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Is WoT in Decline ? If so, Why ?


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Element6 #61 Posted 19 May 2018 - 03:26 PM

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View PostGerman_Dunc, on 19 May 2018 - 07:53 AM, said:

In pure business terms, as long as the revenue generated exceeds the cost of providing the product, it makes sense to keep it alive. 

 

The interesting thing to note now is the apparent shift in revenue dynamics: historically, WG always maintained that most of the game revenue came from occasional micro transactions from casual players buying gold to skip a grind or get silver. Next was premium account sales. Premium tanks were a long way down in third place (this is back when there were only 40 or so prem tanks in total)

 

For a grind based game, it's necessary to strike a balance between making the grind a challenge, making the reward worthwhile, and having an end point to the grind which brings about or opens up a new game option.

 

War Thunder is a classic case of a game being a bad grind - tedious levels of xp required, little benefit when you do complete a module grind, and absolutely no point in the endgame.

 

WoT used to have a fairly good balance - sure, there were some pure XP sinks, but on the whole it was challenging and rewarding to successfully grind to Tier X. Maybe spend a few dollar-pounds on free xp for track or a gun, and then play a ton of games in a slightly gimped Tier VIII prem to grind the credits for endgame. When all was done, you'd have your IS-7/E100/whatever, and you were ready for clan war, or latterly stronghold.

 

Now though... the xp and credit economy is totally borked. it's gone too far the other way.

 

XP boosters, which are given away like candy now, dramatically shorten the grind. Play Frontline for a few evenings and you've got the credits which previously would have taken weeks of dedicated prem play to generate. And with WGs lack of CW interest, along with big balance issues at X, why would you even bother getting to endgame? (I've unlocked and bought the 50B and 13 105 recently... played one game in the 105, and left it. Haven't even bothered retraining the crew for th 50B or put equipment and consumables on it).

 

This is where the game is showing signs of dying - something reinforced by the endless sales of premium tanks. WGs entire focus now is on high value DLC (effectively), and no longer on micro transactions.

 

Problem is that eventually people stop buying the prem stuff because there's actually little point to owning it - For a long time I was a fully paid up prem collector. Yet, even I've skipped over the PV, Skorp, and several others recently. 

 

If/when the prem tank sales start to dry up, then the game has a problem - because it'll be left with a borked economy, full of premium content, with no point to the endgame.

XP boosters take away some of the issues arising from splitting lines in two, where you need a fresh crew for the new line. It's a sneaky way to give incentives to get a premium crew trainer so that tank XP boosters can be used on the crew.

 

These boosters also narrows the crew gap between new and old players since a 2 perk crew is more "op" compared ro a 75% crew than a 5 perk crew is compared to a 2-3 perk crew, granted that players understand which perks are most useful.



ProudNoob #62 Posted 19 May 2018 - 07:12 PM

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Is WoT dying? Seems not that bad atm, but they definitly started to lose their player base: http://wot-news.com/stat/server/eu/norm/en 

 

As we can see from the diagrams, the peak is much lower then the past years and current online is also less then past. In my opinion, this is all because of the lack of innovation. Actually, they do not even need to be innovative as they have quiet idea sharing community. I do not know how many times the community said that the SPGs/Pre Ammo/OP-Unbalanced Vehicles/MM/RNG should be improved. They put some effort, but not much as they spammed Premium Tanks. 

 

This game is still unique in the online gaming industry. It still has much more potential. But, even after holy .... 8 years, devs still cannot understand the most important point: CHALLENGE and GLORY!

 

If you provide an environment which has balanced challenge and a glory for the succeded ones, that environment will survive. There are many titles doing this for a long time, especially CS.

 

First of all, the GLORY in WoT: sux! What is the glory?? Does it exist? Grinding a tier 10? Winning a CW? Golden League? How much a person can earn from WoT? Can he or she be famous? Where is the god damn eSport even after 8 years? Why there is no million dolar/euro prize pool? Do they even know how the other titles succeeded in eSport such as LoL/DoTA/CS/so on?

 

If you cannot promise a real GLORY to the community, the other promises can drag them, temporarily. Such as a fancy tier 10 CW Reward Premium Tank or tier 8 Premium Tank Marathons. 

