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Help me with the crew skills for my EVEN 90

EVEN 90 crew skills perks

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CircleOfSorrow #1 Posted 03 May 2018 - 09:08 PM

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I enjoy scouting in my ELC EVEN 90 a lot.  I think I play this vehicle more than any other since I got it.  I just finished LT15 for the T55-A;

 

Spoiler

 

I want to become a better scout.  Part of that process is speccing the crew skills for maximum effectiveness.  The current skills are as follows;

 

 

And the vehicle setup is;

 

 

If anybody can advise me on what skills I should choose for the future and give a brief explanation why I would really appreciate it.


Edited by CircleOfSorrow, 03 May 2018 - 09:28 PM.


tank276 #2 Posted 03 May 2018 - 09:36 PM

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Your crew looks pretty solid already, you must invest more on repairs for all 3 members when you reach next level.

Tracking shots (lucky or not) is the only solution I have found that devastates this vehicle.

 



CircleOfSorrow #3 Posted 03 May 2018 - 09:49 PM

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View Posttank276, on 03 May 2018 - 08:36 PM, said:

Your crew looks pretty solid already, you must invest more on repairs for all 3 members when you reach next level.

Tracking shots (lucky or not) is the only solution I have found that devastates this vehicle.

 

 

Repairs might save me on occasion, but I usually expect to die if I am tracked without a repair kit.  I did expect this as a suggestion though, and will consider it.

 

I was also considering fire fighting, since I equip food instead of an extinguisher, but I seem to be set on fire very rarely.  Also, I want to put recon on the commander for extra viewrange.

 

Argh!



somegras #4 Posted 03 May 2018 - 09:49 PM

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My setup:

 

It sucks that the Commander is also the Radio Operator, so he has to train both VR skills. The Deadeye is just a personal preference thingy of mine, I quite like it. If you want to go full scout, you might want to consider Designated Target instead. I am not sure how effective it is, but it is related to spotting. Do keep in mind that the +2secs spotted only works on targets that are within your VR and while you are aiming at them, directly (there is some margin for error, but I can't remember how much). For the driver, you might want to consider Clutch Braking, since the ELC and the 13 105 have some traverse issues. If you are going for the 13 90 instead (which I can highly recommend, great tank), over the 105, then Clutch Braking is not really that necessary. Lastly, I would recommend training repairs on at least 1 crew member. I don't know exactly how fast the track repair is on the Even 90, but the track repair time goes down considerably on the 13 90. Since it only has 3 crewmembers the effects of Repairs on just one guy enhances the repair times significantly. The reason why you want repairs is just so you never risk getting perma-tracked, and it is just handy in general.

 

Edit: Oh, and regarding Firefighting in your last post; just use the directive. It's cheap, and getting Firefighting on a 3-man crew is one hell of an investment.


Edited by somegras, 03 May 2018 - 09:50 PM.


breeeze #5 Posted 03 May 2018 - 09:50 PM

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Recon/Repairs/Repairs if you ever plan to get the 13 105, if not Smooth Ride may be a better choice.

arthurwellsley #6 Posted 03 May 2018 - 10:00 PM

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View Postsomegras, on 03 May 2018 - 08:49 PM, said:

My setup:

 

It sucks that the Commander is also the Radio Operator, so he has to train both VR skills. The Deadeye is just a personal preference thingy of mine, I quite like it. If you want to go full scout, you might want to consider Designated Target instead. I am not sure how effective it is, but it is related to spotting. Do keep in mind that the +2secs spotted only works on targets that are within your VR and while you are aiming at them, directly (there is some margin for error, but I can't remember how much). For the driver, you might want to consider Clutch Braking, since the ELC and the 13 105 have some traverse issues. If you are going for the 13 90 instead (which I can highly recommend, great tank), over the 105, then Clutch Braking is not really that necessary. Lastly, I would recommend training repairs on at least 1 crew member. I don't know exactly how fast the track repair is on the Even 90, but the track repair time goes down considerably on the 13 90. Since it only has 3 crewmembers the effects of Repairs on just one guy enhances the repair times significantly. The reason why you want repairs is just so you never risk getting perma-tracked, and it is just handy in general.

 

Edit: Oh, and regarding Firefighting in your last post; just use the directive. It's cheap, and getting Firefighting on a 3-man crew is one hell of an investment.

