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An example of where WG don't play their own game.


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Simeon85 #1 Posted 13 May 2018 - 09:52 AM

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Westfield, the heavy brawling ridges, the spot about C3 ish, where the the heavies from the west team can easily sit hull down and peak with just their turrets so shoot the other sides heavies easily because on their side the gradient is gentle.

 

But the east spawns heavies, their side of the ridge,  if they want to peak from their side in that spot, even -10 gun depression tanks have to expose pretty much their whole tank to peak over because the gradient is steeper.

 

This obviously cause an imbalance in a key area of the map, it is common to see the west spawn win the heavy corner more often than not, especially if they have a good hull down heavy.

 

But you don't notice these unblanced areas that have an impact on the game, unless you actually play the game. 



Shaade_Silentpaw #2 Posted 13 May 2018 - 10:03 AM

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I don't think they've ever actually played a game with 3 arty on each team either.

Long_Range_Sniper #3 Posted 13 May 2018 - 10:14 AM

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View PostSimeon85, on 13 May 2018 - 08:52 AM, said:

But you don't notice these unblanced areas that have an impact on the game, unless you actually play the game. 

 

Fjords.

 

Enough said.



Ubervold #4 Posted 13 May 2018 - 10:23 AM

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View PostLong_Range_Sniper, on 13 May 2018 - 10:14 AM, said:

 

Fjords.

 

Enough said.

 

This...

ripfactory #5 Posted 13 May 2018 - 10:40 AM

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3 arties per side

HundeWurst #6 Posted 13 May 2018 - 10:54 AM

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That took you an awefull long time to figure out :)

 

But at last you are there! Now enjoy the new knowledge, even though its not all that enjoyable I guess :P



OneSock #7 Posted 13 May 2018 - 10:59 AM

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So change the engagement. Push harder to gain a better position.

If you know a particular position is bad for you, go somewhere else.

HeidenSieker #8 Posted 13 May 2018 - 11:58 AM

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View PostOneSock, on 13 May 2018 - 10:59 AM, said:

So change the engagement. Push harder to gain a better position.

If you know a particular position is bad for you, go somewhere else.

 

That. A hulldown enemy heavy is useless if he can't shoot anything; he'll have to move (or alternatively be SPG'd to bits)...

Edited by HeidenSieker, 13 May 2018 - 11:58 AM.


Fighto #9 Posted 13 May 2018 - 01:34 PM

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So the biggest question is , do WG play the game but keep things utterly imbalanced like to 268-4 so they can rigg MM or are they just utter bell ends, that just don't know or don't care. 

Long_Range_Sniper #10 Posted 13 May 2018 - 01:35 PM

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View PostOneSock, on 13 May 2018 - 09:59 AM, said:

So change the engagement. Push harder to gain a better position.

If you know a particular position is bad for you, go somewhere else.

 

For a map to be balanced given a random distribution of player skill then there should be equal opportunities for players on both teams to exploit the features of the map.

 

As engagements take place at predictable locations then each side of the map should provide sufficient locations for you to utilise to counter those locations.

 

When one side of the map gives more useful locations than the other side it is not balanced. That's got nothing to do with your skill as a player and your capacity to adapt.

 

It's just bad design.

 

View PostHeidenSieker, on 13 May 2018 - 10:58 AM, said:

That. A hulldown enemy heavy is useless if he can't shoot anything; he'll have to move (or alternatively be SPG'd to bits)...

 

Any tank is useless if it can't shoot anything. Being hulldown is irrelevant. You can't shoot the enemy if you park behind a building, and you can't be artied either. But your tank is still useless. 



Balc0ra #11 Posted 13 May 2018 - 02:03 PM

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It's not just 100% down to WG alone on everything. Gotta remember there are actual players that gave this the go to and said it was fine too. As it's a combination of WG and the super testers. It's why the new province is what it is. As their testers said it was "fun". These are the same tester that said the 268 4 was fine and let it pass without objection. As weaker tanks have not come out of super test as they were to "OP".

 

But since most of their testers are "lobsters" and they did say Fjords was fine to with the 993 135 bushes North has in their field to name one. You get the picture.


