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Make guld ammo cost more


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tiranatis #1 Posted 05 May 2018 - 02:03 PM

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It's semes more and more players ar only using guld ammo so plz ries the price 4 times os that us free players have a chance  

Capus #2 Posted 05 May 2018 - 02:05 PM

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View Posttiranatis, on 05 May 2018 - 01:03 PM, said:

It's semes more and more players ar only using guld ammo so plz ries the price 4 times os that us free players have a chance  

 

Uhm all this will do is ensure that f2p players can't fire any gold. ppl with a premium account will still be able to use it though. Also, a game without premium ammo is impossible these days due to all the armor buffs that have been dished out in the last years.

UrQuan #3 Posted 05 May 2018 - 02:05 PM

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So you want it even more pay to win? Open wallet, buy prem ammo? And if you go F2P, you can forget using prem ammo? Unless you are really good?

The recent armored tanks are very tough & feels to they they're balanced around being shot at by premium ammo.

 

PS: In a move by WG to nerf the Dingers, the gold price has been removed form prem ammo & now only costs silver.


Edited by UrQuan, 05 May 2018 - 02:06 PM.


AliceUnchained #4 Posted 05 May 2018 - 02:08 PM

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It seems you're not exactly a native English speaker. Perhaps try a sub-forum closer to your native tongue? And no, I'm not a native either but at least I can form simple coherent sentences both grammatically correct and without spelling mistakes (most browsers these days even come with a spell checker, so there really isn't any excuse). Also, premium ammo is now available for credits only. Still referring to it as 'gold ammo' just shows your utter inability to adapt, advance with the times. Lastly, dozens of threads exist already on this topic, most of which despite being rather non-constructive and pointless themselves, still provide far more value than your illiterate rubbish. Please, kindly just sod off. 

tiranatis #5 Posted 05 May 2018 - 02:10 PM

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View PostAliceUnchained, on 05 May 2018 - 02:08 PM, said:

It seems you're not exactly a native English speaker. Perhaps try a sub-forum closer to your native tongue? And no, I'm not a native either but at least I can form simple coherent sentences both grammatically correct and without spelling mistakes (most browsers these days even come with a spell checker, so there really isn't any excuse). Also, premium ammo is now available for credits only. Still referring to it as 'gold ammo' just shows your utter inability to adapt, advance with the times. Lastly, dozens of threads exist already on this topic, most of which despite being rather non-constructive and pointless themselves, still provide far more value than your illiterate rubbish. Please, kindly just sod off. 

sigh 

 



Strappster #6 Posted 05 May 2018 - 02:25 PM

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If you read the latest patch notes you'll see that a prammo re-balance is on the way. No idea when or what it will mean but feel free to endlessly speculate and complain about how terrible it is anyway - there's a selection of threads already open for that. :great:

Enforcer1975 #7 Posted 05 May 2018 - 02:29 PM

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View Posttiranatis, on 05 May 2018 - 02:03 PM, said:

It's semes more and more players ar only using guld ammo so plz ries the price 4 times os that us free players have a chance  

 

If it wasn't for gold ammo i would be a unicum already....

 

 

I do agree though that they have to adjust the prices proportional to the increase from base pen. 


Edited by Enforcer1975, 05 May 2018 - 02:30 PM.


LordMuffin #8 Posted 05 May 2018 - 02:36 PM

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View Posttiranatis, on 05 May 2018 - 02:03 PM, said:

It's semes more and more players ar only using guld ammo so plz ries the price 4 times os that us free players have a chance  

In current game, premium ammo should be free as a way to make the game more balanced.



HonoredStone #9 Posted 05 May 2018 - 02:39 PM

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Guld. Lol.

tankqull #10 Posted 05 May 2018 - 02:40 PM

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well reduce gold ammos dmg by the difference of pen and armor (in case of non HE gold ammo) they are shot at.

so an obj. 140 shooting gold at a t8 light with 50mm of armor the 300 mm of pen will reduce the 390dmg by 250 leaving them with 140dmg...



Balc0ra #11 Posted 05 May 2018 - 02:44 PM

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View Posttiranatis, on 05 May 2018 - 02:03 PM, said:

It's semes more and more players ar only using guld ammo so plz ries the price 4 times os that us free players have a chance  

 

Then you free players have less chance vs +2 super heavies as you can't afford to press 2 to damage it even. And those with +5 tier 8 premium tanks and 20 million silver would still fire 10 gold rounds on you regardless of how much it costs. If it meant they would come out of it victorious vs your super heavy. So tbh.... it would make it worse I suspect on some tiers, as more can't afford to fire back.

