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Tier 7 MM really bad as well?


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TheOddRogue #1 Posted 26 April 2018 - 02:07 PM

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Been playing a bit of tier 7 lately, and i'm noticing how god damned frequently i'm bottom tier in a tier 9 game, I'd say about as frequently you'd be bottom tier in a tier 8 facing tier 10. It's still not as bad as facing tier 10's in a tier 8 since tier 9's aren't completely Edited . I think it is because more and more people realize what a pile of craptier 10 is and instead start playing tier 9, thus causing worse MM for tier 7's. 

 

Don't buy into the "Tier 7 MM godlike" hype, it's BS. Only tier with good MM is tier 9. 

 

This post has been edited by the moderation team due to inappropriate remarks. 


Edited by VMX, 26 April 2018 - 02:14 PM.


Steve8066 #2 Posted 26 April 2018 - 02:11 PM

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The MM making you bottom tier 60%+ of the time goes all the way down to tier 4.

Enforcer1975 #3 Posted 26 April 2018 - 02:12 PM

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I had better luck with tier 6-7 unlike tier 8 where basically 90% of my games were bottom tier but to add insult to injury the majority games i played with tier 10 tanks were one tier...



sabre_ferret #4 Posted 26 April 2018 - 02:41 PM

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Tier X is unplayable.  WG have managed to make their atrocious MM even worse somehow.  Add in their usual rigging of "R"NG and this game is basically a joke now.  

Steeleye_Spam #5 Posted 26 April 2018 - 06:40 PM

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well, duh

 



Rati_Festa #6 Posted 26 April 2018 - 06:44 PM

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It wouldnt be that suprising to see T10 regulars dropping to T9 with the state of the highest tier. I've been avoiding it, sick of 268 4 and types and full t10 matches as well. T10 isnt good at all at the moment imo

DeBanus #7 Posted 26 April 2018 - 07:41 PM

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The Matchmaker in World of Tanks has been broken for many years and honestly will NEVER be fixed, because you dont make direct revenue from it.

 

Wargaming rather devolpes HD sounds and HD maps in order to fix the core elements of this game



Negativvv #8 Posted 26 April 2018 - 07:45 PM

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T9 is the best MM I've come across so far. 

 

Almost every game you're the middle of a 3/5/7 split. It's rare you ever get the T9/T10 split and even that is ok.



Bulldog_Drummond #9 Posted 26 April 2018 - 07:48 PM

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View Postsabre_ferret, on 26 April 2018 - 01:41 PM, said:

Tier X is unplayable.  WG have managed to make their atrocious MM even worse somehow.  Add in their usual rigging of "R"NG and this game is basically a joke now.  

 

People whined for years that the old MM was terrible.

 

I rather liked it, and got many a neg rep for warning that if there were changes they would only make it worse.

 

And lo!  What Mystic Bulldog has said has come to pass.



Element6_TheSprout #10 Posted 26 April 2018 - 07:51 PM

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I realize I am rather fortunate being so ignorant, not finding the MM to be much of an issue, at least not in comparison to the issue I despise the most, which have and will happen for all eternity; muppet team deployments.

 

Bottom tier grants more XP, making top 5 results all the more enjoyable.



D4wiD3K #11 Posted 27 April 2018 - 10:06 AM

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View PostElement6_TheSprout, on 26 April 2018 - 06:51 PM, said:

Bottom tier grants more XP, making top 5 results all the more enjoyable.

 

The "you get more XP as bottom tier" argument is BS. If you have to play a useless tank that can't initiate anything that is highly dependent on your teammates, getting a tiny bit more XP from the few penetrations you get isn't much of a consolation. On a useful tank you penetrate so many more shots that you will on average get much more XP even if your multiplier is a little bit worse. Getting one awesome bottom tier once in a while doesn't change this. 

 

If you are decent at the game you also lose more games as bottom tier because again, you don't have a valuable tank and you're relying on others to set up a good game for you. What's better, a small XP multiplier or winning the game which incidentally gives you a huge XP multiplier?

 

It's not a coincidence that if you go to youtube and watch at the best replays or tank review ace games they are almost never bottom tier. 

 

I find it amazing how brainwashed people are in this game. +2/-2 is the biggest reason why this game lacks interaction and why the gameplay is so passive simply because some tanks are so much stronger than the others yet they are all shoved into one battle to fight each other. The "It's not my role to fight the enemy top tiers" argument dies away pretty quickly when you realize how unreliable your own top tiers are and after a zero damage game it's not really much of a consolation. How can anyone see such limpdick gameplay as a good thing? 

 

Is getting one "epic" bottom tier ace once or twice a month worth screwing the whole game balance? It's like wearing too tight shoes all day just so you can feel the relief of taking them off in the evening.


Edited by D4wiD3K, 27 April 2018 - 10:09 AM.


tumppi776 #12 Posted 27 April 2018 - 10:10 AM

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Play couple games T8 and wow T7 feels like WoT heaven.

