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the perfect side scraping angle?


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Dakaar #1 Posted 17 May 2018 - 11:53 AM

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i am trying to get the best side scraping angle and practise using it. but im getting hit and miss results (no pun intended) i punched the angle into tanks gg to look at the best angle and this is what i get

tank angle.jpg tank angle2.jpg

the outcome isnt too great. half the time i still get pend in the tracks area instead of ricocheting 

 

i try and use the mini tank icon in the lower left corner as my guide as i get more used to side scraping i touch the edge of the gun to the esdge of the tracks like so

live angle.jpg

is this too much angling? not enough? any tips on getting it right would be great!



Nethraniel #2 Posted 17 May 2018 - 12:08 PM

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Hm, at the angle of the screenshot, the IS M has around 210-230 mm of effective armor for penning through the front drivewheel. If you angle less, the effective armor at the upper and lower frontplate goes down to 220 mm

 

So, all in all against higher tier tanks, and same tier HT and TD the IS M is almost impossible to angle for effect out in the open.

 

However, if you are sidescraping, so you cover your frontplate with a rock or a wall, you can angle the side armor quite well.



Strappster #3 Posted 17 May 2018 - 12:28 PM

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View PostDakaar, on 17 May 2018 - 10:53 AM, said:

i try and use the mini tank icon in the lower left corner as my guide as i get more used to side scraping i touch the edge of the gun to the esdge of the tracks like so

 

The problem you have with this example specifically is that the mini tank icon on your screenshot is different to your IS-M. The mini tank has a forward turret while your IS-M has a rear-mounted turret so using the mini tank as a guide is causing you to over-angle.



pecopad #4 Posted 17 May 2018 - 12:29 PM

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Beware of hitbox issues with patch 1.0

 

You will find that some players will pen you no matter what angle you are...

 

Also the trick in side-scraping is to lure some shots and defend a position, protect the frontal weak-spots, don't be aggressive and you will be OK.

 

The only issue is that games to be fast and without any regard to strategy, so side scrapping is more useful in team battles, while in randoms its now something you see less and less.



Graeme0 #5 Posted 17 May 2018 - 12:41 PM

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Also...

 

Beware HE ammo.  It'll rip your side apart regardless of the angle



Captain_Kremen0 #6 Posted 17 May 2018 - 12:42 PM

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Trying to hold a route while the lemming train folds on the other flank and you get shot in the [edited].

ramram70 #7 Posted 17 May 2018 - 12:42 PM

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There is a mod that shows your angling in colors on the mini-icon (lower left). Is that mod legal?

 


Edited by ramram70, 17 May 2018 - 12:43 PM.


Bora_BOOM #8 Posted 17 May 2018 - 12:43 PM

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Perfect angle is hard to achieve unless you are really really good, especially with a particular tank. Even then there are many reasons that can cause you get penned or not - luck (tracks blocking shots), ammo type (heat vs. tracks and spaced armor), RNG, distance you are shot from (shell pen drop) ... Also, tank that shoots you can move, so dependable on the distance it could force you to traverse to keep the angle. Then, if you angle towards two tanks on different locations one might pen you or the other.

 

Have in mind that hiding behind the obstacle might mean that perfect angle could cause your reversing to cover much longer than if you angle a bit more than you should, go out, snap your shot and go back. Sometimes (dependable of the cover size and enemies position) ideal angle means you need to go back 2x even 3x lengths of your tank so you could be able to shoot - which means if you have ally behind you he will be in your way (and you would obstruct him too). Even if you are alone that distance from the rock or a building might enable arta to shoot you.

 

After all, tanks have different armor, pikes, shapes so it much depends on the tank - some you don’t angle at all, others like 257 let you show your side almost flat-on and you can still bounce/block. Looking at the majority of the models ideal angle is not far away from pointing your gun toward enemy and having the front corner of the hull under your gun (exactly as it is shown on your second attached image).

Reverse side-scraping makes many tanks positioned much more effective, even without exposing any weak surfaces. Just don’t forget not to pres W when trying to hide.... :hiding:


Edited by Bora_BOOM, 17 May 2018 - 01:04 PM.


WhoCares01 #9 Posted 17 May 2018 - 12:55 PM

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The usual purpose of sidescraping is to keep the weak armor behind some hardcover, in the case of IS-M vs. IS-M primarily the lower and upper front plate, and the angled piece above the tracks. As such, while not wrong in his analysis, the values that Nethaniel provided for the lower and upper frontplate would be basically irrelevant, because ideally you are exposing none of those spots to the enemy while sidescraping - you just go back far enough to clear the gun.

