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Why I and my friends are quitting WOT - food for thought


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fritzroy15 #1 Posted 08 May 2018 - 12:41 AM

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 So it's been about 13k games and both me and a couple of the people I played this regularly are in that weird spot where you know you've uninstalled for the last time. Sure, wargaming makes games that I believe most people will uninstall / reinstall a bunch of times, but now it feels different, like when you break up with someone out a feeling of hopelessness and boredom in that very flat, emotionless way. Here's the stuff that broke it for us, who knows, maybe someone takes note of it ( seriously doubt it, but I'm kinda doing this to give myself some closure ).

Reason 1: Tier 10

 - i believe a lot of people fight the grind dreaming of getting to T10 and forever raining down the feeling of hopelessness that often times accompany playing as bottom / mid tier. Getting there just to be shat on because you don't have the 'right' object is really disheartening in full tier 10 games ( which are most of them ).
- what's the difference between tier 5 and tier 10? about 4600 credits / shot. That's it, that's the endgame of WoT. At least if they had some stuff that makes it all worth it, some perks or different maps or I dunno, anything to make you feel like you accomplished something that would certainly help rationalize it internally when the 268 4 gold spam platoon shits on your efforts for the past couple of months.

 

Reason 2: premium amo

- nothing to add

 

Reason 3: the pace

- so I feel like WoT is designed to be fast-paced action... but then most tanks have no real armor so you have to play super defensively for the first 5 minutes. Maybe in something like warthunder you can immerse yourself in the game and feel like you're driving a real tank and well, that's just how tank warfare is like. But in WoT it doesn't work ( at least for me ). I find myself fighting the urge to alt-tab out and do something else for the first minutes of the game.

- play a heavy tank then! Well, check #2 for that and also, a lot of times that ironically means that you'll be doing nothing even more. You know what I mean, maybe your teams just miss each other by going down opposite lanes, maybe you get pinned down by that rapid firing ligt/medium that pens you from the front, maybe you're bottom tier and then the most you can do is provide a nice wreck for your top tier tanks to hide their UFP/LFP.

 

Reason 4: the weird state of balance

- I know most people consider the 268 v4 unbalanced but that to me feels more like how wot should be ( durable little mini-tanks trying to snipe their weakspots ... and no, I don't even have that line started but I wish I would have ).

- the way it is, most tanks are paper, but then you get stuff like the japanese lines which crapon paper tanks... like make up your mind WG!

 

Reason 5: the grind

- I'm 30yo so I understand a lot about the world around me, including the need to make money. Now that being said, getting a 130mm turret for 60k until you can unlock the big gun ( I'm looking at you is-m ) just feels like a rip-off to me. Getting the stock tank to be stronger and stronger should feel like an accomplishment, not like a tedious grind. There are numerous similar examples so I don't think I need to elaborate further.

 

All in all, it's been a mixed bag. Certainly got some fun out of it, and considering the amount of hours played, I don't regret the roughly 150euros I put into it, just dissapointed because I think I see the potential for this to be so much more than what it is but hey, best of luck to you who can still enjoy it despite it being so scummy at times.
 



K_A #2 Posted 08 May 2018 - 03:39 AM

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250swb #3 Posted 08 May 2018 - 09:03 AM

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View Postfritzroy15, on 07 May 2018 - 11:41 PM, said:

- what's the difference between tier 5 and tier 10? about 4600 credits / shot. That's it, that's the endgame of WoT. 

 

 

You complain of paper tanks, but it seems to me there is a link to what you said above. The difference between tier 5 and tier 10 isn't simply 4600 credits per shot, it is roughly a 25% increase in skill needed for each tier you go up. So if you've arrived at tier 10 and think you are simply spending more credits I can see why you think the tanks are paper, you forgot to increase your skill along the way.

 

Enjoy whatever game you dump yourself on next, but the 150 Euro you've spent on WOT gets you unlimited gameplay precisely because you never end the game, you can only have personal goals to get better and become more skilled (although some do carry on just because they like the bangs). Any other game will take your 150 Euro and when you reach the top level it's over, nothing left to achieve, and then buy another.