 

And +1 MM won't help then. As tanks like the T32 will get equal tier games more often them. And it suffers with it's 198 pen vs all the 220mm weakspot HT's of late on that tier. That will make f2p players steer of lines like that even more if they can't afford to press 2 now and then.

 

And as shown with the T92 light. The gold ammo cost there vs guns of the same caliber is more or less 4x higher. And still ppl run the tank with 100% HEAT.


Edited by Balc0ra, 05 May 2018 - 02:49 PM.


enu_ #12 Posted 05 May 2018 - 02:46 PM

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View Posttankqull, on 05 May 2018 - 03:40 PM, said:

well reduce gold ammos dmg by the difference of pen and armor (in case of non HE gold ammo) they are shot at.

so an obj. 140 shooting gold at a t8 light with 50mm of armor the 300 mm of pen will reduce the 390dmg by 250 leaving them with 140dmg...

 

​wait what?? who cares what someone shots at t8 light with 50mm armor? everything will pen. 

Edited by enu_, 05 May 2018 - 02:46 PM.


fighting_falcon93 #13 Posted 05 May 2018 - 03:07 PM

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View Posttiranatis, on 05 May 2018 - 02:03 PM, said:

It's semes more and more players ar only using guld ammo so plz ries the price 4 times os that us free players have a chance  

 

:facepalm:

 

You do realise that making it more expensive will just make it even worse? What they need to do is to make it the same price as the standard ammo, so that everyone can afford it, and then rebalance the premium ammo to stop it from being shot against everything.



Enforcer1975 #14 Posted 05 May 2018 - 07:47 PM

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View Postfighting_falcon93, on 05 May 2018 - 03:07 PM, said:

 

:facepalm:

 

You do realise that making it more expensive will just make it even worse? What they need to do is to make it the same price as the standard ammo, so that everyone can afford it, and then rebalance the premium ammo to stop it from being shot against everything.

 

...now i'd like to hear from you how that balance is supposed to be done...

How else do you want to balance premium ammo than by the price? Reduced damage may be the most reasonable but the price still has to be higher than normal shots. What about cases where tanks trade pen for higher damage like on the SU-100Y??



fighting_falcon93 #15 Posted 05 May 2018 - 08:42 PM

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View PostEnforcer1975, on 05 May 2018 - 07:47 PM, said:

...now i'd like to hear from you how that balance is supposed to be done...

How else do you want to balance premium ammo than by the price? Reduced damage may be the most reasonable but the price still has to be higher than normal shots. What about cases where tanks trade pen for higher damage like on the SU-100Y??

 

IMO there shouldn't be any premium ammo at all. They should make all ammo types as standard ammo and they should all cost the same. You can't balance ammo depending on the cost, because the shells performance is an active element in the battle, but its credits cost is not an active element in the battle.

 

The way to balance ammo is to make each ammo type unique and good in different situations. The best approach is to actually look into reality and see how these rounds actually work.

 

A simple example just to give you the general idea:

 

AP

- The standard ammo type, not especially bad or good at anything.

 

APCR

- High velocity round.

- Very good penetration on close distance, but due to light shell weight the penetration drop-off is also high.

- If the shell has enough penetration to pierce the target tank twice, an overpenetration will occur, causing 0% damage.

 

HEAT

- Low velocity round.

- Doesn't lose penetration over distance, so perfect to use against well armored targets over long distance.

- If the shell hits any obstacle in the way or spaced armor (regardless of thickness), it will pre-detonate, causing 0% damage.

 

I don't have any good ideas for a unique HESH implementation yet, so right now I'd say HE vs HESH would be more of a tank balancing aspect than a shell balancing aspect. For instance, a tank that is already very strong in its stats might get HE, while another tank that is weaker in its stats might get HESH as compensation.

 

And ofc the properties I gave to the ammo types here was just an example, there are a lot of other parameters that can be made different to make the ammo types good in specific situations. Examples of other parameters that should be used:

 

- Damage (although I feel they should try to avoid changing this since it will be too much if they do the other parameters well).

- Normalization.

- Overmatch.

- Ricochet angles.

 

I think that the above would be enough to balance all 3 ammo types against each other. As you can see, the cost would be same, and the damage would also be the same, so the only thing that would differ is their levels of penetration and different mechanics. Basically, each time you would load a new shell, you'd have to think, what am I going to shoot against, and which ammo type is optimal for that situation.

 

A few examples of fail situations if you try to go with only 1 type of ammo:

 

- Shooting a lightly armored tank with APCR from close distance. Fail because the shell will overpenetrate.

