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Suggestion about the K-91


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TiMeK1ll3r #1 Posted 05 May 2018 - 02:28 PM

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I know there is a topic about suggestions but i feel like it is becoming just a chit chat about whining players, so here i am.

 

I saw the new stats of the K-91, i just want to point out a little suggestion about it because i think that this time the stats need to be revisited.

I m talking about DPM, Armor and DMG.

As it is now the K-91 doesn't look like an improvement from the OBJ. 430 II, but it looks mostly like a downgraded version with less DPM that the old Obj 430. This line was special and different from the other lines because the higher DPM which allowed you to have more flexibility.

Damage is not good either because 320 dmg for a sniper medium tank means that it's on par with the OBJ.140 and the T62 A, which both have higher DPM. Sniping with 320 dmg means that you basically need to constatly keep firing your gun to be able to support your teammates, thus lowering your camo and mobility. That's something that only TDs should do in certain situations.

As before, armor doesn't upgrade from the OBJ. 430 II, it is even worse than expected..the 430 II is well armored compared to other tanks, with a good turret and a nice frontal armor, but we are talking about a tier IX, which means you might meet tier VII and you can't have too much armor or it wouldn't be balanced.

As top tier, instead, you will always meet other tier X with, nowadays, incredibly good guns and really strong armors. Limiting a medium tank mobility by giving it a not good enough armor will result in players not using the tank at its full potential.

I am not good enough to judge the right amout of changes that need to be made about a tank nor its statistics so i leave it as it is and let you think about it.

 

I saw the huge nerf on the OBJ 430 V2, is this line really gonna be a sniping medium tank line with paper armor?

What the hell are they even thinking? This thing is totally ridicolous, noone liked the paper armor of the OBJ 416, but i think everyone appreciated the kinda good armor of the 430 V2, so why do you wanna make a tier X OBJ 416?

Sniping in a medium tank...that's not something a medium tank should do, just rename the line as a TD line or you will see 0 K91 around the battlefield.

A medium tank that can't brawl with any other tank is just garbage, noone would like a tank like that, it will just be another fail from WG


 

tumppi776 #2 Posted 09 May 2018 - 11:58 AM

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Think positive - at least theyre planning on NOT releasing another OP power creep tank.

 

Bad = Good

 

so every old MT doesnt become obsolete



Geno1isme #3 Posted 09 May 2018 - 12:06 PM

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With the current stats the K-91 is simply crap: No mobility, no armor, no alpha, no DPM, no 360 turret. Only pen, gun-handling and viewrange are good, but not that much better than on the T62A or 140.

The 430-II retains it's mobility, but doesn't get the great penetration and shell velocity values, and inherits all the other negative aspects. The gun buffs listed in the leaks just seem great on paper as in practice people don't use the D-54 gun, and the M-63 already has the better DPM and gun-handling.

 

So yeah, so far the revamped line seems to be very underwhelming. Not because sniper-meds are a bad concept in general, but the tanks with restricted turret, no gun-depression and no alpha-advantage aren't suited for that role.

 

Was hoping the K-91 would keep the DPM and mobility values of the old 430, then it might have been a very interesting tank.



arthurwellsley #4 Posted 09 May 2018 - 01:02 PM

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On super test it is presently very very poor. But those stats

might change, and it still has common test, and maybe two patches before live so maybe Autumn 2018?



Balc0ra #5 Posted 09 May 2018 - 01:11 PM

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View PostTiMeK1ll3r, on 09 May 2018 - 10:43 AM, said:

I saw the huge nerf on the OBJ 430 V2, is this line really gonna be a sniping medium tank line with paper armor?

What the hell are they even thinking? This thing is totally ridicolous, noone liked the paper armor of the OBJ 416, but i think everyone appreciated the kinda good armor of the 430 V2, so why do you wanna make a tier X OBJ 416?

 

A: It's subject to change. As in not final.

