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Is WoT in Decline ? If so, Why ?


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HeidenSieker #41 Posted 18 May 2018 - 05:34 PM

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View PostRicky_Rolls, on 18 May 2018 - 05:24 PM, said:

Is WoT in Decline ? Yes, since a while now. Why? Cuz of those greedy russian ******* who don't give a single **** about their game, they only know how to milk it.

 

To "milk it" they have to successfully attract people, and condition them to pay (preferably keeping them sa customers).

jabster #42 Posted 18 May 2018 - 05:35 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 18 May 2018 - 02:20 PM, said:

 

What something is truly worth and what it sells for are two different things altogether, so no.

 

The new iPhone costs €999 in the store but it costs roughly €400 to produce, so the worth is €400, not €999

A premium tank is worth the amount of money it cost to model/implement it into the game divided by the amount of customers that buy it. Since no physical materials are needed to produce a new one and it can be duplicated indefinitely with negligible cost it's value is somewhere in the region of €1 or below. Anything over that is the profit Wargaming wants but that has got nothing to do with the worth of it.

 

Cobra 6

 

That doesn’t really work though does it as you’re placing a worth on the parts that make up the phone so this is turtles all the way down.



malachi6 #43 Posted 18 May 2018 - 05:39 PM

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The game seems to time keeping me interested about right.  New trees I want to grind or a special that gives me a goal.  The Italian commander with the name that confuses me, is keeping me playing right now.  Hopefully, when the paid for premium ammo is gone.  They can re balance that and then the tanks properly.

 

 



Bordhaw #44 Posted 18 May 2018 - 08:11 PM

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View PostStinkyStonky, on 18 May 2018 - 10:39 AM, said:

Is WoT in Decline ?

 

I've seen this claimed a few times (e.g Sir Foch's "Bobject" rant).  It's inevitable that one day WoT will fall into decline.  Is that already happening ?  Perhaps.  I don't know.

 

 



_Dunc_ #45 Posted 19 May 2018 - 07:53 AM

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In pure business terms, as long as the revenue generated exceeds the cost of providing the product, it makes sense to keep it alive. 

 

The interesting thing to note now is the apparent shift in revenue dynamics: historically, WG always maintained that most of the game revenue came from occasional micro transactions from casual players buying gold to skip a grind or get silver. Next was premium account sales. Premium tanks were a long way down in third place (this is back when there were only 40 or so prem tanks in total)

 

For a grind based game, it's necessary to strike a balance between making the grind a challenge, making the reward worthwhile, and having an end point to the grind which brings about or opens up a new game option.

 

War Thunder is a classic case of a game being a bad grind - tedious levels of xp required, little benefit when you do complete a module grind, and absolutely no point in the endgame.

 

WoT used to have a fairly good balance - sure, there were some pure XP sinks, but on the whole it was challenging and rewarding to successfully grind to Tier X. Maybe spend a few dollar-pounds on free xp for track or a gun, and then play a ton of games in a slightly gimped Tier VIII prem to grind the credits for endgame. When all was done, you'd have your IS-7/E100/whatever, and you were ready for clan war, or latterly stronghold.

 

Now though... the xp and credit economy is totally borked. it's gone too far the other way.

 

XP boosters, which are given away like candy now, dramatically shorten the grind. Play Frontline for a few evenings and you've got the credits which previously would have taken weeks of dedicated prem play to generate. And with WGs lack of CW interest, along with big balance issues at X, why would you even bother getting to endgame? (I've unlocked and bought the 50B and 13 105 recently... played one game in the 105, and left it. Haven't even bothered retraining the crew for th 50B or put equipment and consumables on it).

 

This is where the game is showing signs of dying - something reinforced by the endless sales of premium tanks. WGs entire focus now is on high value DLC (effectively), and no longer on micro transactions.

 

Problem is that eventually people stop buying the prem stuff because there's actually little point to owning it - For a long time I was a fully paid up prem collector. Yet, even I've skipped over the PV, Skorp, and several others recently. 

 

If/when the prem tank sales start to dry up, then the game has a problem - because it'll be left with a borked economy, full of premium content, with no point to the endgame.



l3om #46 Posted 19 May 2018 - 09:20 AM

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i most say dude ur not alone

ur reason just like main

take a look @ this

http://forum.worldof...fter-2-5-years/

 



IncandescentGerbil #47 Posted 19 May 2018 - 09:38 AM

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I will say again that I hope it dies sooner rather than later. I mostly play it now as I watch crap TV, out of laziness. 

Edited by IncandescentGerbil, 19 May 2018 - 09:39 AM.


Cobra6 #48 Posted 19 May 2018 - 09:42 AM

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View PostRamRaid90, on 18 May 2018 - 03:27 PM, said:

 

Commission price varies from artist to artist.

Depending on the market value of their circulating work.

 

You would pay much more for a well known artist than you would for some high street store artist who just left college with a B in art.