 

And of the other major problem is, ofc not providing a fair/balanced CHALLENGE:

 

  • SPGs: Why the hell even after 8 years spgs still exists in the game? What is the purpose? Imagine, a player wants to play so hard this game and this can be easily ruined by enemy SPG clicker. He or she really wants to push the limits, but this gonna be punished by a click which comes from the sky. Is there any positive contribution to the gameplay? Is a SPG provides more challenge?
  • God Damn Pre Ammo: They are trying to balance the vehicles while this awkard Pre Ammo exists. How you gonna balance a TYPE 5 Heavy if everyone is spamming gold ammo? An Obj.216 can pen any tier 10 heavy frontally. Is this normal? Armor mechanics are totally pointless when the players start to take a shower with gold, actually that's happening almost in all random battles atm. (like a CW battle) Does this provide more challenge? Is it fair? Is this a positive feature according to the gameplay?
  • OP/Unbalanced Vehicles: I do not even want to say a single word for this. Definitly a disrespectful approach! "Here a new tier 10, entirely OP", people start to grind and then suddenly, "Ohhh sorry, we accept that it is an unbalanced vehicle and lets nerf it". How many times you have to use this disrespectful way to earn money from the players? Once or twice maybe OK! But, how many times for god sake! You Devs have almost 8 years experience and bringing a holy mother Obj.268.4 now?! Seriously?? And the worst disgusting approach is: https://worldoftanks.eu/tr/news/special-offers/tott-may-2018/ "Yea please try to get it before it is nerfed" GG guys!
  • MM is kinda better then it used to be, but still not enough. As the majority prefers to play high tiers nowadays, the poor low tiers are getting farmed more and more. There is almost no protection for the newbies. A seal clubber with a Hellcat against a 1K B experienced guy? The newbie will be succesfully encourged to keep playing; mission accomplished!
  • Also the low tier battles are totally garbage! Are you guys really crazy? Why the low tiers are the least attractive battles if you seeking new players!
  • What about RNG? Dispersion craziness, random troll number generator in every single parameter? Sometimes, it feels like you are not playing an arcade tank game, but a poker. I am quiet experienced player after 40K battles, but i do not guarantee that i can win 1vs1 battle against a newbie due to the Holy RNG. Imagine that Barcelone plays a match against a team from god knows where and the win chance of Barca is %65 smth. This is how it works in WoT. 

 

There are more things which causes troubles in the aspect of the fair challenge and positive gameplay. Hopefully, one day, a dev who is familiar with the game realizes the aforementioned points and this title will become one of the best in the history.



PowJay #63 Posted 19 May 2018 - 07:18 PM

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I used to play every single day unless I really could not. The main reason was the daily x2/x3 etc. bonus. Every day was about a grind towards a new module or tank. As time goes by, grinds start to take weeks rather than days, and I have run out of motivation to climb tiers on many lines- for several reasons.

 

1. I am not a particularly good player at tier VIII upwards. Despite playing some very good vehicles very well on the way up the tiers, my general skill ceiling appears to be around tier VII. I don't quite understand why.

 

2. Many of the tier X are not worth grinding for- especially when we consider what we have to endure on the way there.

 

3. Common sense. I don't want to grind and grind and grind only to lose WR and lose credits all for the glory of saying that I have a tier X that I can't play well- even if it is good.

 

I have already abandoned the following lines (by which I mean that I have ZERO intention of continuing them). I have played each line up to the following tier/tank but may not even have researched the next tank in line.

 

UK. HTs abandoned at tier VII, BP. I need 30,000 Free XP for the next tank. Heavy TDs abandoned after playing AT2. I am undecided on the second TD line. I still own the Elite Achilles but have not moved on for many months.


USA. Pershing sold, not elite, about two years ago after owning it twice. Auto-loader line halted at the T69. LT line abandoned completely. TD line currently at T28 Prot. Non-turret line abandoned but T28 was researched from the Prot.


USSR. SPGs abandoned after S-51 and SU-8. Object 268 and 704 both sold. KV-3 sold and this line presently not in my sights. IS-M line not even being considered. LTs abandoned at LTTB after LT changes.

 

France. TD line abandoned after AMX AC 46. HT line abandoned, needing LOADS of XP, at tier VIII. SPG line ended at tier VI. Not bothered about meds but may consider in the future.