Edited by Balc0ra, 13 May 2018 - 02:04 PM.


Erwin_Von_Braun #12 Posted 13 May 2018 - 02:24 PM

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View PostSimeon85, on 13 May 2018 - 08:52 AM, said:

Westfield, the heavy brawling ridges, the spot about C3 ish, where the the heavies from the west team can easily sit hull down and peak with just their turrets so shoot the other sides heavies easily because on their side the gradient is gentle.

 

But the east spawns heavies, their side of the ridge,  if they want to peak from their side in that spot, even -10 gun depression tanks have to expose pretty much their whole tank to peak over because the gradient is steeper.

 

This obviously cause an imbalance in a key area of the map, it is common to see the west spawn win the heavy corner more often than not, especially if they have a good hull down heavy.

 

But you don't notice these unblanced areas that have an impact on the game, unless you actually play the game. 

 

:facepalm:

kejmo #13 Posted 13 May 2018 - 02:31 PM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 13 May 2018 - 01:03 PM, said:

It's not just 100% down to WG alone on everything. Gotta remember there are actual players that gave this the go to and said it was fine too. As it's a combination of WG and the super testers. It's why the new province is what it is. As their testers said it was "fun". These are the same tester that said the 268 4 was fine and let it pass without objection. As weaker tanks have not come out of super test as they were to "OP".

 

But since most of their testers are "lobsters" and they did say Fjords was fine to with the 993 135 bushes North has in their field to name one. You get the picture.

 

I would gladly meet in person and say a "hearthy hello" to a player that approved, for example, +2 tier difference. I would take T29 for example and give him SU85 to try and destroy me. 

 

On the other hand, WG is perfectly aware that +2, or 3-5-7, or 3x c4rcinome teams are completely out of hand and balance.

 

But, if something works well - there is no profit. 

 

You all need to realize that the game is made not for fun and balance, but for profit.

 

 



Simeon85 #14 Posted 13 May 2018 - 07:26 PM

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View PostOneSock, on 13 May 2018 - 10:59 AM, said:

So change the engagement. Push harder to gain a better position.

If you know a particular position is bad for you, go somewhere else.

 

You don't really get it.

 

It's not about me fighting them there, it's about them having an advantage over my team, I can't make my whole team move and I can't do much in lower tier meds against E5s and Super Conquerors dominating these spots.

 

And there is no advantageous position elsewhere for that team, it's not like west spawn have this spot and east have this other spot that they can dominate, it;s just basically the most important spot on the map that often decides the game allows one team to much more easily dominate.

 

It's just bad map design.

 

It's much like Liver Oaks where the bridge battle massively favours the south team, if there are equal numbers there south wins, because their positions are so much better and so more abusable. There is no plan B on that map, pushing through town is useless (and again MUCH easier for the South team to defend against a push from City) so what does the north team have? Go win the useless city and get swarmed from behind, or go fight in a spot that heavily favours the other team.

 

A key to good play is don't fight in positions that favour the enemy, but on some maps you have no choice because the map design is poor and unbalanced.

 

Bad design, bad super testing and developers that don't play their own games enough to have experience of these broken positions. 



CptBarney #15 Posted 13 May 2018 - 09:32 PM

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View PostErwin_Von_Braun, on 13 May 2018 - 01:24 PM, said:

 

:facepalm:

 

putting down the reasons why you think someone is wrong is hard isn't it?

HeidenSieker #16 Posted 14 May 2018 - 10:18 AM

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View PostLong_Range_Sniper, on 13 May 2018 - 01:35 PM, said:

Any tank is useless if it can't shoot anything. Being hulldown is irrelevant. You can't shoot the enemy if you park behind a building, and you can't be artied either. But your tank is still useless. 

 

The OP specifically mentioned it, twice:

 

Simeon85: "Westfield, the heavy brawling ridges, the spot about C3 ish, where the the heavies from the west team can easily sit hull down and peak with just their turrets so shoot the other sides heavies easily because on their side the gradient is gentle.

 

But the east spawns heavies, their side of the ridge,  if they want to peak from their side in that spot, even -10 gun depression tanks have to expose pretty much their whole tank to peak over because the gradient is steeper.