 

The commission price of an artist (I'm one myself, granted Visual Effects/3D but still) depends on the skill of said artist, his availability and the speed with which you can get stuff done.

You don't pay someone who left college a lot unless they are a very skilled artist.

 

View Postjabster, on 18 May 2018 - 04:35 PM, said:

 

That doesn’t really work though does it as you’re placing a worth on the parts that make up the phone so this is turtles all the way down.

 

Well you pay for material costs and labour. That just goes up each step from the people mining the materials to those making the components to those making the phone.

 

Cobra 6



4ztec #49 Posted 19 May 2018 - 09:46 AM

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I don't play as much as before since WG changed the weekend specials. In the past we had x2/x3 crew xp events every second week and without any requirements. Now you get x2 crew xp sometimes not even once a month and have to win and be in top10 of the team. I guess that way they want to sell more crew xp reserves in the premium shop. Sad...

250swb #50 Posted 19 May 2018 - 10:05 AM

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View PostStinkyStonky, on 18 May 2018 - 10:39 AM, said:

9) High Skill Opponents

    As a noob goes up the tiers they run into more and more high high skill players with highly trained crews firing lots of prem ammo.  They know all the best spots and the noobs get farmed.  This gets worse and worse the the higher up the tiers they go.  I wasn't like this in the early days when everyone was a noob, but after 7 years there are lots of unicorns in every battle.  So it's hard for noobs to do well and enjoy the game

.

 

I think you are wrong with this comment, but nevertheless it brings up an important point.

 

If the game is in decline it will ultimately and eventually be due to the lack of skill at higher tiers and the degradation of quality in battles. It is already happening a) because even bad players eventually get enough credits over time to grind all the way to tier X, and b) because Wargaming are actively encouraging the dream of getting to tier X, with events like TOTT, sexy Premium tanks, etc. All the effort from Wargaming is put into the top tiers and no effort into making lower tier games more attractive. So naturally with the perception that lower tiers are junk (an idea promoted by players on the forum) very few newbies feel like sticking around and learning the game and developing some basic skills. Not everybody can be good, everybody has a right to some fun, but without valuing lower tier battles tier X will become as much a crapfest as any other tier. 

 

To change this perception WG need to do some work, starting by a review of all lower tier Premium and tech tree tanks to put back some value in them. This would slow the race to tier X and players wouldn't feel like they were a grind to get over and done asap.



VonGoofy #51 Posted 19 May 2018 - 10:22 AM

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I stopped playing because:

 

1. Rigged MM where you have time periods where you are "rewarded" with OP teams, and then periods where you are "punished" and put in obviously much worse team where no carry can help you.

2. Like OP said, no end goal. 15v15 all the time, same shi**t all the time. Can be fun for some period of time, but after 35k games I had enough of this. I'm sick of grinding, same tactics same trolls and bots.

3. Unbalanced premium ammo spam. It's just too much in higher tiers. A game that is proud of it's armor mechanics have ammo that nullifies the same thing that they are proud of.

4. Community. One of the most toxic gaming community on the planet. Proof you say? Just look at the chat in your games. 

 

Every now and then I want to install the game again, but then I remember that I'm more frustrated than happy when playing WOT and I have better things to do in my life than be frustrated. 



Evilier_than_Skeletor #52 Posted 19 May 2018 - 10:24 AM

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View PostCobra6, on 18 May 2018 - 03:20 PM, said:

 

What something is truly worth and what it sells for are two different things altogether, so no.

 

The new iPhone costs €999 in the store but it costs roughly €400 to produce, so the worth is €400, not €999

A premium tank is worth the amount of money it cost to model/implement it into the game divided by the amount of customers that buy it. Since no physical materials are needed to produce a new one and it can be duplicated indefinitely with negligible cost it's value is somewhere in the region of €1 or below. Anything over that is the profit Wargaming wants but that has got nothing to do with the worth of it.

 

Cobra 6

This entire idea of worth = value = production cost is so entirely bizarre that the only possible conclusion, with nothing but respect is: get a job you damn hippie. :trollface:

 

As for the topic, there probably will be people wanting to play tanks also in the future. Now whether it'll be WoT or something else is a different matter.



RamRaid90 #53 Posted 19 May 2018 - 10:39 AM

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View PostCobra6, on 19 May 2018 - 08:42 AM, said:

 

The commission price of an artist (I'm one myself, granted Visual Effects/3D but still) depends on the skill of said artist, his availability and the speed with which you can get stuff done.

You don't pay someone who left college a lot unless they are a very skilled artist.

 

 

Of course these are all factors in generating a price. Which is why alot of things cannot just be given a definitive value beyond what the consumer believes it to be worth, since if they deem it unworthy of that price they'll simply not buy it.