 

Germany. ALL HT lines abandoned at tier VII. I only have the Tiger I from German HTs. I sold the E75 upgraded but not elite. LT line abandoned and Cold War tanks not in my sights. SPGs abandoned after abysmal performance in the GWP (20 battles only/5 wins). Original TD line stopped at tier VIII Ferdi- (sold JPII).

 

China. I have the Type T-34 and Type 58 and haven't bought another Chinese tank in over three years, I would think. I will try the TDs but only when discounted.

 

Japan. HTs abandoned. I hated the O-I Exp and hated the O-I even more. I sold the O-I and am presently just enjoying the Type 95. I have the STA-1, but I am not enjoying it much (especially in tier X battles all the time)

 

Czechoslovakia. Currently coming to the end of the T-34-100 grind and doing quite well considering how unpopular it is. We will have to see what happens here.

 

Italy. Waiting for discount on tier IV (slows grinding and saves credits).

 

Sweden. Still grinding. Not enjoying the tier VII TD much and still not played the tier V Med, but still hoping to move forward with both lines. Time will tell.

 

So what is my motivation to play? I have to say that it is, predominantly, daily missions. I have HUNDREDS of Personal Reserves that I rarely use and Premium Consumables that I only keep for my (little-played) higher tiers. And yet, a reward is something to play for.

 

My other motivation is Campaign missions. I have got to the Object, but I am not going to get it. I am just activating, playing and hoping for the best. If I ever get this tank it will be a miracle.

 

As frustrating as this game can be, my main motivation is the hope that I can- from time to time- have one of those really awesome battles such as feature on my replays. They might not be that often, but it is something. My main frustration at the moment is the 3-5-7 MM and the prevalence of bottom-tier battles. For this reason, tier VII and particularly tier VIII is far less attractive to play. Another factor in my decision to largely abandon high-tier grinding.

 

I suppose that I much reach a conclusion that I still enjoy WoT, but on MY terms- which means playing my good tanks, with (mostly) good crews at the tiers I do enjoy and where I can make the most positive impact. If this means playing mostly tier IV to VI with some tier III and VII, then so be it. It does mean no spending on the game though as I do invest some money into grinding, but WG can get stuffed now.


Edited by PowJay, 19 May 2018 - 07:18 PM.


avr7002 #64 Posted 20 May 2018 - 08:23 AM

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Not all disappointed players will quit wot. I for example play still a lot, but spend no money on wot anymore. Even more. I dont care anymore even in tier X battles about arties, about TD-s, about OP tanks. Just pure fun in tier X, free of charge. Ahead Obj 4 or Strv 103B? No problem, I will die and pick up next tank. What I will do if I just hate new OP tanks and dont play it myself? Just my yesterday. 39 High tier battles with wn8 1443  and 38% wr. My 121 in 3-5-7  MM is just wasted X slot. Sure 1443 wn 8 is not high, for top tier tank, but we talking 38% wr.  Wr is out of control, until wot fix tier X  tanks. Until then I just training my crews and try new tactics, free of charge, free of any concern about stats. Just free fun.



Randathamane #65 Posted 20 May 2018 - 12:30 PM

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Is WOT in decline? Yes. Empirically, the player base is smaller and shrinking.
Why? Well, matchmaking. It's terrible. People get frustrated and leave.
For example, i'm back after 9 months out. I had 3 major updates to install totaling over 7gig of data. I thought i'd try it once more because, hey who knows, maybe the kinks have been ironed out.
Log in for the first time, navigate through the new features. My Lv4 tank starts a random battle, First to die, one shot at 42 seconds in from a T6 tank destroyer.
Second battle, fire round after round against the side of a T6, bounce, ricochet, non pen... One shotted by another T6 i hadn't spotted.
Ok, lets change tank. Jump in the T7 British tank, two shotted by a T9 tank destroyer.

Uh, huh. Ok Bye.
Catch you all on War Thunder.

Out of the last 3 games I've played (and no, you don't get any more of my time WOT) i was killed within 2 minutes on each battle, fighting against vehicles i had no chance against because the tiers i was forced to fight were well outside my skill range. I know i'm not exactly great at the game- i'd go as far as to say i'm kinda bad at it. But this isn't a case of me being a Noob, this is a case of a total mismatch.