Edited by 250swb, 08 May 2018 - 09:04 AM.


fritzroy15 #4 Posted 08 May 2018 - 12:17 PM

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View Post250swb, on 08 May 2018 - 09:03 AM, said:

 

You complain of paper tanks, but it seems to me there is a link to what you said above. The difference between tier 5 and tier 10 isn't simply 4600 credits per shot, it is roughly a 25% increase in skill needed for each tier you go up.

 

Humor me, where did you get the 25% increase in skill cap number? Is that mentioned somewhere or did you just make that up based on your personal experience  ( legit question ). I'm asking because my personal experience didn't reflect this at all. Here's some examples I found to be just as relevant at both t5 and t10:

- consistent lemming trains

- people failing to come back and defend the base

- base camping

- gold spam

- suicide by enemy team

- *going to beach on overlord*

- failing to even try and spot *classic* points on maps ( 1 line in prokorovka for example )

Any one of these over a long period of time is enough to make me salty but what I tend to get is a combination of them each game no matter if I'm playing mid or high tiers. 5x25% = 125% by your logic so roughly playing at t10 should involve twice as much skill as playing tier5. With all of the above mentioned, I just don't see how that's the case.



SiliconSidewinder #5 Posted 08 May 2018 - 12:33 PM

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250swb #6 Posted 08 May 2018 - 12:54 PM

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View Postfritzroy15, on 08 May 2018 - 11:17 AM, said:

 

Humor me, where did you get the 25% increase in skill cap number? Is that mentioned somewhere or did you just make that up based on your personal experience  ( legit question ). I'm asking because my personal experience didn't reflect this at all. Here's some examples I found to be just as relevant at both t5 and t10:

 

 

It's hard for anybody with as little skill as me to put a figure on it, but unicum streamer Quickybaby uses the 25% figure, and he should know, love him or loath him he does put a lot of thought and calculations into analysing the game. Coincidentally during his tech tree showcase of the BatChat last Sunday he explains it.

 

And from my experience when players complain about the MM of the game or RNG etc. the real question is more often than not about inexperience when rushing up the tiers. The general forum advice is 'do not rush the tiers', and it's for the very reason that free XP and buying Premium tanks races ahead of a players skill level. Your list of points with the similarities from tier five to tier ten is valid, but I guess all that means is that too many players have rushed up the tiers, and you happen to be one of them. All you've really done is make a list of what other players do wrong, and that is nothing to do with your own aptitude. But there's no big problem with less skillful players having a go at tier ten, it gives the better players an easier time. The problem arises when those players don't recognise their own skill cap and start whining about the game and everybody else instead of looking in the mirror.


Edited by 250swb, 08 May 2018 - 01:02 PM.


fritzroy15 #7 Posted 08 May 2018 - 01:12 PM

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View Post250swb, on 08 May 2018 - 12:54 PM, said:

 

It but I guess all that means is that too many players have rushed up the tiers, and you happen to be one of them.

 

I don't even get where you extrapolated that from. One of my best W/R was the 5A ( until I decided to massacre it by doing the bounce 3k dmg x10 for the Italian challenge marathon when I dropped it from 53ish % to 47%. Not shooting the people shooting you tends to do that ) But how is that even relevant to anything being discussed here? I wasn't complaining about either matchmaking or rng.  My gripe with t10 is that it's basically the same thing as t5 only worse because you add to the list I mentioned above the fact that now people are even more campy because they all know that first one to make a move usually dies, and that's really bad in my opinion when getting a T10 is the goal for so many players.



250swb #8 Posted 08 May 2018 - 03:22 PM

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View Postfritzroy15, on 08 May 2018 - 12:12 PM, said:

 

I don't even get where you extrapolated that from. 

 

Extrapolated from your WR, 49%, you are only just average. But that isn't important, neither is cherry picking one tank you are a god with, despite the fine excuse for the stats looking below average. The important thing is you are not contributing to winning as much as you think you do, you are too willing to blame other players for failure and probably don't realise you are one of the players they complain about. 



fritzroy15 #9 Posted 08 May 2018 - 03:52 PM

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Would my arguments about the state of the game ( not about winning, whining, losing, rng, stats, spgs) have weighted more  if instead of 49.97 I had a 0.04% more and was 50.01%?