 

Two artists paint the exact same painting using the same materials and the end products look almost identical (to the point you'd need an expert to differentiate) One of them is painted by Da Vinci, the other by a random college artist. Fairly obvious which you would pay more for, but how many people would actually buy the Da Vinci when the other needs an art expert to prove it's not real?

 

My point being that a products worth is not always seen as the same by everyone, which is why value cannot be definitive. This is also the reason why bartering with market traders and many high street stores is still a thing (i've even done it recently myself)



Bulldog_Drummond #54 Posted 19 May 2018 - 10:46 AM

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View Post250swb, on 19 May 2018 - 09:05 AM, said:

 

I think you are wrong with this comment, but nevertheless it brings up an important point.

 

If the game is in decline it will ultimately and eventually be due to the lack of skill at higher tiers and the degradation of quality in battles. It is already happening a) because even bad players eventually get enough credits over time to grind all the way to tier X, and b) because Wargaming are actively encouraging the dream of getting to tier X, with events like TOTT, sexy Premium tanks, etc. All the effort from Wargaming is put into the top tiers and no effort into making lower tier games more attractive. So naturally with the perception that lower tiers are junk (an idea promoted by players on the forum) very few newbies feel like sticking around and learning the game and developing some basic skills. Not everybody can be good, everybody has a right to some fun, but without valuing lower tier battles tier X will become as much a crapfest as any other tier. 

 

To change this perception WG need to do some work, starting by a review of all lower tier Premium and tech tree tanks to put back some value in them. This would slow the race to tier X and players wouldn't feel like they were a grind to get over and done asap.

 

An interesting perception, but my take would be a different one.

 

  • Many years ago, on an old account, I was an abysmal player but even I was able to grind my way to an E 100 (helped by credits from my Lowe).  Even 5 years ago there was no shortage of tier 10 players like me who were inept.  My teams must have groaned when they saw my E 100 top tier, with its win rate of 45% and WN8 of 441.
  • WG do give the lower tiers some love and attention.  Tiers 2 & 3 are now +1 MM and in my view there are plenty of interesting tanks and games to be had in low and mid tiers, which is why I mostly play at those levels and have no intention of ever acquiring a tier 10 tank
  • I agree that tier 8 premiums lacking PMM do these days look mostly unappealing due to MM changes


Jigabachi #55 Posted 19 May 2018 - 10:52 AM

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View PostHeidenSieker, on 18 May 2018 - 05:34 PM, said:

To "milk it" they have to successfully attract people, and condition them to pay (preferably keeping them sa customers).

Which is exactly what they do. They continuously release ridiculous premium content and people still fall for it because... I have no idea. Add all the non-premium content (release of OP tanks which get nerfed a few updates later) and you have your milking.



Karasu_Hidesuke #56 Posted 19 May 2018 - 12:14 PM

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Interestingly, my dictionary sums up the term 'value' by saying 'it is in fact a rather imprecise term'... the reasons are that while 'value' basically means the price in an open market, that is to say, 'market value'. Value can also be relative to other factors both rational and irrational, as well as wholly speculative.

 

There is also the concept of 'value in use' which can be different from the actual price. Typically this the value that old items we bought long ago still have us while they remain usable, even though they have no monetary value were we trying to sell them. Paradoxically something worth nothing maybe be quite valuable to the user, as would be the case with pixel tanks, for instance.

 

Normally, when trying to set a price on their products, companies would have to factor in manufacturing costs and marketing aspects. Firstly, they would want to maintain a solid profit margin, but another thing they would do is try to calculate at which output and price level they stand out to make the most. In the case of WG, most of the cost of producing tanks and maps goes into design, development and testing. The actual cost of running an 'assembly line' for them is negligible (mostly to do with the transaction costs of selling them in the Premium shop).

 

 



CmdRatScabies #57 Posted 19 May 2018 - 12:19 PM

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I have a suspicion that they've overdone the push to buy premium time/tanks etc. and that they now have a shortage of FTP players, hence showering everyone with credit boosters, XP boosters, Specials etc. similar to what they unsuccessfully did on the NA server.  I suspect what we will see in the premium ammo rebalance will be something that makes FTP more viable - too many good FTP games about at the moment that they have to compete with.

mpf1959 #58 Posted 19 May 2018 - 12:50 PM

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I hope it's not dying, or if it is at least not too soon, as I have only just started playing and I think it's great fun, and it whiles away many hours for me every day of the week!

IncandescentGerbil #59 Posted 19 May 2018 - 01:00 PM

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View Postmpf1959, on 19 May 2018 - 12:50 PM, said:

I hope it's not dying, or if it is at least not too soon, as I have only just started playing and I think it's great fun, and it whiles away many hours for me every day of the week!

Enjoy it whilst the fun lasts mate. I certainly did. Now I mostly play it because the Gf's TV choices are questionable at best.



ValkyrionX #60 Posted 19 May 2018 - 02:55 PM

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how do you say that wot is in decline? do you have data and information to be able to affirm it?




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