This is the view of your potentially new paying customer; i'm leaving for a game that gives me a fair chance. I agree with the statement that "not all will get frustrated and leave", but a sizable portion do.

scouse_in_the_house #66 Posted 20 May 2018 - 01:10 PM

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Probably arty and the stress it puts people under, it's one of the least fun aspects of the game.  Horrible to play horrible to play against, frontlines have shown the way forward with consumables, take this class out and you'll see people flooding back.
I'm in a steam community for a former wot clan, over a hundred players that used to play wot, when ever the game comes up in conversation it's the same reason people left arty and gold ammo.  

Agent_327 #67 Posted 20 May 2018 - 01:22 PM

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I'm not so sure that's in decline. There's still a lot playing it at primetime. Surely it have overreached a lot of ppl that really can't be bothered with learning all the weak points and strength/weaknesses with the different tanks. Perhaps it needs to get even smaller when all the ppl who doesn't understand what random means, are opposed to +2 match maker and arty and have left. Then the rest of us can just enjoy a very technical 3'rd person shooter without the need for lightening reflexes in peace. ;)

 

WoT is by far the best PC game I have ever played!

 


Edited by Agent_327, 20 May 2018 - 01:22 PM.


Slyspy #68 Posted 20 May 2018 - 01:31 PM

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Decline is to be expected due to the age of the product. 

jabster #69 Posted 20 May 2018 - 01:42 PM

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View PostSlyspy, on 20 May 2018 - 12:31 PM, said:

Decline is to be expected due to the age of the product. 

 

I’m quite surprised it’s still as popular as it is after all this time. If you look at the multitude of online games that have come and gone, relatively quickly, WoT is still going strong even though it’s past it’s peak. Will we ever see a WoT 2?


Edited by jabster, 20 May 2018 - 01:42 PM.


Jigabachi #70 Posted 20 May 2018 - 02:45 PM

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View Postjabster, on 20 May 2018 - 01:42 PM, said:

I’m quite surprised it’s still as popular as it is after all this time. If you look at the multitude of online games that have come and gone, relatively quickly, WoT is still going strong even though it’s past it’s peak.

It's easily accessible, not p2w/p, the the many problems the game has only rise to the surface when you are already deep into it and apart from that, they put tons of money into advertisements. In fact, WoT is the only "bigger" game that I remember seeing so much ads for, be it on the internet, TV or even in magazines.

 

Block Quote

Will we ever see a WoT 2?

Hard to answer. Right now I actually doubt it, because, unlike in 2010, they have quite the competition now. So setting up a completely new game in between all the other titles (not only the tank ones) might be a lot harder now.

I guess that until the WoX games fully sink into oblivion, they might just start a few side projects like they already did. And then... no idea.



Se1ryu #71 Posted 20 May 2018 - 02:56 PM

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Well i've stopped playing when I found myself 2 years ago, credit starved after unlocking few tier X. Grinding credits is extremely tedious, first you grind tank then you grind credits, and I cant be bothered with this double grind mechanic anymore.

Brodie_ #72 Posted 20 May 2018 - 05:57 PM

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Yes!

 

Why is it failing?

Because WG refuse to admit their mistakes!

They use financial arguments, etc to justify not changing premiums.

The reality though is that they are out to make money.

 

Though the core of the game is very very good.

It will go for years still!

Though it could go for even more years, far stronger! 

If they really created a balance, that players could trust.

Rather than them constantly breaking the balance.

With money grabbing premiums that no one really cares about!



crnakoza #73 Posted 20 May 2018 - 06:36 PM

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View Postjabster, on 20 May 2018 - 01:42 PM, said:

 

I’m quite surprised it’s still as popular as it is after all this time. If you look at the multitude of online games that have come and gone, relatively quickly, WoT is still going strong even though it’s past it’s peak.

 

Because Wargaming nailed a goldmine. The general idea behind the game's mechanics is extremely appealing, and it's tanks. Too bad they're shitting all over it with each attempt to broaden the market.

 

View Postjabster, on 20 May 2018 - 01:42 PM, said:

 Will we ever see a WoT 2?

 

Doubt it. Because if there would be an interest for WoT 2, then there would still be an interest in WoT 1 and it wouldn't be dead in the first place. When this game dies, the hardcore bunch will be long gone enraged by wargaming's business practices, and then all the accumulated casuals will switch over to the next fad of the day and that will be it.

