Jump to content


Frontline suggestions


  • Please log in to reply
25 replies to this topic

brevlada #1 Posted 18 May 2018 - 09:18 PM

    Lance-corporal

  • Player
  • 13405 battles
  • 70
  • [WAAT] WAAT
  • Member since:
    04-21-2013

Frontline is a great addition to the game, it fixes tier 8 matchmaking, and shows how broken OP the Defender and the Skorpion G is. There are some improvements to be made if you decide to release this mode again in the future:

  1. ARTY, there are artillery strikes and airstrikes, there's no need for SPGs as well, it ruins the experience for everyone,
  2. Improve the map balance, in the C zone it is VERY easy to spawncamp the attackers, they have to go through chokepoints that can easily be covered by the defending team, and zone A and D are too hard to reset, once the attackers are in there the zone is lost because the defenders can't do anything about it.
  3. Combat reserves, they are great, but not all of them are used, like the smoke screen, what is the point of it? Why hide when you can just boost the crew by 10% of anyone around you, and shoot your way out of the situation?
  4. Player spread, it is way to common for people to just leave the zone they spawn in to fight another one, often the A zone is left with 5 defenders because the rest went to the B zone, how to fix that? You've tried by not allowing more than 12 people to spawn in each lane, but that doesn't matter as long as you can still just drive into it, you really like your invisible walls and this would be a great use for them, if more than 12 players from a team is in 1 zone, more can't spawn there, OR DRIVE THERE due to invisible walls based on player count.

I'm sure there are more improvements that could be made, these were the ones that I could think of while writing.

 

This mode is amazing, but could be SO MUCH BETTER if some things changed.



Dorander #2 Posted 18 May 2018 - 10:30 PM

    Major

  • Player
  • 18184 battles
  • 2,709
  • Member since:
    05-07-2012

View Postbrevlada, on 18 May 2018 - 08:18 PM, said:

 

  1. ARTY, there are artillery strikes and airstrikes, there's no need for SPGs as well, it ruins the experience for everyone.
  2. Combat reserves, they are great, but not all of them are used, like the smoke screen, what is the point of it? Why hide when you can just boost the crew by 10% of anyone around you, and shoot your way out of the situation?
  3. Player spread, it is way to common for people to just leave the zone they spawn in to fight another one, often the A zone is left with 5 defenders because the rest went to the B zone, how to fix that? You've tried by not allowing more than 12 people to spawn in each lane, but that doesn't matter as long as you can still just drive into it, you really like your invisible walls and this would be a great use for them, if more than 12 players from a team is in 1 zone, more can't spawn there, OR DRIVE THERE due to invisible walls based on player count.

 

1) Removing the artillery combat reserves is far more effective and reasonable, as you can have SPGs in the battle which are an existing mechanic and have their typical issues and restrictions, whereas artillery combat reserves are completely ridiculous. You don't remove a years old core mechanic just 'cause a special mode added something silly. Oh wait, this wasn't just a generic artywhine was it? :arta:

 

2) I agree that smokescreen is underused, engineer probably is as well. The problem of these two consumables is that they are very niche, and once all six bases are capped, they lose their functionality. However they are nice to have on tanks specifically designed to go for caps or interrupts, and doing so is great for ranking up. I frequently try to cap with a light tank running Engineer, Smoke Screen and a third consumable of my choice, get in the base, get in cover, and smokescreen the capzone depending on timer. It's very effective, just niche and prone to being ignored as a tactic due to how narrowminded players typically get ("must do damaaaaaage!")

 

3) I think the ability to change zones and apply more pressure on a zone where you're strong, forcing the enemy to also relocate thereby taking off pressure from another zone, is a tactically sound idea and should be encouraged, not limited. Problems occur when 30 players fail to behave in any coherent manner (which was to be expected) but also when farming damage leads to nearly as great rewards on a loss as it does on a win, thereby reducing the incentive to play tactically and win. Many players will do so on basic principle, but many also won't. If victory and achieving tactical objectives was more rewarded, I'd expect the instant zone-shifting to change as well, it's mostly a problem just after spawn (especially attackers from B to A... just close that stupid pass already, or force them into a significant detour).



mjs_89 #3 Posted 19 May 2018 - 12:06 AM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 5194 battles
  • 343
  • [95137] 95137
  • Member since:
    08-16-2017

View Postbrevlada, on 18 May 2018 - 09:18 PM, said:

Frontline is a great addition to the game, it fixes tier 8 matchmaking, and shows how broken OP the Defender and the Skorpion G is. There are some improvements to be made if you decide to release this mode again in the future: I love to meet Skorpions in this mode, nothing easier to pen on the whole map. As for Defender, I "rarely" see those and usually there is an opportunity to drive around them and take them out. Even in the LTs I play almost exclusively. Imo all tanks available have at least some use in FL, certainly more than in random battles, that's for sure.

