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Fjords - Content for the most unbalanced map?


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CaptainMastiff #1 Posted 14 May 2018 - 11:28 AM

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1.0 Brought us the re imagined version of Fjords

 

North spawn can easily take the following map control areas A8, E5, and E7, if a scout wants to push across it can also Go along the 7 Line to get some passive bush spotting. This isn't even including the TD Peninsula to shoot anything that goes to the bottom of the map and dares to turn the corner.

The south spawn... can push for E5 if they want and be permanently spotted, not arty safe and get crossfire from A8. You can camp at C5 but you're already on the massive defensive at that point and the moment they push you'll be lit up.

_______________

With that in mind, let's discuss how WarGaming ever imagined this map was appropriate.



Enforcer1975 #2 Posted 14 May 2018 - 11:33 AM

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Erlenberg is just as unbalanced. 

 

North has all the key positions. 

The small island at 1 line where you can basically shoot everything along the field to the east and anything comning from the south .

The bushes and ridgelines across the northwest flank...attackers from the south have to go through open field to get the same amount of cover but even if they manage to push through there is another spot just behind the east shore of the river where you can shoot the entire west field and northern ridgelines because those aren't cover for the attackers, total line of fire for the defenders.

I don't need to mention the obvious camping spot in the northeast do i? 

So far only the southeast corner is a camping corner for the southern spawn. 


Edited by Enforcer1975, 14 May 2018 - 11:34 AM.


CaptainMastiff #3 Posted 14 May 2018 - 11:42 AM

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Province is looking more dynamic that these old maps reworked

Enforcer1975 #4 Posted 14 May 2018 - 12:05 PM

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View PostCaptainMastiff, on 14 May 2018 - 11:42 AM, said:

Province is looking more dynamic that these old maps reworked

 

Maybe because they aren't played with the bottom tiers anymore. Tier 1-3 never had the mobility the upper tiers have and the map was even smaller back then. 

tank276 #5 Posted 14 May 2018 - 12:29 PM

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View PostCaptainMastiff, on 14 May 2018 - 10:28 AM, said:

1.0 Brought us the re imagined version of Fjords

 

North spawn can easily take the following map control areas A8, E5, and E7, if a scout wants to push across it can also Go along the 7 Line to get some passive bush spotting. This isn't even including the TD Peninsula to shoot anything that goes to the bottom of the map and dares to turn the corner.

The south spawn... can push for E5 if they want and be permanently spotted, not arty safe and get crossfire from A8. You can camp at C5 but you're already on the massive defensive at that point and the moment they push you'll be lit up.

_______________

With that in mind, let's discuss how WarGaming ever imagined this map was appropriate.

 

I find it the other way around, if I understood you correctly.

I found the SouthEast spawn more powerful than the NorthWest one.

If you manage to take the central hill (which is easier for the SE spawn team) plus send 3-4 people exploit the ridge at the NorthEast corner, it is gg for the enemy.

 


Edited by tank276, 14 May 2018 - 12:34 PM.


CaptainMastiff #6 Posted 14 May 2018 - 12:37 PM

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View Posttank276, on 14 May 2018 - 12:29 PM, said:

 

I find it the other way around, if I understood you correctly.

I found the SouthEast spawn more powerful than the NorthWest one.

If you manage to take the central hill (which is easier for the SE spawn team) plus send 3-4 people exploit the ridge at the NorthEast corner, it is gg for the enemy.

 

 

It's north east spawn and south west spawn

pucku #7 Posted 14 May 2018 - 12:42 PM

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DangerMouse #8 Posted 14 May 2018 - 01:07 PM

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I don't understand why WG ever though that this map would be balanced, on just about all maps high ground is important tactically and on this one they give all the high ground to the East spawn, if that team is remotely good then they will invariably win.

 

DM



tank276 #9 Posted 14 May 2018 - 01:24 PM

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View PostCaptainMastiff, on 14 May 2018 - 11:37 AM, said:

 

It's north east spawn and south west spawn

 

No , it isnt. If you look at the map 2 posts above, you will see a spawn to the North West and one to the South East.

