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P.43 Bis - looks good on paper, in practice not so good.

mini review

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Simeon85 #1 Posted 03 May 2018 - 12:30 PM

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Tier 6 medium with 240 alpha and 2k DPM, what's not to like? well sadly it's not all rosy and WG have kept this tank very average IMO due to some sneaky hidden attributes that the average player is not going to see. 

 

Pros -

 

  • 240 alpha on a tier 6 med, this is standard alpha for tier 8 mediums so having it on a tier 6 platform is great, it enables you to out trade many opponents and make the most of opportunities that comes your way.

 

  • Over 2k base DPM, so coupled with the alpha you have good DPM as well, higher than some tier 8 meds have for 240 alpha, with rammer, vents and food you are approaching nearly 2.4k DPM and a 6s reload. This means when you get opportunities, even against higher tier opponents you can shred them and against many heavies you can put two 240 alpha shots into them before they reload. 

 

  • Camo is decent and the tank is a fairly low profile target, with a full camo crew you can get to over 30% base camo and about 25% on the move. Coupled with the ok view range (360) you are a decent spotter. 

 

Cons -

 

  • Ground resistances cripple this tank's mobility on medium and soft terrain, most places on the flat you'll be struggling to go much more than 40kph and you accelerate like an oil tanker.

 

  • AP rounds are 'meh', biggest problem is the shell velocity for the AP is 700 m/s, it's a complete potato launcher, hitting anything moving at long range is complete luck, especially coupled with the base 0.38 accuracy. Then you have 140 standard AP pen which is ok, but for some reason you lose a lot more pen at range than other tier 6 meds, at 500m these rounds have just 120mm of penetration, a loss of 20mm, whereas something like a Cromwell only loses 10mm of penetration at 500m and has higher base pen to start with. 

 

  • Pressing 2 twice does not remedy that problem much because the APCR rounds are trash in every way. 180mm pen is poor against the overbuffed armour we see on tier 7 and 8 like Japanese heavies etc. (anyone used to using the 177 pen APCR rounds on the mid tier Shermans will know this) Then like the AP rounds, they lose massive amounts of pen at range, at 500m these rounds have just 140mm of penetration, in comparison a T-34-85 has 168mm of pen @ 500m for it's APCR rounds and a Cromwell has 181mm of penetration. So at 500m a Cromwell still has a decent chance of penning an IS3 frontally in the hull, whilst the P.43 might be struggling to pen the sides of many heavy tanks. 

 

  • Gun handling is poor, though for the alpha this was to be expected, bloom is pretty bad meaning fully aiming takes a while. When combined with the below average pen, below average accuracy and awful shell velocity your overall gun package is derpy as hell. 

 

  • Gun depression is -7 which seems ok, but in my experience for this sort of tank it feels awkward, you need to minimise exposure, especially as you really need to aim, so you often find you don't quite have the gun depression to make those little ridge pokes. 

 

  • The engine seems to get damaged through the front, even by relatively low calibre guns like the 76mm on the T67 managed to damage when engine in consecutive shots. Plus the fuel tanks also seem to get damged pretty easily and through the front so using food is a big risk. 

 

The tanks is overall ok and workable, but I think I'd trade some DPM for better mobility and some better shell velocity/pen, as you are a tier 6 in the current MM you get tier 8 a lot, so with a paper tier 6 med you want the mobility flank and work positions from range but the sluggishness really holds it back in this role and the awful pen at range plus the awful shell velocity makes any medium to long range fire a lot down to RNG. 

 


Edited by Simeon85, 03 May 2018 - 12:33 PM.


Balc0ra #2 Posted 03 May 2018 - 12:35 PM

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Mobility kills this one for me. I have 100% off-road driving and still it's sluggish as all heck. Camo is great, It's on pair with the Cromwell in terms of passive spotting late game. But getting to the spotting location is a different matter. Armor works when top tier. As T-34-85M's have been bouncing on it. But 140 pen drags it down too. And it don't really go over the higher alpha. And I got trolled 4 shots in a row vs a T-43 head on, on the lower plate.

 

It did look good on paper. But I doubt I will keep it around. I hope the tier 7 is better.



Search_Warrant #3 Posted 03 May 2018 - 12:40 PM

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180apcr is still better than say.. the Shermans 177apcr with only like..what?110 alpha? no armor?. ill take this any day of the week. tier 6 is like tier 8. bad MM and terrible balancing within its own tier.

 

Paper meds should have good mobility as default. they need it to live and flank with poor pen. dont know why WG keep thinking the way they do.

 

Leo is tier 7 and id guess it plays like that. 1 slug of a paper low pen tank.


Edited by Search_Warrant, 03 May 2018 - 12:43 PM.


