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Turettles heavy TDs no longer useful?


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Rozbrus #1 Posted 08 May 2018 - 01:33 PM

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Hello, I got back to the game after 5 years to check the new 1.0 update. And among other changes, it seems my JT and ISU-152 are borderline useless. In last battle on Ensk I barely managed to press W before my JT was spotted and permakiled by those scifi very fast tanks with scifi very big guns. They can not see anything and their camo is useless. Not that it was good before, but I have never been permaspotted in the first 30s of a match.

And then there are those new maps specificaly designed against any TD play (Overlord...). The only TD map now is Province which is then broken in everything else... I have already sold the JT and I am thinking of doing the same with the ISU. But then why to stay in the game when these vehicles were my favorite. Yes, I can still play Stug or T-40 to some limit, but that is not the solution. Are there some plans for a change? If not, I am out again.



Balc0ra #2 Posted 08 May 2018 - 01:41 PM

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Ensk? It was more or less like that when you left 5 years ago. As then spawn was at the railway, and meds and lights with optics spotted 15 guns by pressing W for a few seconds. It's why you don't cross it early now. As lights are more mobile and can get that lane spotted asap.

 

And my T95 is still effective on Overlord, or even my JP II. Most TD's play it by sitting at the back waiting for damage. And that don't work on most maps anyway. I tend to support the 0 line push in my TD's and move up when they do. 

 

And plans for what kind of a change? To make it better for TD's? Nope, don't count on it. They lost lots of players here a while back due to maps favoring camping TD's. That meta has come and gone. And turretless TD's have been out of style for years. They are still not 100% useless. But you need to move with the team to be effective now, waiting at TD spots it not ideal unless your team is losing the lane you camp on.



ThinGun #3 Posted 08 May 2018 - 01:43 PM

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I think this may be a case of a bad workman blaming his tools.  My Russian TDs perfrom very well.

tank276 #4 Posted 08 May 2018 - 01:58 PM

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View PostRozbrus, on 08 May 2018 - 12:33 PM, said:

Hello, I got back to the game after 5 years to check the new 1.0 update. And among other changes, it seems my JT and ISU-152 are borderline useless.

Dude I went for vacation for 8 days last summer and when I returned to play a game, I couldnt hit *edited*.

After 5 years break, you will need some time to remember your in game skills.

The only TD map now is Province

No it is not. Malinovka, Murovanka, Prokhorovka, Redshire, Mannerheim Line to name just a few are pretty cool for a turretless TD 

I have already sold the JT

If you are referring to the t9 Jagtiger, it was more of a brawling TD than a sniping one even back when you played

and I am thinking of doing the same with the ISU

The ISU lost the BL 10, it didnt lose all of its effiicency

But then why to stay in the game when these vehicles were my favorite.

The game is supposed to be dynamic, why not try some heavies or mediums?

If not, I am out again.

........................

 



Rozbrus #5 Posted 08 May 2018 - 02:05 PM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 08 May 2018 - 01:41 PM, said:

Ensk? It was more or less like that when you left 5 years ago. As then spawn was at the railway, and meds and lights with optics spotted 15 guns by pressing W for a few seconds. It's why you don't cross it early now. As lights are more mobile and can get that lane spotted asap.

 

And my T95 is still effective on Overlord, or even my JP II. Most TD's play it by sitting at the back waiting for damage. And that don't work on most maps anyway. I tend to support the 0 line push in my TD's and move up when they do. 

 

And plans for what kind of a change? To make it better for TD's? Nope, don't count on it. They lost lots of players here a while back due to maps favoring camping TD's. That meta has come and gone. And turretless TD's have been out of style for years. They are still not 100% useless. But you need to move with the team to be effective now, waiting at TD spots it not ideal unless your team is losing the lane you camp on.

 

Yes, but five years ago, there were not many, if any, fast tanks with tier 9 or 10 guns, were there? Nice, move with the team. And how am I supposed to do it in Paris? Himmelsdorf? Or even that stupid Overlord? I am slow, bulky and without armor. The moment I am spotted I am dead. Yes, you in your incredibly armored T-95 may survive, but JT and ISU do not have any armor. At all.

15JG52Brauer #6 Posted 08 May 2018 - 02:06 PM

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Bestest turretless TD/Medium/HT in the game says hello

Rozbrus #7 Posted 08 May 2018 - 02:10 PM

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View PostThinGun, on 08 May 2018 - 01:43 PM, said:

I think this may be a case of a bad workman blaming his tools.  My Russian TDs perfrom very well.

 

Yet you do not have any high tier turetless TD, Russian or otherwise. Well you have a Tiger 88 with 4 battles and a preffered MM. As I said, I can do fine it low tier ones.

Dava_117 #8 Posted 08 May 2018 - 02:13 PM

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View PostRozbrus, on 08 May 2018 - 02:05 PM, said:

 

Yes, but five years ago, there were not many, if any, fast tanks with tier 9 or 10 guns, were there? Nice, move with the team. And how am I supposed to do it in Paris? Himmelsdorf? Or even that stupid Overlord? I am slow, bulky and without armor. The moment I am spotted I am dead. Yes, you in your incredibly armored T-95 may survive, but JT and ISU do not have any armor. At all.

 

As assault gun, ISU is still quite good. You poke when enemy are reloading and hammer them with 750 alpha. Sure, the removal of BL-10 reduced the effectiveness of the tank for no reason, but you can keep enemy scared just with your presence on the first line. 704 is even better with 320+ effective mantlet, better gun arc, mobility and, of course, the mighty BL-10.