For the IS-M you'd have two sidescraping angles, either the gun points just over the forward tip of the track (still over the front of the tank!), a little less angled than you showed it in your first screenshot from tanks.gg. That would just leave the "sensitive" little angled piece of hull armor just above the frontal tracks exposed, while the side is still at autobounce angle. Or you angle like in your first screenshot, also hiding the sensitive angled piece of hull armor, but parts of the sidearmor are no longer auto-bounce.

 

Things change when your tank is fully exposed. In that case you might need to angle a little more to increase the effective armor of the frontplates, but without weakening the sidearmor too much. Tricky...

 

With that said, looking at your in-game screenshot I'd say you are overangling in the first case, as the gun is pointing further over the side than necessary. If the tank is fully exposed, it might actually be fairly okay against another IS-M - against tanks with more pen though, good luck....

 

 

... and meanwhile most of my rambling has been covered by others, and better as well....

 

Picking up on Bora_BOOMs point, it's not just about getting behind cover, but actually coming out of it to fire a snapshot, and doing so before the enemy himself makes it into cover. With that in mind, the "ideal" angle will work when you just stand there pre-aiming at a target/position, but it might not work for snapshotting enemies around corners.

 

 


Edited by WhoCares01, 17 May 2018 - 01:04 PM.


Dakaar #10 Posted 17 May 2018 - 02:06 PM

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thank you for all the awesome replies. side scraping is something I never really got the feel off so always avoided it but its time I pulled my thumb out and got the hand of the basics

View PostStrappster, on 17 May 2018 - 11:28 AM, said:

 

The problem you have with this example specifically is that the mini tank icon on your screenshot is different to your IS-M. The mini tank has a forward turret while your IS-M has a rear-mounted turret so using the mini tank as a guide is causing you to over-angle.

I understand using the rear mounted turret over a mid turret does change it but I mainly use it for the angle rather than the steadfast turret position. the angle would still be the same even for a tog XD

View PostGraeme0, on 17 May 2018 - 11:41 AM, said:

Also...

 

Beware HE ammo.  It'll rip your side apart regardless of the angle

thankfully not many people have been switching to HE yet. only once I start against something I cant pen do they think "oh yeah, I can use HE" XD

View Postramram70, on 17 May 2018 - 11:42 AM, said:

There is a mod that shows your angling in colours on the mini-icon (lower left). Is that mod legal?

 

it didn't used to be but I'm not sure these days. there used to be one in aslains mod pack but haven't seen it for a while

View Postpecopad, on 17 May 2018 - 11:29 AM, said:

Beware of hitbox issues with patch 1.0

 

You will find that some players will pen you no matter what angle you are...

 

Also the trick in side-scraping is to lure some shots and defend a position, protect the frontal weak-spots, don't be aggressive and you will be OK.

 

The only issue is that games to be fast and without any regard to strategy, so side scrapping is more useful in team battles, while in randoms its now something you see less and less.

oh didn't know about any hitbox issues

View PostWhoCares01, on 17 May 2018 - 11:55 AM, said:

...With that said, looking at your in-game screenshot I'd say you are overangling in the first case, as the gun is pointing further over the side than necessary. If the tank is fully exposed, it might actually be fairly okay against another IS-M - against tanks with more pen though, good luck....

ok, thank you. I was afraid I may have been over angling 

 

I shall keep practising. thank you all for your inputs. its muchly appreciated!


Edited by Dakaar, 17 May 2018 - 02:06 PM.


Emeraldweed #11 Posted 17 May 2018 - 02:08 PM

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I generally aim the front track wheel directly towards them and do minor adjustments depending on the characteristics of the tank ( generally the perfect angle is when the gun points above the front track wheel) 

Edited by Emeraldweed, 17 May 2018 - 02:09 PM.


Spurtung #12 Posted 18 May 2018 - 05:02 AM

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View PostStrappster, on 17 May 2018 - 01:28 PM, said:

 

The problem you have with this example specifically is that the mini tank icon on your screenshot is different to your IS-M. The mini tank has a forward turret while your IS-M has a rear-mounted turret so using the mini tank as a guide is causing you to over-angle.

 

The only difference is that the vertex of the angle moved along the purple line, but the angle itself is still the exact same.

Are these mods legal?
 

WhoCares01 #13 Posted 18 May 2018 - 08:43 AM

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View PostSpurtung, on 18 May 2018 - 05:03 AM, said:

Are these mods legal?

 

I wouldn't mid the angle indicator. More interesting is the reload counter for the enemy tank (IS-4 in the screenshot) - I seem to remember a recent discussion about such a mod, though I can't remember what came out of it - I guess nothing, as usual :ohmy:

Somnorila #14 Posted 18 May 2018 - 09:46 AM

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I have one big issue that can affect this practice too. I find it difficult to asses what the enemy sees of my tank over the ridges or at corners and the angle between his gun and my tank. You also need to know the tanks and be aware of calibers, penetration and type of shells of enemy guns. The theory is simple, the practice not so much. So i have no clue :) But from my experience hitting enemies who sidescrape i think that being closer to them seems to result in more bounces than shooting them from larger distances. Don't know if it's something here or just in my imagination. It's possible that at larger distances the enemy has same issue and can't really asses the angle correctly while still be able to shoot back and thus over angles and that's why i can get side damaging shots.