 

In any such game player base can be roughly divided into two, loyal addicted longtime players who've been with the game for a while and really know its every obscure detail, and casuals who are not really interested, but they want to play something, and all their friends are playing this already, so they join the bandwagon, but they never really learn nor they really care. Unfortunately the latter greatly outnumber the former, and they're the ones who are being pandered to. I'm not talking about WoT specifically, I've been around for quite some time, and seen this cycle a couple of times first-hand.

 

And then the game begins reinventing itself, typically with a big 'revolutionary' update, which still doesn't raise an interest of casuals (they still play, but still don't care) but totally infuriates the long time players who then start to dissipate, and down the spiral we go...



Spurtung #74 Posted 21 May 2018 - 04:44 AM

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View PostProudNoob, on 19 May 2018 - 08:12 PM, said:

First of all, the GLORY in WoT: sux! What is the glory?? Does it exist? Grinding a tier 10? Winning a CW? Golden League? How much a person can earn from WoT? Can he or she be famous? Where is the god damn eSport even after 8 years? Why there is no million dolar/euro prize pool? Do they even know how the other titles succeeded in eSport such as LoL/DoTA/CS/so on?

WGL got scratched and there's nothing there to replace it yet. By the looks of it, by the time they figure out what to do, there won't be any truly skilled players left.

 

View PostRandathamane, on 20 May 2018 - 01:30 PM, said:

Is WOT in decline? Yes. Empirically, the player base is smaller and shrinking.
Why? Well, matchmaking. It's terrible. People get frustrated and leave.
For example, i'm back after 9 months out. I had 3 major updates to install totaling over 7gig of data. I thought i'd try it once more because, hey who knows, maybe the kinks have been ironed out.
Log in for the first time, navigate through the new features. My Lv4 tank starts a random battle, First to die, one shot at 42 seconds in from a T6 tank destroyer.
Second battle, fire round after round against the side of a T6, bounce, ricochet, non pen... One shotted by another T6 i hadn't spotted.
Ok, lets change tank. Jump in the T7 British tank, two shotted by a T9 tank destroyer.

Uh, huh. Ok Bye.
Catch you all on War Thunder.

Out of the last 3 games I've played (and no, you don't get any more of my time WOT) i was killed within 2 minutes on each battle, fighting against vehicles i had no chance against because the tiers i was forced to fight were well outside my skill range. I know i'm not exactly great at the game- i'd go as far as to say i'm kinda bad at it. But this isn't a case of me being a Noob, this is a case of a total mismatch.

This is the view of your potentially new paying customer; i'm leaving for a game that gives me a fair chance. I agree with the statement that "not all will get frustrated and leave", but a sizable portion do.

I wonder if you can see you too are to blame in your little story.

 

 

 

 

 

View Postcrnakoza, on 20 May 2018 - 07:36 PM, said:

And then the game begins reinventing itself, typically with a big 'revolutionary' update, which still doesn't raise an interest of casuals (they still play, but still don't care) but totally infuriates the long time players who then start to dissipate, and down the spiral we go...

We had that already, they called it Rubicon. Quite the fitting name, really, but it takes more than a river to make a Caesar.

The backlash was brutal.


 

Edited by NickMustaine, 21 May 2018 - 10:21 AM.


Captain_Kremen0 #75 Posted 21 May 2018 - 09:28 AM

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View PostRandathamane, on 20 May 2018 - 11:30 AM, said:

Is WOT in decline? Yes. Empirically, the player base is smaller and shrinking.
Why? Well, matchmaking. It's terrible. People get frustrated and leave.
For example, i'm back after 9 months out. I had 3 major updates to install totaling over 7gig of data. I thought i'd try it once more because, hey who knows, maybe the kinks have been ironed out.
Log in for the first time, navigate through the new features. My Lv4 tank starts a random battle, First to die, one shot at 42 seconds in from a T6 tank destroyer.
Second battle, fire round after round against the side of a T6, bounce, ricochet, non pen... One shotted by another T6 i hadn't spotted.
Ok, lets change tank. Jump in the T7 British tank, two shotted by a T9 tank destroyer.