 

With Designated Target I find that it is always a good rule of thumb that if I am looking at an enemy and hit the T key, which brings up the message "assist with enemy X", then Designated will work on it. If I hit T and the message does not come up, then I am not sufficiently looking at the tank. I always try and have my ELC Even 90 in a fold of land as well as behind a bush or two, so if at all possible only the top of the turret is doing the viewing, that way blind shoots at the "usual" bush fly nicely over the top with nil damage.

 

In French lights I go firefighting over repairs because the coffee helps the gun handling (a tiny amount) as well as the view range and camo (marginally).


Edited by arthurwellsley, 03 May 2018 - 10:01 PM.


KillingJoker #7 Posted 03 May 2018 - 10:01 PM

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like any scout, you want to increase your camorating and view range...

so...

 

Coated optics in the tank is demanding... you can then chose either a vertical stabilizer or extra binocs for passive scouting...

 

every crew member should have camo 100%, as well as extended view range in the commander and situational awareness since the commander is also the radio operator

 

everything else is optional... bia would help a bit, but the reload times are slow anyway... so definitly your priority is camorating and view range.



ihateclowns #8 Posted 03 May 2018 - 10:15 PM

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Same , love this tank. I have the same layout on my one 5 crew skills but I have vents, optics and a camo net. So funny putting camo net on elc90, enemy tank can be a stones throw away from me and wont see it lol

breeeze #9 Posted 03 May 2018 - 10:24 PM

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View PostKillingJoker, on 03 May 2018 - 10:01 PM, said:

like any scout, you want to increase your camorating and view range...

so...

 

Coated optics in the tank is demanding... you can then chose either a vertical stabilizer or extra binocs for passive scouting...

 

every crew member should have camo 100%, as well as extended view range in the commander and situational awareness since the commander is also the radio operator

 

everything else is optional... bia would help a bit, but the reload times are slow anyway... so definitly your priority is camorating and view range.

 

 

You didn't bother to look at OP's post for even half a second, impressive.



azakow #10 Posted 04 May 2018 - 05:41 AM

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You are on a pritty good set already.

I use:

Modules: optics ,v-stab, vents

Consumables: large packs and food

For spotting: camo, Sit. Awareness, Recon

For fighting: Snap Shot, Smoth Ride (do not forget to auto aim)

 

Repairs has the least priority on any AMX LT. It is wasting a skill slot.

Fire Fighting has a much higher priority than Repairs.

 

As said by arthur Designated Target is a very cool thing in general and it buys you time for Double Bushing and amining when dealing dmg.

Here my setup:

Spoiler

 

Did you know there is a FR LT section: http://forum.worldof...68-light-tanks/


Edited by azakow, 04 May 2018 - 06:09 AM.


Simeon85 #11 Posted 04 May 2018 - 09:35 AM

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IMO repairs is important on every tank, and you are missing recon for that extra view range. 

 

Plus I always like safe stowage, to avoid those blow ups.

 

I think clutch breaking and off road driving is overkill and not needed, you get most benefit from off road driving. 

 

Also smooth ride and snap shot are not really worth it, both will only knock 0.01 off the dispersion you won't notice the difference, for a whole crew skill that impact is minimal


Edited by Simeon85, 04 May 2018 - 09:36 AM.


azakow #12 Posted 04 May 2018 - 10:34 AM

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View PostSimeon85, on 04 May 2018 - 09:35 AM, said:

IMO repairs is important on every tank, and you are missing recon for that extra view range. 

 

Plus I always like safe stowage, to avoid those blow ups.

 

I think clutch breaking and off road driving is overkill and not needed, you get most benefit from off road driving. 

 

Also smooth ride and snap shot are not really worth it, both will only knock 0.01 off the dispersion you won't notice the difference, for a whole crew skill that impact is minimal

Repairs?!

On a vehilce class that lives only on not to be spotted at all, hence not been shot at.

Please elaborate on the adavantage you gain from repairs on this vehicle.

Please do the same with safe stowage.

Please do the same with the others  ...

 

Do you know what you are talking about at all?

I am asking because it may not be needed below tier 5, but after that an LT needs every single bit of an advantage it can get.



fwhaatpiraat #13 Posted 04 May 2018 - 10:57 AM

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Regarding setup and crew skills you're already (more than) fine. The next step is improving the gameplay itself: early spotting, changing position and lookin for opportunities.