 

And B: Yes they want the tier 9 and X to be more like the 416, as that's the idea about the line. Less armor, more mobility and more dpm. As in support, not brawler. They have plenty of mediums that do that on the Russian tree as is. Armor is not bad on the 430 II true. But personally I hate the tank due to it. As the rear turret makes the armor less valid on most maps, as you need it to be 100% flat to for both the gun and armor to work in a brawling role. So hills is a big no no vs what other armored mediums can do. And it's far fetched from the fun the 416 gave in a support role. Since 416 is arguably the one tier 8 med most agree on is not inc in the bad tier 8 medium meta. As most tier 8 mediums have been bad tier for tier vs the rest of their lines. If 416 was a sluggish armored tank with bad dpm and camo. I suspect it would not be on that list.



Solstad1069 #6 Posted 09 May 2018 - 01:25 PM

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So i can sell my 416 and forget about this line then? Well ofcourse it can change, but to me it looks like a superunicum tank only.

Geno1isme #7 Posted 09 May 2018 - 01:32 PM

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View Postarthurwellsley, on 09 May 2018 - 02:02 PM, said:

might change, and it still has common test, and maybe two patches before live so maybe Autumn 2018?

 

Sure they can still change, but past has shown that WG rarely changes things in the logical direction. And it's just baffling that they'd even consider testing the tanks with those stats.

 

View PostBalc0ra, on 09 May 2018 - 02:11 PM, said:

Since 416 is arguably the one tier 8 med most agree on is not inc in the bad tier 8 medium meta. As most tier 8 mediums have been bad tier for tier vs the rest of their lines. If 416 was a sluggish armored tank with bad dpm and camo. I suspect it would not be on that list.

 

Thing is that 320 alpha and 330mm HEAT pen are great on a T8 med. At T9 they are already standard, and at T10 rather underwhelming. So the K-91 is basically a 416 with more HP, higher base-pen and very high shell velocity, but way worse mobility, same alpha and DPM and worse matchmaking.

 

Either they have to give the T9+10 larger caliber guns like the 430 and 430U, or some other outstanding feature to make them a real upgrade over the 416.


Edited by Geno1isme, 09 May 2018 - 01:46 PM.


Simeon85 #8 Posted 09 May 2018 - 01:55 PM

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I like the concept of it but they need to work more on it's stats, something similar should be done the Leopard 1.

 

Clearly for a start the K-91's mobility needs improving, you can't have a mobile sniper with 12 hp/ton. If it;s less armoured than the other Russian meds I'd make it much more mobile than them.

 

If they are to be snipers than they need to be exceptional at it, so the higher shell velocity and pen is a good start, but base accuracy should be like 0.25, so you can get it down to like 0.22 and is clearly better than other meds.

 

I'd make it like something like the Leopard 1 and K-91 both have the higher pen than normal meds, higher velocity, very low base accuracy, very low aim times, and very low dispersions especially on the turret. Then have the k-91 as the DPM one with better camo, DPM on par with the other 320 alpha meds and then have the Leopard 1 with lower DPM but buff it's alpha to like 460 or something.

 

Not sure the K-91 needs 420m view range. 



arthurwellsley #9 Posted 09 May 2018 - 02:14 PM

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View PostSimeon85, on 09 May 2018 - 12:55 PM, said:

I like the concept of it but they need to work more on it's stats, something similar should be done the Leopard 1.

 

Clearly for a start the K-91's mobility needs improving, you can't have a mobile sniper with 12 hp/ton. If it;s less armoured than the other Russian meds I'd make it much more mobile than them.

 

If they are to be snipers than they need to be exceptional at it, so the higher shell velocity and pen is a good start, but base accuracy should be like 0.25, so you can get it down to like 0.22 and is clearly better than other meds.

 

I'd make it like something like the Leopard 1 and K-91 both have the higher pen than normal meds, higher velocity, very low base accuracy, very low aim times, and very low dispersions especially on the turret. Then have the k-91 as the DPM one with better camo, DPM on par with the other 320 alpha meds and then have the Leopard 1 with lower DPM but buff it's alpha to like 460 or something.

 

Not sure the K-91 needs 420m view range. 

 

I agree with most of this.