- Shooting a heavily armored tank with APCR from long distance. Fail because the shell will bounce.

- Shooting a tank with spaced armor with HEAT regardless of distance. Fail because the shell will pre-detonate.

- Shooting a heavily armored tank with AP from close distance. Fail because you could have got better penetration with APCR.

- Shooting a heavily armored tank with AP from long distance. Fail because you could have got better penetration with HEAT.

- Shooting a tank with highly angled/slooped armor with APCR or HEAT. Fail because you could have overmatched it with AP.

 

Etc etc etc. 



soul3ater #16 Posted 05 May 2018 - 08:50 PM

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I used to think that maybe nerfing the gold ammo's damage to something like 70% of normal damage and so on. 

 

but when you have stupid tanks like type and 268v.4 any type of gold nerf argument goes out of the way with out making some major nerfs to tanks with stupidly heavy armour. 

 

I am not saying gold ammo is fine, it's far from fine but WG played it cards very well. now we are in this never ending cycle of high armour tanks=gold is needed more than ever kind of thing going on.



DeBanus #17 Posted 05 May 2018 - 08:59 PM

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View Posttiranatis, on 05 May 2018 - 01:03 PM, said:

It's semes more and more players ar only using guld ammo so plz ries the price 4 times os that us free players have a chance  

 

I totally agree.

 

In other words: The player has to option to shoot ammunition with a higher penetration value, but this will be costy.

It's simply disgusting that a tier 8 tank, shooting full gold ammo during a match, can still end the battle with a decent profit..... Thats just insane...

 

Also an idea is a maximum amount of gold ammunition per battle, lets say 10% of your ammunition, so you have to decide when to use it.



fighting_falcon93 #18 Posted 05 May 2018 - 09:09 PM

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View PostDeBanus, on 05 May 2018 - 08:59 PM, said:

but this will be costy.

 

It's already costly. Waaay to costly. And that's the main problem with premium ammo today. Give rediculous amounts of penetration to those that can afford it, the rest can go and ---- themselves. And guess which players that can afford it? The good players. Does these players actually need more advantages over bad players, isn't their skill advantage already enough?

 

View PostDeBanus, on 05 May 2018 - 08:59 PM, said:

It's simply disgusting that a tier 8 tank, shooting full gold ammo during a match, can still end the battle with a decent profit..... Thats just insane...

 

Except it can't. Or rather, it might be possible for you, but not the remaining 90% of the player base. You need to remember that you are an exceptional player, and you can't expect players to play to your standards.

 

View PostDeBanus, on 05 May 2018 - 08:59 PM, said:

Also an idea is a maximum amount of gold ammunition per battle, lets say 10% of your ammunition, so you have to decide when to use it.

 

That will neither change anything for the better. If you have 10% of your ammo loadout as premium ammo, what tanks are you going to use it against? A Leopard 1 or a Maus? And that's the problem. You will still use premium ammo against targets that you can't pen with standard ammo. Meanwhile, a player that can't afford premium ammo, will still have to shoot standard ammo against that Maus.



DeBanus #19 Posted 05 May 2018 - 09:42 PM

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View Postfighting_falcon93, on 05 May 2018 - 08:09 PM, said:

 

 

 

I like your DJ Pigeon



enu_ #20 Posted 05 May 2018 - 10:56 PM

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View Postfighting_falcon93, on 05 May 2018 - 09:42 PM, said:

 

A few examples of fail situations if you try to go with only 1 type of ammo:

 

- Shooting a lightly armored tank with APCR from close distance. Fail because the shell will overpenetrate.

- Shooting a heavily armored tank with APCR from long distance. Fail because the shell will bounce.

- Shooting a tank with spaced armor with HEAT regardless of distance. Fail because the shell will pre-detonate.

- Shooting a heavily armored tank with AP from close distance. Fail because you could have got better penetration with APCR.

- Shooting a heavily armored tank with AP from long distance. Fail because you could have got better penetration with HEAT.

- Shooting a tank with highly angled/slooped armor with APCR or HEAT. Fail because you could have overmatched it with AP.

 

Etc etc etc. 

that's how we play today, and how ammo mechanics work in game today. only thing we don't have is overpenetration 0 damage shot, but most of the time it really doesn't matter what ammo you shot at lightly armored tank, in wot players don't rely on armor in lightly armored tanks, and have different play style with them.

i for example never had problem (and never cared) who shots what at me when i'm in leo pta or something without armor.


Edited by enu_, 05 May 2018 - 10:58 PM.





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