Uh, huh. Ok Bye.
Catch you all on War Thunder.

Out of the last 3 games I've played (and no, you don't get any more of my time WOT) i was killed within 2 minutes on each battle, fighting against vehicles i had no chance against because the tiers i was forced to fight were well outside my skill range. I know i'm not exactly great at the game- i'd go as far as to say i'm kinda bad at it. But this isn't a case of me being a Noob, this is a case of a total mismatch.

This is the view of your potentially new paying customer; i'm leaving for a game that gives me a fair chance. I agree with the statement that "not all will get frustrated and leave", but a sizable portion do.

So much here i'll do it by points.

1 - yes, but with a big enough player base the decline will be slow with a fair bit of leeway to do something about it.

2 - 7GB is frankly sweet FA in broadband terms so stop whining.

3 - 2 shotted by +2 tier tanks? yes - if you let them. This can happen to both good and bad players. Mostly bad ones and average ones like me. It's an LTP issue not the game.

4 - War Thunder. ok bye.

5 - potentially paying customer? Game isn't pay to win i'm afraid, its pay to have a bit better chance of doing well for yourself given the random 29 others.

 



crnakoza #76 Posted 21 May 2018 - 03:07 PM

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View PostSpurtung, on 21 May 2018 - 04:44 AM, said:

We had that already, they called it Rubicon. Quite the fitting name, really, but it takes more than a river to make a Caesar.

The backlash was brutal.

 

I wasn't really thinking of Rubicon. Rubicon was never pushed, and what was pushed live was quite cut down that people mocked the "featurefull" update. All in all it was collection of crazy cash-in ideas that were shot down.

 

It's with this 1.0 patch that game went on a very different path (not exactly with 1.0 release, it started some time before, but it culminated with 1.0). And this time stuff is actually being pushed live. Meta is seriously skewed. WoT is finally at 1.0, hitboxes are worse than ever before, tier 10 games are exercise in pain, more autoloaders and russian bobmobiles. And players are too weary of fighting WG, they're just letting it slide.

 

Like it always happens, the most profound changes are those that slowly and quietly creep in. Not some revolutionary ideas that come over night.



Element6 #77 Posted 21 May 2018 - 03:19 PM

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View PostSpurtung, on 21 May 2018 - 04:44 AM, said:

WGL got scratched and there's nothing there to replace it yet. By the looks of it, by the time they figure out what to do, there won't be any truly skilled players left.

Do you really think so?

 

I think you might be severely underestimating what reside in huge pools of humans.



Spurtung #78 Posted 21 May 2018 - 05:59 PM

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View PostElement6_TheSprout, on 21 May 2018 - 04:19 PM, said:

Do you really think so?

 

I think you might be severely underestimating what reside in huge pools of humans.

 

I really do think that. If WGL was still happening, you'd see a huge difference compared with 3 years ago, undoubtedly.

brisha #79 Posted 21 May 2018 - 06:15 PM

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MM has killed the game for me, I rarely play now and I was a big spender in the days gone by. Now however the last time I spent any money was on some Xmas boxes and it was a while before that too.

 

The won't be getting any more either as long as the persist with this 3/5/7 which means 90% bottom tier, 95% if in toon.


 

The constant stream of OP tanks has really created the problem, they can't give a Defender a lot of top tier games because it's just to dam OP and T6 are just cannon fodder for them, this is the case also for T8's against type5's etc.


 

The solution is simple, not as good as balancing all those stupid tanks but simple just the same, an even split in a +1 MM. Some time's 8-7, sometimes 7-8 a fair share of that MM and it would improve the game over night.



Freetoplay_KV2 #80 Posted 21 May 2018 - 11:43 PM

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    07-10-2017

So I nudge arta near water in frontline mode and he reverses into it drowning himself, I spend rest of battle trying to win and kill enemy and tell him to pick another vehicle and play the game. He spends rest of battle typing in chat how he send replay to wargaming how he spends money on game therefore should be able to get me banned and doing nothing to try to win game. Basically being a complete snowflake about a 20 second inconvenience, for something that is actually impossible for me to do , you cannot TK in frontlines mode.

 

And Wargaming actually listened to his ticket bought his whining and got me ban for a week.

 

What do you think guys is the game in decline? Do I need to say any more? I dont think so.






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