Simeon85 #4 Posted 03 May 2018 - 12:43 PM

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View PostSearch_Warrant, on 03 May 2018 - 12:40 PM, said:

180apcr is still better than say.. the Shermans 177apcr with only like..what?110 alpha? no armor?. ill take this any day of the week. tier 6 is like tier 8. bad MM and terrible balancing within its own tier.

 

Paper meds should have good mobility as default. they need it to live and flank with poor pen. dont know why WG keep thinking the way they do.

 

The Easy8 (and others) at least though has good gun handling (v-stab), gun depression and is decently mobile, even if the top speed is not fast, it can poke ridges and snap shots to avoid exposure. 

 

It's APCR round also loses far less pen at range, at 500m it is at 158mm of pen, not 140, in fact the P.43s APCR round only has more pen at 100m, at every other range the 177 pen APCR round of the US 76mms actually has more pen. 


Edited by Simeon85, 03 May 2018 - 12:46 PM.


Balc0ra #5 Posted 03 May 2018 - 12:47 PM

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View PostSearch_Warrant, on 03 May 2018 - 12:40 PM, said:

Paper meds should have good mobility as default. they need it to live and flank with poor pen. dont know why WG keep thinking the way they do.

 

Leo is tier 7 and id guess it plays like that. 1 slug of a paper low pen tank.

 

It's not Leo or Cromwell paper. It has 80mm armor at the front at a high angle. That works surprisingly well as top tier. I get the traverse etc. What I don't get is the time it takes to get up to speed, and it's ability to keep it when not turning at all. It's like the AMX 65t. Can do 50, but you see 25 more so then not. Here on this it's 50 as well. But 40 to 44 is to be expected. And it takes way to long to get up there if there are a few humps on the way.


Edited by Balc0ra, 03 May 2018 - 12:47 PM.


Search_Warrant #6 Posted 03 May 2018 - 12:47 PM

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View PostSimeon85, on 03 May 2018 - 11:43 AM, said:

 

The Easy8 (and others) at least though has good gun handling (v-stab), gun depression and is decently mobile, even if the top speed is not fast, it can poke ridges and snap shots to avoid exposure. 

 

It's APCR round also loses far less pen at range, at 500m it is at 158mm of pen, not 140, in fact the P.43s APCR round only has more pen at 100m, at every other range the 177 pen APCR round of the US 76mms actually has more pen. 

 

Terrible accuracy tho. major killer. needs gold spam to damage even its own tier sometimes and with the low alpha it hurts credit gain.

Edited by Search_Warrant, 03 May 2018 - 12:48 PM.


Balc0ra #7 Posted 03 May 2018 - 01:19 PM

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View PostSearch_Warrant, on 03 May 2018 - 12:47 PM, said:

 

Terrible accuracy tho. major killer. needs gold spam to damage even its own tier sometimes and with the low alpha it hurts credit gain.

 

It would actually be fine with 0.36 even. 0.4 vs it's downsides is not really.. ideal IMO.

 

But just got the new map with this. In the time it took the Cromwell B platoon to cross the map and drive up the road to the rear of our hill. It's the time It took me to get down there. On that map it's a 100% a support med. Not something you cross with. Even the T14 go around faster then I did it felt like.



Search_Warrant #8 Posted 03 May 2018 - 01:26 PM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 03 May 2018 - 12:19 PM, said:

 

It would actually be fine with 0.36 even. 0.4 vs it's downsides is not really.. ideal IMO.

 

But just got the new map with this. In the time it took the Cromwell B platoon to cross the map and drive up the road to the rear of our hill. It's the time It took me to get down there. On that map it's a 100% a support med. Not something you cross with. Even the T14 go around faster then I did it felt like.

 

Sounds like typical WG balancing. they did the same with Swedish meds/heavys. looked good on test then they utterly crushed there mobility and other stats like turret turn rate. scumbags WG.

 

played 1 match in the tier 6.... this thing is not a medium. its accelerations bad. it cant even reach 40 in a MEDIUM with GARBAGE PEN. how are you supposed to use that crap pen with piss poor mobility? buff the pen or buff the mobility. the match i just had was over so fast i couldent even get any damage coz i was THAT SLOW.


Edited by Search_Warrant, 03 May 2018 - 01:50 PM.


TORKARDGIANT #9 Posted 03 May 2018 - 01:49 PM

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Is the italian line out today ? uploading updates now but taking forever

tank276 #10 Posted 03 May 2018 - 01:51 PM

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View PostTORKARDGIANT, on 03 May 2018 - 12:49 PM, said:

Is the italian line out today ? uploading updates now but taking forever

 

Yes,they are ready to roll.