Element6_TheSprout #13 Posted 27 April 2018 - 10:37 AM

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View PostD4wiD3K, on 27 April 2018 - 10:06 AM, said:

 

The "you get more XP as bottom tier" argument is BS. If you have to play a useless tank that can't initiate anything that is highly dependent on your teammates, getting a tiny bit more XP from the few penetrations you get isn't much of a consolation. On a useful tank you penetrate so many more shots that you will on average get much more XP even if your multiplier is a little bit worse. Getting one awesome bottom tier once in a while doesn't change this. 

 

If you are decent at the game you also lose more games as bottom tier because again, you don't have a valuable tank and you're relying on others to set up a good game for you. What's better, a small XP multiplier or winning the game which incidentally gives you a huge XP multiplier?

 

It's not a coincidence that if you go to youtube and watch at the best replays or tank review ace games they are almost never bottom tier. 

 

I find it amazing how brainwashed people are in this game. +2/-2 is the biggest reason why this game lacks interaction and why the gameplay is so passive simply because some tanks are so much stronger than the others yet they are all shoved into one battle to fight each other. The "It's not my role to fight the enemy top tiers" argument dies away pretty quickly when you realize how unreliable your own top tiers are and after a zero damage game it's not really much of a consolation. How can anyone see such limpdick gameplay as a good thing? 

 

Is getting one "epic" bottom tier ace once or twice a month worth screwing the whole game balance? It's like wearing too tight shoes all day just so you can feel the relief of taking them off in the evening.

I think the fallacy here is believing that one should not be dependent on the team, in a team game. The idea some people seem to have, that one should be able to play as a one man army sounds a bit silly to me to be honest.

 

Oddly enough I have my "best" winrates in tier 5, 6, 7 and 9, with 8 being a tad bit low since I, as many others, bought T8 premiums early on and have so many battles that it will take ages to bring it up to my current level. So winning as bottom tier doesn't seem to be much of an issue really. And I do not really expect a huge bonus for doing adequately as bottom tier, what there is today is enough.

 

+/-2 is the biggest reason there is a short waiting time in all tiers, to get a battle. If you go to Wot News and look at the tierspread you will find that Tier 2 has more players than Tier 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10 combined. Tier 8 is, at the current listing, less than 5% of all plays, imagine what a +/-1 MM would do to queue times with such low numbers, and the very odd tank "balances" it would create between two teams, it would have an extremely hard time balancing out HT to HT, MT to MT and TD to TD between the teams, more so that what we have today.

 

I'd argue that the people who are brainwashed are those who do not even know of these issues and think that any and all tiers are so populated that you can do whatever you want to the MM and all will be fine and dandy.



D4wiD3K #14 Posted 27 April 2018 - 10:57 AM

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View PostElement6_TheSprout, on 27 April 2018 - 09:37 AM, said:

I think the fallacy here is believing that one should not be dependent on the team, in a team game. The idea some people seem to have, that one should be able to play as a one man army sounds a bit silly to me to be honest.

 

Oddly enough I have my "best" winrates in tier 5, 6, 7 and 9, with 8 being a tad bit low since I, as many others, bought T8 premiums early on and have so many battles that it will take ages to bring it up to my current level. So winning as bottom tier doesn't seem to be much of an issue really. And I do not really expect a huge bonus for doing adequately as bottom tier, what there is today is enough.

 

+/-2 is the biggest reason there is a short waiting time in all tiers, to get a battle. If you go to Wot News and look at the tierspread you will find that Tier 2 has more players than Tier 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10 combined. Tier 8 is, at the current listing, less than 5% of all plays, imagine what a +/-1 MM would do to queue times with such low numbers, and the very odd tank "balances" it would create between two teams, it would have an extremely hard time balancing out HT to HT, MT to MT and TD to TD between the teams, more so that what we have today.

 

I'd argue that the people who are brainwashed are those who do not even know of these issues and think that any and all tiers are so populated that you can do whatever you want to the MM and all will be fine and dandy.

 

Is it working out then? Is the +2/-2 promoting teamwork? There's hardly any teamwork on World of Tanks, the gameplay is super stagnant because everyone has by now learned how unreliable your teammates are and on their bottom tier tanks they find it more sensible to just sit behind a corner and camp than expect a functional brain.

 

It isn't teamwork that a few lucky players get assigned overpowered tanks and are expected to do the heavy lifting while the others are praying that their team gets the better top tiers. One player having an overpowered tank and another one having a useless one isn't "teamwork". It's a stupid, broken system that results in lots of frustration and no interaction between the players.

 

The "shorter queue times" argument is yet more BS. It was stated during one of the Q&As that +1/-1 would actually speed up the queue times. More evidence of this was that in 9.19 Wargaming had to "fix" the matchmaker to prioritize the 3-5-7 template. In 9.18 when the different templates were treated as equal the game created "too many" +1/-1 or +/-0 battles because they were easier and faster to construct.

 

If long queue times are a critical problem for you, you should really be praying for +1/-1. But I suspect that since that would actually fix problems in the game, long queue times are no longer going to be a problem for you and we'll hear another tired myth that's already been proven wrong many times.