If you need help, drop some replays on (semi) open maps and i can watch them tonight.

Simeon85 #14 Posted 04 May 2018 - 11:12 AM

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View Postazakow, on 04 May 2018 - 10:34 AM, said:

Repairs?!

On a vehilce class that lives only on not to be spotted at all, hence not been shot at.

Please elaborate on the adavantage you gain from repairs on this vehicle.

Please do the same with safe stowage.

Please do the same with the others  ...

 

Do you know what you are talking about at all?

I am asking because it may not be needed below tier 5, but after that an LT needs every single bit of an advantage it can get.

 

How are you getting not spotted on Himmelsdorf, Abbey, Mountain Pass etc. It's an autloading light tank, part of it's role is to circle, harrass and clip tanks, especially slow heavies or turretless TDs, it has very good mobility, keeping that mobility is huge to it's survival and not getting stuck tracked is part of that.

 

Repairs are pretty much vital on every tank IMO, it can make the difference between living and dying, you can't just sit in a bush all game and expect to win games. You also have 900 hit points, those are valuable commodities to be used, especially important for a highly mobile autoloader in end game situations. 

 

It also applies to all the French lights, their burst potential can have a huge impact to the game, because they can nip in with their great mobility, get their clip out and get away, getting perm-a-tracked to death because you have no repairs is plain stupid IMO.

 

Like I said safe stowage avoids ammo rack blow ups, it makes them near impossible against most calibre guns, I don't know about you but I prefer not to get one shot, just my personal preference and I would take that over the minimal impact of clutch breaking or snap shot. 

 

Repairs is way way more valuable than clutch breaking or snap shot, 0.01 on turret traverse is very little, like I said you'll barely feel it and it's actual game impact is minimal, it might help you hit 1 extra shot in a 100, barely even that.

 

Same with clutch breaking, it equates to about 2 deg/s traverse on that tank, again barely noticeable.

 

I have over 60% win rate and nearly 3 marks in the EVEN 90, so yeh I know what I am talking about, I have like over 60% WRs in most of my high tier lights.  Also as others have said if he wants the crew to be useful for the higher tier French lights like the 13-90 or 13-150 both those tanks play more actively and are burst damage specialists, so again repairs is vital.

 



Igor_BL #15 Posted 04 May 2018 - 11:27 AM

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Crew is decent. (personally, i would lose those clutch braking and offroad driving on driver)

recon/repair/repair or smootride instead one repair.

 

probably best option would be to put recon and repair on comander and gunner, and to reset driver skills, include repair instead of one of those two "fishy" ones.

 


While camo is better choice on this tank, repairs are still very improtant. Far more then clutch braking or offroad...

 

p.s. gunner has 2 skills available... you can try deadeye+repairs... deadeye does not provide that big bonus, but i love to have on autoloaders.
just a personal thing, loving to set enemies on fire when i flank them or blow the turret up, once in a while and I assure myself DE helps a lot to that... :D

 

equipment is classic choise for the LTs, you dont need to change it.


Edited by Igor_BL, 04 May 2018 - 11:30 AM.


azakow #16 Posted 04 May 2018 - 11:58 AM

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View PostSimeon85, on 04 May 2018 - 11:12 AM, said:

 

How are you getting not spotted on Himmelsdorf, Abbey, Mountain Pass etc. It's an autloading light tank, part of it's role is to circle, harrass and clip tanks, especially slow heavies or turretless TDs, it has very good mobility, keeping that mobility is huge to it's survival and not getting stuck tracked is part of that.

 

Repairs are pretty much vital on every tank IMO, it can make the difference between living and dying, you can't just sit in a bush all game and expect to win games. You also have 900 hit points, those are valuable commodities to be used, especially important for a highly mobile autoloader in end game situations. 

 

It also applies to all the French lights, their burst potential can have a huge impact to the game, because they can nip in with their great mobility, get their clip out and get away, getting perm-a-tracked to death because you have no repairs is plain stupid IMO.

 

Like I said safe stowage avoids ammo rack blow ups, it makes them near impossible against most calibre guns, I don't know about you but I prefer not to get one shot, just my personal preference and I would take that over the minimal impact of clutch breaking or snap shot. 