Gremlin182 #10 Posted 08 May 2018 - 03:55 PM

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View Postfritzroy15, on 08 May 2018 - 12:41 AM, said:

 So it's been about 13k games and both me and a couple of the people I played this regularly are in that weird spot where you know you've uninstalled for the last time. Sure, wargaming makes games that I believe most people will uninstall / reinstall a bunch of times, but now it feels different, like when you break up with someone out a feeling of hopelessness and boredom in that very flat, emotionless way. Here's the stuff that broke it for us, who knows, maybe someone takes note of it ( seriously doubt it, but I'm kinda doing this to give myself some closure ).

Reason 1: Tier 10

 - i believe a lot of people fight the grind dreaming of getting to T10 and forever raining down the feeling of hopelessness that often times accompany playing as bottom / mid tier. Getting there just to be shat on because you don't have the 'right' object is really disheartening in full tier 10 games ( which are most of them ).

 

Reason 2: premium amo

- nothing to add

 

Reason 3: the pace

- so I feel like WoT is designed to be fast-paced action... but then most tanks have no real armor so you have to play super defensively for the first 5 minutes. Maybe in something like warthunder you can immerse yourself in the game and feel like you're driving a real tank and well, that's just how tank

 

Reason 4: the weird state of balance

- I know most people consider the 268 v4 unbalanced but that to me feels more like how wot should be ( durable little mini-tanks trying to snipe their weakspots ... and no, I don't even have that line started but I wish I would have ).

- the way it is, most tanks are paper, but then you get stuff like the japanese lines which crapon paper tanks... like make up your mind WG!

 

Reason 5: the grind

- I'm 30yo so I understand a lot about the world around me, including the need to make money. Now that being said, getting a 130mm turret for 60k until you can unlock the big gun ( I'm looking at you is-m ) just feels like a rip-off to me. Getting the stock tank to be stronger and stronger should feel like an accomplishment, not like a tedious grind. There are numerous similar examples so I don't think I need to elaborate further.

 

All in all, it's been a mixed bag. Certainly got some fun out of it, and considering the amount of hours played, I don't regret the roughly 150euros I put into it, just dissapointed because I think I see the potential for this to be so much more than what it is but hey, best of luck to you who can still enjoy it despite it being so scummy at times.
 

 

I take your points and there are some good ones, for years I really had no desire to get to tier 10 lower tier games were more fun.

What really is the point of grinding to tier 9 paying out maybe 3.5 million credits and begin the process of losing more credits because of high running costs.

Then push even further to tier 10, pay double that and lose even more credits.

Sure I get 2k hit points and have a gun that with 300 pen does 600 damage but so what all the other tanks have that too.

 

As for which tier 10 to grind for that's is a problem, you can use the test servers like I do, trouble is by the time you get there it may have been nerfed another tier 10 could have been buffed or an entirely new tier 10 supertank has appeared.

Another reason for not going anywhere near high tiers.

 

Premium ammo yep tend to agree, I do want every type of tank ammo used in real life to be in the game and I do not mind some shells costing a great deal more than others.

To some extent this comes down to driving the right tank, there is an excellent reason why superheavy tanks did not survive to the modern day.

Shell penetration was always going to win out over thick armour.

So sloped and spaced armour rules here and as long as the ammo has properly calculated strengths and weaknesses its fine.

Its not perfect yet and needs some work, they have promised to do just that some time after the removal of the gold for premium.

Logic probably if you paid money we cannot nerf it but if you paid just credits then tough we can nerf it.

 

Pace, I am concentrating on light tanks and mobile tanks at the moment so pace if fine in that area.

 

Balance, really don't know what they are doing here though I think they are stuck in a spiral of better and better tanks.

The thought being to sell a new premium or get players to continue grinding new tanks of all kinds must either be better than what is already in the game or have something unique about them.

Trouble is you cannot continue doing that indefinitely.

 

The grind yep it gets bad I avoid it by not grinding yes it is that simple, setting yourself a goal of getting to tier 10 in say a couple of months of even shorter time is a self imposed grind.

Just playing the game and after 3 months six months a year realising hey I'm only 10k off that tank I will "grind for it now"

 

Hope you find a game that works for you



250swb #11 Posted 08 May 2018 - 05:33 PM

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View Postfritzroy15, on 08 May 2018 - 02:52 PM, said:

Would my arguments about the state of the game ( not about winning, whining, losing, rng, stats, spgs) have weighted more  if instead of 49.97 I had a 0.04% more and was 50.01%?