Simeon85 #9 Posted 08 May 2018 - 02:14 PM

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Ensk has always been like that and if you are getting that easily spotted then you are doing it wrong and of all the maps you complain about Overlord? 

 

Think you have issues you need to overcome in your play, it's not the tank's fault. 



Condono #10 Posted 08 May 2018 - 02:15 PM

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ISU has different uses now. It is excellent japanese heavy deterrent, fire HE at them with your upgraded gun and you can see them flee in fear.Tier 9, 10 jap heavies don't really expect to take damage... but if they do... they flee. 

Rozbrus #11 Posted 08 May 2018 - 02:27 PM

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View Posttank276, on 08 May 2018 - 01:58 PM, said:

 

 

Yeah, I sold my Comet and bought a Sherman III and put theat 105mm derp gun on it. That is fun :-) I also have heavies. M103 and IS-7 from back then and now I bought E-75. But somehow I can not damage anything with them while everyone shoots me like I have no armor. Strange thing is that I do not have such a problem in Churchill III or BDR.

Edited by Rozbrus, 08 May 2018 - 02:29 PM.


tank276 #12 Posted 08 May 2018 - 02:34 PM

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View PostRozbrus, on 08 May 2018 - 01:27 PM, said:

 

Yeah, I sold my Comet and bought a Sherman III and put theat 105mm derp gun on it. That is fun :-) I also have heavies. M103 and IS-7 from back then and now I bought E-75. But somehow I can not damage anything with them while everyone shoots me like I have no armor. Strange thing is that I do not have such a problem in Churchill III or BDR.

 

Dude, come on, You play the IS7 and everyone pens you like you have no armour.

IS7 is not the t10 heavy king any more, but it still is pretty solid, especially on the armour value.



Lord_Edge #13 Posted 08 May 2018 - 02:54 PM

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View PostRozbrus, on 08 May 2018 - 01:33 PM, said:

Hello, I got back to the game after 5 years to check the new 1.0 update. And among other changes, it seems my JT and ISU-152 are borderline useless.

Dunno if you've noticed but the ISU was nerfed a few months back, they removed it's historical gun and gave it a fictional replacement with less pen.  Borderline useless is putting it kindly.



Simeon85 #14 Posted 08 May 2018 - 02:58 PM

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Yeh 750 alpha and 260 pen on tier 8 'borderline useless'.:facepalm:

 

You know what is actually useless? 

 

Most players in this game. 



NoobySkooby #15 Posted 08 May 2018 - 03:08 PM

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View Post15JG52Brauer, on 08 May 2018 - 02:06 PM, said:

Bestest turretless TD/Medium/HT in the game says hello

 

Well he made some good points in tha video I wonder if WG might actually listen now it is a shame that I enjoy the game and that it appears the future is apprentice in danger, even though I am nowhere near tier 10.

Rozbrus #16 Posted 08 May 2018 - 04:47 PM

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View PostSimeon85, on 08 May 2018 - 02:58 PM, said:

Yeh 750 alpha and 260 pen on tier 8 'borderline useless'.:facepalm:

 

You know what is actually useless? 

 

Most players in this game. 

 

I have always loved this forum. People on fake accounts commenting something they have no idea about. If these tanks are so great, why do not I see a single one in a battle? And if I, by some accident, do, they die horribly firing no more than two shots.

If these TDs (JT, ISU-152, Ferdinand...) are so great why are they in lower part of any statistic I could find?

 

View PostNoobySkooby, on 08 May 2018 - 03:08 PM, said:

 

Well he made some good points in tha video I wonder if WG might actually listen now it is a shame that I enjoy the game and that it appears the future is apprentice in danger, even though I am nowhere near tier 10.

 

Nice video. So basicaly turetless TDs are now more assault guns. But with the same stats they always had... Would like to see someone to try to support a team in a JT or ISU-152...
 

Edited by NickMustaine, 09 May 2018 - 03:31 PM.


Strappster #17 Posted 08 May 2018 - 05:07 PM

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View PostRozbrus, on 08 May 2018 - 03:49 PM, said:

Nice video. So basicaly turetless TDs are now more assault guns.

 

I've always put casemate TDs into one of two categories - snipers like the Marder-Nashorn-Grille 15 line and assault like the ones with armour. Thick armour, support the heavies, thinner armour and some mobility, support the mediums.

 

I don't claim to be an expert at either style but I'm certainly not going to sit at the back in something like a JT when I could be up-front delivering big slaps to their heavies and taking some pressure off mine. The JT's got good armour and a hell of a hp-pool for a TD and hp is just another resource that's available to be spent when needed.



Enforcer1975 #18 Posted 08 May 2018 - 05:08 PM

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Impossible since the game has more corridors than ever. 

gunslingerXXX #19 Posted 08 May 2018 - 05:09 PM

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Only read the title... but obj 268 v4???

Dava_117 #20 Posted 08 May 2018 - 05:10 PM

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View PostRozbrus, on 08 May 2018 - 04:49 PM, said:

 

Nice video. So basicaly turetless TDs are now more assault guns. But with the same stats they always had... Would like to see someone to try to support a team in a JT or ISU-152...

 

For ISU-152, you got great alpha, still have workable pen (even if I miss BL-10 times) sothis is what you base your game on. Be on the front line, just behind HTs. They take the beating, you hammer the enemy. Just being in proximity spot behind a cover may induce enemy tanks to be more passive. Also you can out trade almost every tank on your tier and most HT on tier 9 too. 




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