your personal perceptions about (sorry) match making please?

 

It will always be subjective and I am vaguely aware that that MM tries to match vehicles and vehicle types but not personal ratings. So far as personal ratings are concerned you get a roll of the dice.

 

I am also aware that a teams PR can influence the chance to win but it is never a foregone conclusion. The best team in the world can have a bad match but my perception is that more than half the time the PR of the team I am on is lower than the PR of the opposing team.

 

I might expect that maybe a third of my matches would would give my team a serious disadvantage compared to the opposing team, and a third of the time it would be vice versa and another third of the time each teams overall PR would be roughly equal IF it was a simple roll of the dice but that isn't what I am seeing in my matches.

 

I am also aware that not everybody uses mods and so can't be sure anyway if the enemy team is better or worse until the end of the match and even then if the score is close you might just put it down to bad luck in a roughly equal match up. But how often do you feel that your game results not even close like a 15 to 5 win or an all out ROLFStomp loss?

 

Anyway I wondered how others perceived their dice rolls to be when weighing up the theoretical skill base of each team?

 

Thanks for your time.

 

 

 

Should be an option for 'Not a Scoobies mate, as I don't have any third party software installed'




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