 

One thing about this community seems that years old myths that have been proven wrong still get repeated over and over again and people rather stick to bad arguments than admit they are wrong.


Edited by D4wiD3K, 27 April 2018 - 11:02 AM.


Lycopersicon #15 Posted 27 April 2018 - 11:02 AM

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Thanks to the pattern disaster, we are to be bottom tier in about half of all our games, but this varies somewhat between tiers. My vague feeling is that the odd tiers (7 and 5) are more generous, while the even (6 and 8) are particularly brutal.

Element6_TheSprout #16 Posted 27 April 2018 - 11:13 AM

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View PostD4wiD3K, on 27 April 2018 - 10:57 AM, said:

 

Is it working out then? Is the +2/-2 promoting teamwork? There's hardly any teamwork on World of Tanks, the gameplay is super stagnant because everyone has by now learned how unreliable your teammates are and on their bottom tier tanks they find it more sensible to just sit behind a corner and camp than expect a functional brain.

 

It isn't teamwork that a few lucky players get assigned overpowered tanks and are expected to do the heavy lifting while the others are praying that their team gets the better top tiers. One player having an overpowered tank and another one having a useless one isn't "teamwork". It's a stupid, broken system that results in lots of frustration and no interaction between the players.

 

The "shorter queue times" argument is yet more BS. It was stated during one of the Q&As that +1/-1 would actually speed up the queue times. More evidence of this was that in 9.19 Wargaming had to "fix" the matchmaker to prioritize the 3-5-7 template. In 9.18 when the different templates were treated as equal the game created "too many" +1/-1 or +/-0 battles because they were easier and faster to construct.

 

If long queue times are a critical problem for you, you should really be praying for +1/-1. But I suspect that since that would actually fix problems in the game, long queue times are no longer going to be a problem for you and we'll hear another tired myth that's been proven wrong.

 

One thing about this community seems that years old myths that have been proven wrong still get repeated over and over again and people rather stick to bad arguments than admit they are wrong.

Is the gameplay really super stagnant with the relatively short average battletimes we have? To me it seems most battles range from 4 to 8 minutes in length, from 1/3 to about 1/2 of the allotted time. Maybe you get a disproportionate number of battles that takes ages to finish, due to camping, and if so I have some sympathy for you. 

 

I do not really get the impression that teams are carried by one OP tank, more often than not it seems that a team is "carried" by about 5 players, with some battles being less of course, and others where as much as 8 tanks contributing in the same ballpark. Then of course we have the situation where people in -2 tanks go to the frontlines and hope to perform as they would in a top tier tank, and then cry when they can't, instead of taking into consideration being bottom tier and playing accordingly, by playing 2nd. line support from the start and taking it from there as the battle develops.

 

Can you please link to where WG said +/-1 MM would speed things up, I'd be interested to read about it and the reasoning behind the idea.

 

Cue times are not critical to me, they are critical to player retention on an overall level. 

 

I might be wrong on the MM and queue times, if you can provide a link to something that proves me wrong, the rest is merely personal opinion and can't really be wrong, only in disagreement with your personal opinions. I cannot be wrong in playing the game for 27k+ battles and still not thinking being -2 tiers is a serious issue, I can only have an opinion that is unlike your own.



tumppi776 #17 Posted 27 April 2018 - 11:24 AM

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View PostLycopersicon, on 27 April 2018 - 10:02 AM, said:

Thanks to the pattern disaster, we are to be bottom tier in about half of all our games, but this varies somewhat between tiers. My vague feeling is that the odd tiers (7 and 5) are more generous, while the even (6 and 8) are particularly brutal.

 

"half" ? even before templates - u were at the "not top" 70% (my CDC with 2000 games logged in vbaddict). But you were top ~29%. Now youre "not top" 90% - and top 10%

tumppi776 #18 Posted 27 April 2018 - 11:29 AM

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View PostElement6_TheSprout, on 27 April 2018 - 10:13 AM, said:

 

Can you please link to where WG said +/-1 MM would speed things up, I'd be interested to read about it and the reasoning behind the idea.

 

I am not claiming +-1 making it any faster: But who cares what WG says? Theyll say whatever BS they want to justify their action in positive light.

 



Element6_TheSprout #19 Posted 27 April 2018 - 01:05 PM

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View Posttumppi776, on 27 April 2018 - 11:29 AM, said:

I am not claiming +-1 making it any faster: But who cares what WG says? Theyll say whatever BS they want to justify their action in positive light.

I never said you claimed it, I merely asked if you could link to where WG said something like that, because I am curious and want to read about it on the grounds that, at least to me, it doesn't sound plausible.



TheOddRogue #20 Posted 27 April 2018 - 01:11 PM

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View Posttumppi776, on 27 April 2018 - 09:10 AM, said:

Play couple games T8 and wow T7 feels like WoT heaven.

 

I've played tier 8 as well, and as I said tier 7 is almost as bad. When was the last time you played tier 7 btw, it has become like this recently, and it's slowly becoming worse. 




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