 

As to this comment "Clearly for a start the K-91's mobility needs improving, you can't have a mobile sniper with 12 hp/ton. If it's less armoured than the other Russian meds I'd make it much more mobile than them." The problem is the is that the real K-91 was a design prior to the IS-7 and T-10 and was a 45 ton heavy tank. So although WG have just nerfed the real life armour, they haven't yet knocked off any of the real life weight.

 

Looking at the blueprints of it, it would be one huge ammo rack, but I feel that will not make it into gameplay due to "balance" reasons ie it's Russian.

 



TiMeK1ll3r #10 Posted 10 May 2018 - 03:25 PM

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Personally i really hope that it will not become a sniping medium with low dpm and dmg.

 

As the guy before said it would be decent if it was more mobile than the other mediums, with higher dmg and more than 320 dmg.

When someone snipes you and does 320 dmg, you already know you just need to angle slightly and you will bounce almost automatically (unless premium rounds), and DMG doesn't matter if you bounce every shot.

Even the STRV does more dmg that that, and it have a sniper rifle gun, super good camo and amazing ROF.

 

Ok there are many russian brawlers MT, how about a sniper for once? Seems cool, but this tank isn't suited for this role as it is.

It will be a total fail when it will come out (if not updated)



_SpartanWarrior_ #11 Posted 26 May 2018 - 03:23 PM

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I dont like it.K91 is total trash by those stats...

DPM...Mobility...Armor...WTF?

Big - For WG

Also in gameplay its just a trash


Edited by _SpartanWarrior_, 26 May 2018 - 03:24 PM.


samuelx43a #12 Posted 26 May 2018 - 08:28 PM

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as a bonus note, they still have made no changes to the D-54 gun on the 430 II, in that aspect it has the pre-T-54 gun change mechanics, the stock gun is better than the top gun

TiMeK1ll3r #13 Posted 27 May 2018 - 01:56 AM

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I tried out the K-91 and it's a really really disappointing tank as far as i saw.

The armor isn't even worth mentioning, it just feels like you are in a light tank, but well, you sure know you aren't in a light tank because the power to weight ratio sucks and your acceleration is horrible.

Your mobility in general is horrible, traverse speed is bad, top speed is bad, terrain resistance is bad, acceleration is bad....what's the pro?

Your turret should be the most armored part of the tank, but all the hits i received on the turrets were penetrations (and not all were premium rounds, since we are talking about test server)

And yeahhh, i know what you are going to say, this is a sniping tank...but guys, who want a sniping medium tank? We already have the Leopard 1...what's more to say? The popularity of the Leo says it all, and the fact that it's only enjoyed by a really little part of the community should give a clear message about what we all wanted the K-91 not to be.

 

If you want a sniping tank that moves good, with a good armor, a good gun and an enjoyable gameplay, well, you should just get a swedish TD.

As the name implies, a medium tank is not a tank destroyer, and that's just because medium tanks are not supposed to be played in the back...oh sorry, "the second, or even better the third line" (said someone in a video)...

Medium tanks are supposed to be kinda balanced and all rounders, with good mobility and amor (but not too good) and good guns (but not too good), or else they wouldn't be medium tanks (exception made for the OBJ430 U because reasons i guess)

320 damage in a sniping paper tank, a reload that if fully pimped out can get to under 5 seconds (4.6 seconds i think), who is it gonna scare? the gun is kinda okish but it's gonna scare nobody at tier X unless you are only shooting premium rounds, but then again you can't constantly keep shooting because your camo isn't good enough, and you need to move away from the enemies while not being able to shoot at them from the back of the tank because of the 180° rotatable turret, and because the tank is kinda sluggish you need to move sooner than other tanks (also because you don't have armor to back up your possible courage).

 

Am i really the only one who wanted a worthy successor of the Obj 430 II? Just give some armor to the Obj 416 (and an overall buff to it) since it's one of the worst tier 8 tanks in the game (and don't lie about it because you enjoyed it, you did not really enjoyed playing it, it was really painful to even look at it in the garage)

Since you really don't care about realism in this game, why not just make it like it is in WoT Blitz? The first russian medium autoloader tank (yeah i know in WoTB it's an heavy), just give the Obj 416 and Obj 430 II some good ol' armor and autoloader guns with a nice damage and here you go, you have got a new successfull line!