Basic cross N above, S below, E right, W left.



DangerMouse #10 Posted 14 May 2018 - 01:26 PM

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View Posttank276, on 14 May 2018 - 12:24 PM, said:

 

No , it isnt. If you look at the map 2 posts above, you will see a spawn to the North West and one to the South East.

Basic cross N above, S below, E right, W left.

 

Its almost an East, West map.

leggasiini #11 Posted 14 May 2018 - 01:27 PM

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Worst map in the game right now. It's not only horribly unbalanced, but also very unfun to play with most tank classes across all tiers. 

 

It has an idiotmagnet that is only on one side (peninsula), the south is alright as itself but fairly irrelevant, middle is an utter deadzone, etc etc. Either the other team steamrolls (typically the one from the superior side), or it's a huge campfest.



Ubervold #12 Posted 14 May 2018 - 01:31 PM

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What do you think about the new maps in general, now that they have been around for a while.

To me they look nice but they play worse than the old maps, maybe that´s just me being old and a slow learner?



Sirebellus #13 Posted 14 May 2018 - 01:36 PM

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I used to hate Fjords, it was the map I really didn't like playing.
Now with this new version I don't mind it at all - from either spawn.

 

I can't say I'd noticed one side or the other doing particularly better than the other



Rozbrus #14 Posted 15 May 2018 - 09:00 AM

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I do not like new maps. First, most of them was made totaly TD unfriendly and all those spots that could be used to snipe are gone. There are more obstacles or hilly terrain now. Then there are unbalanced changes like on Fisherman Bay, the south part of the eastern valley has a huge bunker with an opnening for a gun to shoot through. Northern part does not. Good luck pushing there from the wrong side. Ensk is still too small for high tiers. After one battle there when my JT was spotted and killed about 30s after the match started, I sold the JT and hate the map. And do not even start about the Province. This one must be some revenge on players. I have never seen more stupid map. Ever.

Simeon85 #15 Posted 15 May 2018 - 11:48 AM

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Yeh hugely unbalanced to the East spawn, if they have any sort of competence they get the middle hill and they go north and they basically will win from there.

 

West spawn either gets the middle hill or has to give up all map control and has basically nowhere to fall back to.

 

Not like it's the only one though, many maps are currently unbalanced and favour one side, several have been in the game for years and were still unbalanced even though they went through the HD process, like Mines encounter heavily favours the north team, Live Oaks heavily favours the south team etc. 

 

The only unbalanced map they seem to have done anything about was Sand River assault which has been taken out. 

 

View PostRozbrus, on 15 May 2018 - 09:00 AM, said:

I do not like new maps. First, most of them was made totaly TD unfriendly and all those spots that could be used to snipe are gone. 

 

Many maps are literred with OP base camping spots that are infested with TDs, Redshire redline spots, Mines base camping platforms, base camping platforms on Abbey, on Karelia, on Cliff, Erlenberg is dominated by red line camping spots. Fishermans bay A2/B2 spot is still there, the peninsular on Fjords. etc. etc.

 

All these spots have elevation, concealment, hard cover, and overlook open approaches from almost very direction and are often near impossible to flank. 

 

 

 


Edited by Simeon85, 15 May 2018 - 11:52 AM.


DracheimFlug #16 Posted 15 May 2018 - 11:57 AM

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View PostSimeon85, on 15 May 2018 - 11:48 AM, said:

Yeh hugely unbalanced to the East spawn, if they have any sort of competence they get the middle hill and they go north and they basically will win from there.

 

West spawn either gets the middle hill or has to give up all map control and has basically nowhere to fall back to.

 

Not like it's the only one though, many maps are currently unbalanced and favour one side, several have been in the game for years and were still unbalanced even though they went through the HD process, like Mines encounter heavily favours the north team, Live Oaks heavily favours the south team etc. 

 

The only unbalanced map they seem to have done anything about was Sand River assault which has been taken out. 