 

Repairs is way way more valuable than clutch breaking or snap shot, 0.01 on turret traverse is very little, like I said you'll barely feel it and it's actual game impact is minimal, it might help you hit 1 extra shot in a 100, barely even that.

 

Same with clutch breaking, it equates to about 2 deg/s traverse on that tank, again barely noticeable.

 

I have over 60% win rate and nearly 3 marks in the EVEN 90, so yeh I know what I am talking about, I have like over 60% WRs in most of my high tier lights.  Also as others have said if he wants the crew to be useful for the higher tier French lights like the 13-90 or 13-150 both those tanks play more actively and are burst damage specialists, so again repairs is vital.

 

I do have a very different aproach indeed.

I try not to get hit at all, hence no need for training repairs at all.

Why?

Because, if I get hit and tracked, a repair kit will do the same, is faster and frees a skill slots.

In case I get tracked a second time in that particular situation the problem is at my keyboard only.

The repair skill will not help in such case.

 

Takling about the of mobility, the harrasing, the unloading and importance clutch braking.

Are you sure your statements fit togehter?

I am asking becasue other tanks are balanced by a diffrence of 2 deg/s on travers. Moreover doesn't travers speed have an influence on your vehilces turn circle?

 

Overall your arguments are not very compelling to me.



Simeon85 #17 Posted 04 May 2018 - 12:09 PM

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View Postazakow, on 04 May 2018 - 11:58 AM, said:

I do have a very different aproach indeed.

I try not to get hit at all, hence no need for training repairs at all.

Why?

Because, if I get hit and tracked, a repair kit will do the same, is faster and frees a skill slots.

In case I get tracked a second time in that particular situation the problem is at my keyboard only.

The repair skill will not help in such case.

 

Takling about the of mobility, the harrasing, the unloading and importance clutch braking.

Are you sure your statements fit togehter?

I am asking becasue other tanks are balanced by a diffrence of 2 deg/s on travers. Moreover doesn't travers speed have an influence on your vehilces turn circle?

 

Overall your arguments are not very compelling to me.

 

Repair kits have cool downs and I like to be active. People with crap repairs are very easy to out play IMO, nothing sadder than seeing something perma-tracked to death when it was totally avoidable with a good repair crew. 

 

2 deg/s of traverse for a skill that usually takes thousands and thousands of XP doesn't seem worth it to me, the practical difference in game is minimal. I don't see an ELC EVEN 90 with 2 deg/s more traverse doing much more than one without and if said player is giving up repairs then IMO he'll do consistently worse.

 

Turning circle is also irrelevant because such situations are never textbook, it depends on the space available, the tank you are facing and what they do, a tighter turning circle (even if it has that impact) is something for the garage but won't make much impact in combat,

 

IMO smooth ride, snap shot and clutch breaking just have too little impact for 100% skills, especially if people are having them as 2nd/3rd/4th etc. where they take so much XP to get. They make a very marginal change to 1 attribute, to be honest I think firefighting is more worthwhile than those skills. 

 

Each to their own I suppose, I don't really play my lights as passive scouts very often, I find it very boring. 


Edited by Simeon85, 04 May 2018 - 12:10 PM.


arthurwellsley #18 Posted 04 May 2018 - 01:24 PM

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View PostSimeon85, on 04 May 2018 - 08:35 AM, said:

IMO repairs is important on every tank, and you are missing recon for that extra view range. 

 

Plus I always like safe stowage, to avoid those blow ups.

 

I think clutch breaking and off road driving is overkill and not needed, you get most benefit from off road driving. 

 

Also smooth ride and snap shot are not really worth it, both will only knock 0.01 off the dispersion you won't notice the difference, for a whole crew skill that impact is minimal

 

My understanding is that a Vert. Stab gives a bonus of 3%, and the combination of the perks Smooth Ride and Snap Shoot together is a little over 2% for the same things. Thus you are spending two perks to essentially almost gain a fourth equipment slot.

 

For French Light tanks this seemed more appropriate to me as gun handling for them is an issue.

 

I accept that since the introduction of bonds and the bond directive slot, this has become less of an issue. If you farm enough bonds, then using directives on different tanks in place of perks is appropriate so long as you get enough bonds in during your sessions playing.