Probably if the camera would had been fixed for everyone it would be more balanced and fair. It would exclude personal abilities and differences to asses angles and distances. Same fixed perspective would probably be better for balancing purpose.


Edited by Somnorila, 18 May 2018 - 09:49 AM.


anonym_kL7qtn3e52MB #15 Posted 18 May 2018 - 11:21 AM

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View Postramram70, on 17 May 2018 - 12:42 PM, said:

There is a mod that shows your angling in colors on the mini-icon (lower left). Is that mod legal?

 

 

Does it give an advantage (significance is not important) compared to the vanilla UI???

 

Yes? Not allowed

No? Allowed

 

 

The reload timer is forbidden/not allowed (and has been for quite some time)


Edited by Spek_en_Bonen, 18 May 2018 - 11:21 AM.


Dorander #16 Posted 18 May 2018 - 03:32 PM

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View PostSpek_en_Bonen, on 18 May 2018 - 10:21 AM, said:

 

Does it give an advantage (significance is not important) compared to the vanilla UI???

 

Yes? Not allowed

No? Allowed

 

The Fair Play Policy disagrees with this statement. See mod type 2 in the FPP.



Bennie182 #17 Posted 19 May 2018 - 05:19 PM

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it's totally depending on the tank. IS-M, like shown in the picture can be good as long as you don't show your front. it is being compared as being a mini-VK-B. not really my opinion, because the front of the tank is not as well armored as the VK-B is for it's tier. Tier 8 heavies can quite easily pen this tank on the front.

 

VK4502B is good at loads of angles, because a lot of tanks won't pen you that easily in the LFP.

You want to limit your exposure time also, so keep this in mind. smaller angle is mostly a longer exposure time.



shikaka9 #18 Posted 19 May 2018 - 05:31 PM

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IS-M LOL :trollface:

Flid_Merchant #19 Posted 19 May 2018 - 07:36 PM

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Well 70 is the auto-bounce angle (disregarding overmatch) so it would make sense that 20 degrees off is a good starting point. Other than that, too much depends on the individual tank.

anonym_kL7qtn3e52MB #20 Posted 20 May 2018 - 07:50 AM

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View PostDorander, on 18 May 2018 - 03:32 PM, said:

The Fair Play Policy disagrees with this statement. See mod type 2 in the FPP.

 

https://worldoftanks...ir_play_policy/

 

 

Which Modifications Will Be Penalized?

We know there are lots of mods out there, and we have already implemented a number of useful community mods into the game. However, some mods and software work against the community’s best interests. To be clear on what makes our naughty and nice list when we review third-party software, we divide them into three different categories:

  1. Mods that do not provide a gameplay advantage, but merely allow information customization for the viewer. They are “pure” mods in the traditional sense, and we like them.
  2. Mods that do provide a gameplay advantage, but one that we believe contributes to the game in a positive way. In the short term, we’ll treat these as good mods, and we will look to implement them into the vanilla client in the future.
  3. Mods that do provide a gameplay advantage, one that we think is bad overall for the game. These are classified as a cheat and are illegal going forward.

Listed below are modifications that fall into this third category. Players that are found using them will receive a penalty.

  • Mods that reveal the position of enemies in a way not included in the vanilla client, by marking objects destroyed on the map and minimap in real-time, by altering the display of shell flight tracers or calculating the position of enemy SPGs with tracers and marking them, as well as those that keep spotted vehicles displayed, even when you aren’t aiming at them.
  • Software that makes it easier to block an enemy’s shell by indicating their exact aiming point, for example, with a laser beam.
  • Modifications that alert you when spotted vehicles are reloading or show enemy vehicles’ reloading timers.
  • Auto-aim or so-called “aimbots” that provide more functionality than the “aim lock” in the vanilla client, specifically including those that aim at the enemy's weak spots and/or lead the aim automatically so that a cheater can focus on maneuvering their tank.
  • Software that enables the automatic use of non-Premium consumables.
  • Mods that aid in finding enemies by letting you adjust the transparency of objects on the map.
  • Software that leaves “ghosts” of enemy vehicles on the battlefield, placed where they were last detected.
  • Mods that actually alter the physical properties, performance characteristics, or effects of any vehicle or object in the game, or subvert the game rules.

Edited by Spek_en_Bonen, 20 May 2018 - 07:51 AM.





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