 

 

Many maps are literred with OP base camping spots that are infested with TDs, Redshire redline spots, Mines base camping platforms, base camping platforms on Abbey, on Karelia, on Cliff, Erlenberg is dominated by red line camping spots. Fishermans bay A2/B2 spot is still there, the peninsular on Fjords. etc. etc.

 

All these spots have elevation, concealment, hard cover, and overlook open approaches from almost very direction and are often near impossible to flank. 

 

 

 

 

The west has great sniper spots in the bushes along the NS pass in the middle of B4. The northern passes support and control each other. Both sides have some great spots. Personally I think that any imbalances are due to these being new maps and people simply not figuring out tactics for them. But then there are older maps like El Halluf where people seem to have forgotten tactics for them.... :/

Simeon85 #17 Posted 15 May 2018 - 12:09 PM

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View PostDracheimFlug, on 15 May 2018 - 11:57 AM, said:

 

The west has great sniper spots in the bushes along the NS pass in the middle of B4. The northern passes support and control each other. Both sides have some great spots. Personally I think that any imbalances are due to these being new maps and people simply not figuring out tactics for them. But then there are older maps like El Halluf where people seem to have forgotten tactics for them.... :/

 

Any tank with decent view range spots those campers spots from the middle hill, unless it's like a Swedish TD and will definitely spot almost anything if those tanks fire. The East team's tanks up north by the waterfall then have free and clear shots onto these campers and they will get wrecked pretty quickly.

 

You can also move up to E4 and you'll spot down that road, again spotting most of the campers. 

 

The middle also spots any tanks at A6 that peak or try to move up, the East team also then uphill in the north by the waterfall so if the west team's tanks want to try to take the north where the waterfall is they have to fight uphill and as soon as they hit B7, the middle has shots into them .

 

So West team basically will struggle to take the north without the hill and they will struggle to take the hill without the north, but the east team only really needs to take one, up north they can camp and snipe as the middle hill dominates the field.

 

It's super unbalanced, nothing to do with players not figuring out tactics, pretty much every super unicum out there has said the same, some of the best field commanders in the game have said the same. 



IncandescentGerbil #18 Posted 15 May 2018 - 12:18 PM

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Screw the balance - fix the waterfall. It looks crap!

DracheimFlug #19 Posted 15 May 2018 - 12:19 PM

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View PostSimeon85, on 15 May 2018 - 12:09 PM, said:

 

Any tank with decent view range spots those campers spots from the middle hill, unless it's like a Swedish TD and will definitely spot almost anything if those tanks fire. The East team's tanks up north by the waterfall then have free and clear shots onto these campers and they will get wrecked pretty quickly.

 

You can also move up to E4 and you'll spot down that road, again spotting most of the campers. 

 

The middle also spots any tanks at A6 that peak or try to move up, the East team also then uphill in the north by the waterfall so if the west team's tanks want to try to take the north where the waterfall is they have to fight uphill and as soon as they hit B7, the middle has shots into them .

 

So West team basically will struggle to take the north without the hill and they will struggle to take the hill without the north, but the east team only really needs to take one, up north they can camp and snipe as the middle hill dominates the field.

 

It's super unbalanced, nothing to do with players not figuring out tactics, pretty much every super unicum out there has said the same, some of the best field commanders in the game have said the same. 

 

Dunno. I have had a fair bit of luck there. Of course I am not always firing from that point but sometimes spotting for others from there. Unlike the spots I am talking about, the hill you are talking about does not seem to have similar soft cover. It may also be that I am more often in the mid-tiers than you and therefore view ranges are lower. 'Take the north' though? Are we talking about the same map? West has easy access to the North and East has easy access to the NS center-line. West should simply have and hold the North, not have to take it. 

 

The exception is the NE, and with that, West has to be careful not to overextend around the corner and out of the reach of supporting gun (including out of the reach of friendly arty support). The same is true though in the SW corner for East.



DracheimFlug #20 Posted 15 May 2018 - 12:20 PM

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View PostIncandescentGerbil, on 15 May 2018 - 12:18 PM, said:

Screw the balance - fix the waterfall. It looks crap!

 

Maybe on your system... for me it gave me a rare twinge of homesickness...




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