 

Also you query Off Road Driving perk. Remember the OP made specific reference to his crew in the ELC Even 90. I know most of us play the premium with a crew out of the AMX 13 105 or similar, but the OP does not. Look at the picture in his first post the crew are for the premium vehicle alone. Although the ELC Even 90 has many virtues, one of it's weaknesses is just how much it slows down when it crosses so much as a puddle. Thus although Off Road Driving might not be so pertinent for an AMX 13 90 or AMX 13 105, it is much more usefull to the OP and the crew he is creating specifically for the ELC Even 90.


Edited by arthurwellsley, 04 May 2018 - 01:25 PM.


SnowRelic #19 Posted 04 May 2018 - 02:13 PM

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View Postazakow, on 04 May 2018 - 11:58 AM, said:

I try not to get hit at all, hence no need for training repairs at all.

 

Takling about the of mobility, the harrasing, the unloading and importance clutch braking.

 

I really don't see why anyone would care about having a little bit extra traverse on a light when you're not spotted. If you're harassing (and getting spotted) it's better to have some hard cover you get behind than to spend time turning around (and probably getting shot at.) Do you have an Even 90 replay exhibiting your preferred playstyle?

 

Training repairs cuts the time to repair modules in half. That's far more noticeable then going from 50 to 52 degrees hull traverse.

 

Despite running with coffee, I'd pick repairs over fire fighting. Simply because a light is far more likely to get tracked than to get set on fire.

 

For pure scouting I'd prioritize camo and vision skills, after that I'd pick skills to enhance survivability. The ELC's bad gun stats are the extremely long clip reload, the low amount of shells in the clip and the slow shell velocity. Skills don't help much there.



Simeon85 #20 Posted 04 May 2018 - 02:21 PM

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View Postarthurwellsley, on 04 May 2018 - 01:24 PM, said:

 

My understanding is that a Vert. Stab gives a bonus of 3%, and the combination of the perks Smooth Ride and Snap Shoot together is a little over 2% for the same things. Thus you are spending two perks to essentially almost gain a fourth equipment slot.

 

For French Light tanks this seemed more appropriate to me as gun handling for them is an issue.

 

I accept that since the introduction of bonds and the bond directive slot, this has become less of an issue. If you farm enough bonds, then using directives on different tanks in place of perks is appropriate so long as you get enough bonds in during your sessions playing.

 

Also you query Off Road Driving perk. Remember the OP made specific reference to his crew in the ELC Even 90. I know most of us play the premium with a crew out of the AMX 13 105 or similar, but the OP does not. Look at the picture in his first post the crew are for the premium vehicle alone. Although the ELC Even 90 has many virtues, one of it's weaknesses is just how much it slows down when it crosses so much as a puddle. Thus although Off Road Driving might not be so pertinent for an AMX 13 90 or AMX 13 105, it is much more usefull to the OP and the crew he is creating specifically for the ELC Even 90.

 

I like off road driving, it was clutch breaking that I thought was a waste.

 

Off road driving helps both your acceleration and traverse on medium and soft terrain, so duel benefits, clutch breaking just gives a small boost to traverse so Off road driving > clutch breaking for me and clutch breaking to me is a skill when you don't have much else to chose and even then I'd go for firefighting so I'd put it down at like 6/7th skill for a driver. 

 

V-stab is a flat 20% reduction to all your dispersions.

 

Snap Shot at 100% is only 7.5% from your turret dispersion, smooth ride is only 4% to moving traverse, not tank traverse either.

 

So for example on the EVEN 90 the dispersion values are 0.18/0.18/0.15, V-stab takes this down to 0.15/0.15/0.12

 

Snap shot and smooth ride only take it down to 0.17/0.18/0.14.

 

An improved v-stab would take it down to 0.14/0.14 /0.12 and the directive would knock it down even further, so considering you have to have two crew skills to 100% to get effectively 0.006 from your dispersion (because it only impacts 2 out of the 3 disperson values) I don;t find this a great trade.

 

If you have nothing else useful then every little helps, but running food or vents (because they will knock aim time and accuracy down) or a directive is going to have more impact on your gun handling than those skills and for a 3rd/4th skill that you had to accumulate probably 200k plus XP to reach it doesn't seem worth it. 






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