 

This obviously cause an imbalance in a key area of the map, it is common to see the west spawn win the heavy corner more often than not, especially if they have a good hull down heavy."

 

So in context yes, it is very relevant.


Edited by HeidenSieker, 14 May 2018 - 10:18 AM.


HeidenSieker #17 Posted 14 May 2018 - 10:22 AM

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View PostSimeon85, on 13 May 2018 - 07:26 PM, said:

 

You don't really get it.

 

It's not about me fighting them there, it's about them having an advantage over my team, I can't make my whole team move and I can't do much in lower tier meds against E5s and Super Conquerors dominating these spots.

 

And there is no advantageous position elsewhere for that team, it's not like west spawn have this spot and east have this other spot that they can dominate, it;s just basically the most important spot on the map that often decides the game allows one team to much more easily dominate.

 

What's the win rate for either spawn?

TankkiPoju #18 Posted 14 May 2018 - 11:09 AM

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Ruinberg is still the same crapfest as before HD maps: North side pretty much wins the game every time. Same with Mines.



Long_Range_Sniper #19 Posted 14 May 2018 - 11:41 AM

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View PostHeidenSieker, on 14 May 2018 - 09:18 AM, said:

 

The OP specifically mentioned it, twice:

 

Simeon85: "Westfield, the heavy brawling ridges, the spot about C3 ish, where the the heavies from the west team can easily sit hull down and peak with just their turrets so shoot the other sides heavies easily because on their side the gradient is gentle.

 

But the east spawns heavies, their side of the ridge,  if they want to peak from their side in that spot, even -10 gun depression tanks have to expose pretty much their whole tank to peak over because the gradient is steeper.

 

This obviously cause an imbalance in a key area of the map, it is common to see the west spawn win the heavy corner more often than not, especially if they have a good hull down heavy."

 

So in context yes, it is very relevant.

 

 It's not relevant because a hulldown heavy that can't shoot anything isn't "hulldown" which was your example. It's a tank that's hiding. I defer to your expertise in hiding on the battlefield though.

 

The OP refers to hulldown heavies that can shoot things from one side, and tanks that aren't hulldown that can shoot things from the other side. Which is not good balance to have positions that are different in this respect. He talks about hulldown tanks and tanks that are peaking. Two different tactical options.

 

Which was why your example was irrelevant, because any position that can't be used as a fire position is irrelevant for a direct fire vehicle.

 

Hulldown is protecting the vulnerable parts of your tank whilst still keeping your main armament available to fire. You can't be hulldown if you're not able to fire. Equally you can't be hulldown, if you can fire but your weak lower plate is exposed.

 

Would you like to watch a replay of hulldown tanks?



Simeon85 #20 Posted 14 May 2018 - 11:43 AM

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View PostHeidenSieker, on 14 May 2018 - 10:18 AM, said:

 

The OP specifically mentioned it, twice:

 

Simeon85: "Westfield, the heavy brawling ridges, the spot about C3 ish, where the the heavies from the west team can easily sit hull down and peak with just their turrets so shoot the other sides heavies easily because on their side the gradient is gentle.

 

But the east spawns heavies, their side of the ridge,  if they want to peak from their side in that spot, even -10 gun depression tanks have to expose pretty much their whole tank to peak over because the gradient is steeper.

 

This obviously cause an imbalance in a key area of the map, it is common to see the west spawn win the heavy corner more often than not, especially if they have a good hull down heavy."

 

So in context yes, it is very relevant.

 

In the context you used it, no it wasn't relevant, that was what LRS was saying.

 

You can't not fight there basically, because it's a key map spot, leaving it open gives the enemy a lot of map control, you'd either not fight in the north at all, or all your heavies would have to be further over behind the next hill, where there position is not great to fight from and it makes them easily flanked and surrounded.

 

Poor map design having limited areas to fight full stop then highlights the bad balance of these restricted areas.

 

Similar to the Liver Oaks bridge side, the north team simply has to put up a fight there if they want a realistic chance of winning the game, but if they do they are at a massive disadvantage.

 

If you are going to design a map that basically has 1-2 viable flanks, you need to ensure those flanks are fair to both sides. 

 

 






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