Cobra6 #11 Posted 03 May 2018 - 01:52 PM

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View PostSearch_Warrant, on 03 May 2018 - 11:40 AM, said:

Leo is tier 7 and id guess it plays like that. 1 slug of a paper low pen tank.

 

Well that is bad news because the Leo is an absolute turd of a tank in dire need of a buff to its mobility and the gun handling of the 105.

 

Cobra 6



TORKARDGIANT #12 Posted 03 May 2018 - 01:52 PM

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View Posttank276, on 03 May 2018 - 12:51 PM, said:

 

Yes,they are ready to roll.

 

Great news :-) been waiting for this for years

Long_Range_Sniper #13 Posted 03 May 2018 - 02:04 PM

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First game with one and fully upgraded.

 

1500 damage, and second class.

 

Mobility - Meh

Gun depression - Never used it in the city

Reload - OK

Alpha - Good

Armour - It was top tier, and I bounced a KV-1 sidescraping my tank twice. Still wouldn't recommend brawling !



Search_Warrant #14 Posted 03 May 2018 - 02:04 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 03 May 2018 - 12:52 PM, said:

 

Well that is bad news because the Leo is an absolute turd of a tank in dire need of a buff to its mobility and the gun handling of the 105.

 

Cobra 6

 

Im starting to get the hang of the Bis after 3 games. its a good tank. i like it. but the mobility is pretty bad for such low pen.

tank276 #15 Posted 03 May 2018 - 02:21 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 03 May 2018 - 12:52 PM, said:

 

Well that is bad news because the Leo is an absolute turd of a tank in dire need of a buff to its mobility and the gun handling of the 105.

 

Cobra 6

 

I use the smaller caliber and it performs similar to a comet dude, not bad. Near 2 marks on it, have kept it to have a swedish med.
 

View PostSearch_Warrant, on 03 May 2018 - 01:04 PM, said:

 

Im starting to get the hang of the Bis after 3 games. its a good tank. i like it. but the mobility is pretty bad for such low pen.

 

Feels like a mini super pershing when u r top tier (in a distant way).
 

Balc0ra #16 Posted 03 May 2018 - 02:23 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 03 May 2018 - 01:52 PM, said:

 

Well that is bad news because the Leo is an absolute turd of a tank in dire need of a buff to its mobility and the gun handling of the 105.

 

Cobra 6

 

Leo has mobility for a med that is, and camo. This only has camo. As this is on pair with a medium heavy tbh with regards to mobility. So there I get the bad dispersion vs alpha, camo and mobility for it's tier. If this had good mobility. I would forgive the dispersion.

 

And that's why I love the Swedish Leo. It's the camo, alpha & mobility combo. This only has good alpha for it's tier. And that's it. The Skoda T40 has 220 alpha. But mobility, less dispersion and more pen.



Search_Warrant #17 Posted 03 May 2018 - 02:30 PM

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View Posttank276, on 03 May 2018 - 01:21 PM, said:

 

I use the smaller caliber and it performs similar to a comet dude, not bad. Near 2 marks on it, have kept it to have a swedish med.

 

ewwwww. ill take the 90mm with all around good gun stats (for a 240 alpha tier 6 medium) and being able to trade most same tier heavies is a godsend. especially them near 300 high rolls :B.

 

Just got a 5 kill 1.9k damage game. going up hills in this thing makes me cringe....its SO BAD. if they could fix that and let it reach 40 easier it would be fine.



Cobra6 #18 Posted 03 May 2018 - 03:01 PM

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View Posttank276, on 03 May 2018 - 01:21 PM, said:

 

I use the smaller caliber and it performs similar to a comet dude, not bad. Near 2 marks on it, have kept it to have a swedish med.

 

Not similar at all because you will bounce nothing where, if you use the Comet correctly, you can bounce quite a bit.

Also, the Leo has very low ammo count for no reason.

 

I love the Comet and have great stats on it, the Leo on the other hand not at all.

 

Cobra 6



Search_Warrant #19 Posted 03 May 2018 - 03:02 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 03 May 2018 - 02:01 PM, said:

 

Not similar at all because you will bounce nothing where, if you use the Comet correctly, you can bounce quite a bit.

Also, the Leo has very low ammo count for no reason.

 

I love the Comet and have great stats on it, the Leo on the other hand not at all.

 

Cobra 6

 

I spammed a ton of gold in my Leo. you had to due to the super long aimtime and aids accuracy. simply needed that extra pen.

Darius_B1bis #20 Posted 03 May 2018 - 03:15 PM

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I told that P43 bis needed a buff when I played it into CT. Now I hope that WG staff will take account of these remarks, I completely agree with the opener's post.




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