 

Damn i should work in the marketing division of wargaming, it seems they hired someone that had references or something, because they can't do their job for naught.

 

JUST LISTEN TO YOUR PLAYERS, IT'S NOT THAT HARD TO IMPROVE THE GAME, JUST READ YOUR PLAYERS SUGGESTIONS (in case someone from the staff reads this, which is highly unlikely since they probably don't even care about the forum suggestions at all)



DuncaN_101 #14 Posted 27 May 2018 - 09:57 AM

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Lol... Asif that is going to happen...
WG listening to their players

TiMeK1ll3r #15 Posted 27 May 2018 - 10:35 AM

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View PostDuncaN_101, on 27 May 2018 - 08:57 AM, said:

Lol... Asif that is going to happen...
WG listening to their players

 

LOL i know, but hey, even if it's almost impossible, there might be a miracle coming to save the day ahhahahahah

 

Yeah i know it's not gonna happen, but suggesting changes in this post made me feel good, because after i saw thing thing they call a tank something in me started to burn (like my burnt to ashes soul) and i felt the need to express myself, and it just felt great, so well, even if they will not care (because they only care about the moneys and not the players) i will still feel great for taking this rock off my chest.

 

Improvements, improvements



Solstad1069 #16 Posted 27 May 2018 - 10:41 AM

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This tank should have light tank mobility, the ability to run away.

TiMeK1ll3r #17 Posted 27 May 2018 - 11:01 AM

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View PostSolstad1069, on 27 May 2018 - 09:41 AM, said:

This tank should have light tank mobility, the ability to run away.

 

Seeing it as it is now in the Test, what i now suggest is to give it wayyyyy better mobility and a clip, like 3-4 shots.

Like this it will be something new we will all appreciate (at least more than the current one) and it will bring a new gameplay to the current russian medium tanks



FatigueGalaxy #18 Posted 27 May 2018 - 11:02 AM

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View PostDuncaN_101, on 27 May 2018 - 09:57 AM, said:

Lol... Asif that is going to happen...
WG listening to their players

 

LOL, currently all the biggest problems are there because WG listened to their players. We wanted heavies with meaningful armour - we got it, we wanted better, less random MM - we got it, we wanted more powerful premiums - we got it. I almost want to say that the game was better when SerB was doing whatever he wanted with it, but I still remember that WoT always had some glaring issues. WoT doesn't become worse - it just improves in some areas while becoming crap in others.

TiMeK1ll3r #19 Posted 27 May 2018 - 07:07 PM

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As we all are now aware of the fact that the game is trying to improve for the best, we have the need to show our ability to UP this post now to make it a real serious topic, since THIS is the time to make a difference.

 

THEY CAN'T IGNORE US guys, we need numbers to be able to make changes in this game, they are not going to even read a topic with less than 2-3 pages at least because it kinda shows no interest.

Our only hope to improve the K-91 before they release it as a potato sniping medium is now, if they don't change it now that they have the chance they will understand their complete failure only after they have released it as it is.

 

I had my hopes up for a worthy successor of the Obj. 430 II (like i think most of the players), because noone was witing for a worthy successor of the Obj. 416, we just hate that tank because compared to the other same tier tanks it's ridicolous and you could do "good" 1 time out of 15, which was extremely disappointing.

 

They say the analize the most played tanks and the results they do in battle to tweak them and make them enjoyable again, but from what it looks like they really don't, because i don't remember ever seeing many Obj. 416 around, because most of the people just skipped it with free exp or abandoned it after seeing what a crap it is.

 

I personally played it to the Obj 430 II but that's just because i am a masochist i guess, since i play bad tanks on purpose



Browarszky #20 Posted 27 May 2018 - 08:31 PM

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Depends who you mean by 'us'. From the entire game population, I'd wager that the forumites are the stingiest of the whole bunch so...

 

... wouldn't get my hopes up....


Edited by Browarszky, 27 May 2018 - 08:32 PM.





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