 

Not really, if your instinct is to blame the game and other players, the instinct of other players who have come up against a skill cap is to ask 'what can I do to improve the situation?'. I wouldn't say you can't change human nature, but you've quit anyway.

K_A #12 Posted 08 May 2018 - 05:43 PM

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View Postfritzroy15, on 08 May 2018 - 02:52 PM, said:

Would my arguments about the state of the game ( not about winning, whining, losing, rng, stats, spgs) have weighted more  if instead of 49.97 I had a 0.04% more and was 50.01%?

 

It wouldn't change a thing. What would change things is if your winrate was say significantly higher, say somewhere around 58, 60, or even higher, then you'd be good enough to know whenever you yourself make a mistake or a misplay that costs the win so you wouldn't be here complaining about anything, you'd be out there actually learning from your past mistakes and getting even better by each battle you play.



fritzroy15 #13 Posted 08 May 2018 - 10:03 PM

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View PostK_A, on 08 May 2018 - 05:43 PM, said:

 

It wouldn't change a thing. What would change things is if your winrate was say significantly higher, say somewhere around 58, 60, or even higher, then you'd be good enough to know whenever you yourself make a mistake or a misplay that costs the win so you wouldn't be here complaining about anything, you'd be out there actually learning from your past mistakes and getting even better by each battle you play.

 

You do realize that nothing I mentioned in my post had anything to do with complaints about winning/losing, right? Your english seems good enough judging by your response. But I guess the generic 'git gud'' knee-jerk reaction was to be expected.

Homer_J #14 Posted 08 May 2018 - 11:13 PM

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View PostK_A, on 08 May 2018 - 03:39 AM, said:

obligatory 14884

 

obligatory 14893

 

Good going for someone who had uninstalled for the last time.



250swb #15 Posted 09 May 2018 - 08:36 AM

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View Postfritzroy15, on 08 May 2018 - 09:03 PM, said:

 

You do realize that nothing I mentioned in my post had anything to do with complaints about winning/losing, right? Your english seems good enough judging by your response. But I guess the generic 'git gud'' knee-jerk reaction was to be expected.

 

You decided on some 'game breaking' points as a reason to quit the game, and they were all about other team players and what the nasty enemy team were doing to you. These points are valid and annoying, but they are the same for everybody, and yes we know some players red line camp, we know some of the enemy shoot premium ammo at us. But the simple fact is that the more you can influence the win the less important the red line camper on your team is (and sometimes it turns around and the red line camper saves the day). But winning invalidates every single point you make in your complaint, even down to grinding for the next turret because you earn the credits quicker if you win more battles than you lose.

Edited by 250swb, 09 May 2018 - 08:37 AM.


Graeme0 #16 Posted 12 May 2018 - 02:11 PM

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You post that you are leaving but your game count keeps rising, and your account is not deleted

 

Stop whining

 

 



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fritzroy15 #18 Posted 14 May 2018 - 11:43 AM

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To all those knee-jerking their way through this thread, I have it installed on my work office PC and use it as a time-sink during work-hours when I'm waiting for various builds to complete and/or boring meetings to end. It's gone of my gaming machine, will not renew any premium subscription, have no interest in "stets" or unlocking lines anymore, it's basically a glorified solitaire at this point.

 

So *technically* I'm still playng yes, which is more than can be said about most people quitting the game: http://wot-news.com/...rver/eu/norm/en If having a mostly AFK because of work TD on your team counts as an active player to you, then great! You won the debate and the internet :)



Hardass #19 Posted 14 May 2018 - 12:11 PM

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Dude i think you account has been hacked Since you left on the 7th of may someone is still playing your account on the 11th may oh wait my bad your still here aren't you Silly me.

fritzroy15 #20 Posted 14 May 2018 - 12:13 PM

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View PostHardass, on 14 May 2018 - 12:11 PM, said:

Dude i think you account has been hacked Since you left on the 7th of may someone is still playing your account on the 11th may oh wait my bad your still here aren't you Silly me.

 

So witty. You must be a riot at parties.




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