  1. ARTY, there are artillery strikes and airstrikes, there's no need for SPGs as well, it ruins the experience for everyone, There is 1 arty per zone, seems fair to me. If everyone is airstriking anyways the one additional arty is not that bad imo. Also, arty is great for resetting cap as defenders.
  2. Improve the map balance, in the C zone it is VERY easy to spawncamp the attackers, they have to go through chokepoints that can easily be covered by the defending team, and zone A and D are too hard to reset, once the attackers are in there the zone is lost because the defenders can't do anything about it. Agreed, C is tough for attackers. Not only because of spawncamping but also the repair circle, wich is placed in the most open area possible. As for resetting, people just need to yolo-reset if the situation calls for it. I almost always go for a reset if I can, gives lots of points for ranking up (and thus additional xp) too. Also, you can reset A pretty easily from the ridgeline in the east of the zone, so I don't exactly see your problem here. I'll give you D though, resetting multiple attackers without dying is almost impossible.
  3. Combat reserves, they are great, but not all of them are used, like the smoke screen, what is the point of it? Why hide when you can just boost the crew by 10% of anyone around you, and shoot your way out of the situation? Smokescreen can be very helpful for capping, saved the game a couple times for me, even though I'll admit I've never used it myself.
  4. Player spread, it is way to common for people to just leave the zone they spawn in to fight another one, often the A zone is left with 5 defenders because the rest went to the B zone, how to fix that? You've tried by not allowing more than 12 people to spawn in each lane, but that doesn't matter as long as you can still just drive into it, you really like your invisible walls and this would be a great use for them, if more than 12 players from a team is in 1 zone, more can't spawn there, OR DRIVE THERE due to invisible walls based on player count. No, invisible walls are a bad idea. The whole point of FL is that you can flank as much as you want and help other flanks out. For example, if I am attacking and my zone is capped, I'll usually drive to a flank on the same stage (like A to B for example) and help there. Also, if defending driving into a already captured zone after a few minutes gives you rear shots and a free arty kill, and thats always nice.

I'm sure there are more improvements that could be made, these were the ones that I could think of while writing.

 

This mode is amazing, but could be SO MUCH BETTER if some things changed.

 



Spurtung #4 Posted 19 May 2018 - 12:10 AM

    Major General

  • Player
  • 63632 battles
  • 5,900
  • [GW-UP] GW-UP
  • Member since:
    07-05-2013

View Postbrevlada, on 18 May 2018 - 10:18 PM, said:

Combat reserves, they are great, but not all of them are used, like the smoke screen, what is the point of it? Why hide when you can just boost the crew by 10% of anyone around you, and shoot your way out of the situation?

 

Funny thing is that you pass judgement while being completely ignorant.

 

Smoke screen acts like a temporary bush: you can spot while in it, you can shoot when pulling away from it. You also get assisted damage from everyone doing damage behind the cover of your smoke screen. Somewhat more complex than just "hide", right?

 

Let me guess, you never noticed you can change its orientation (just like the airstrike's). You wouldn't believe how many times while paying arty I've seen airstrikes hitting the front of tanks first...



Frlo10611 #5 Posted 19 May 2018 - 08:20 AM

    Private

  • Player
  • 19803 battles
  • 7
  • [SWEPH] SWEPH
  • Member since:
    09-09-2011
Yes yes yes Frontline is a realy great addition to the game it the way to te future!!

 

Pl keep it.



Homer_J #6 Posted 19 May 2018 - 08:34 AM

    Field Marshal

  • Beta Tester
  • 28712 battles
  • 30,018
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    09-03-2010

View Postbrevlada, on 18 May 2018 - 09:18 PM, said:

  1. Player spread, it is way to common for people to just leave the zone they spawn in to fight another one, often the A zone is left with 5 defenders because the rest went to the B zone, how to fix that? You've tried by not allowing more than 12 people to spawn in each lane, but that doesn't matter as long as you can still just drive into it, you really like your invisible walls and this would be a great use for them, if more than 12 players from a team is in 1 zone, more can't spawn there, OR DRIVE THERE due to invisible walls based on player count.

If you are going to do that then you may as well have three separate battles, one of the things I like is that you have this great expanse of battlefield you can roam around.

 

As for combat reserves, are they even needed?  Would the game mode not work just on core WoT mechanics?

 

Arty in this mode finally feels like it can be used to it's full potential instead of being forced into the same corners all the time.



Search_Warrant #7 Posted 19 May 2018 - 08:39 AM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 27190 battles
  • 6,145
  • [LEWD] LEWD
  • Member since:
    02-08-2011

View PostSpurtung, on 18 May 2018 - 11:10 PM, said:

 

Funny thing is that you pass judgement while being completely ignorant.

 

Smoke screen acts like a temporary bush: you can spot while in it, you can shoot when pulling away from it. You also get assisted damage from everyone doing damage behind the cover of your smoke screen. Somewhat more complex than just "hide", right?

 

Let me guess, you never noticed you can change its orientation (just like the airstrike's). You wouldn't believe how many times while paying arty I've seen airstrikes hitting the front of tanks first...

 

Kinda.. smokescreen reduced viewrange while inside it by a decent chunk. (25%?) while bushes (if sitting inside it) you dont lose any viewrange.

 

I see it more a hindrence than anything. putting it down near far away TD's to use would cause people to know something is there, viewrange reduction is very bad due to an already big map. so while you get spotted inside the smoke. you recieve no benefits and are blind as a bat getting shot at and cant spot them back.


Edited by Search_Warrant, 19 May 2018 - 08:42 AM.


Bennie182 #8 Posted 19 May 2018 - 05:09 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 53686 battles
  • 1,597
  • [WGL-A] WGL-A
  • Member since:
    03-13-2012

View Postbrevlada, on 18 May 2018 - 09:18 PM, said:

  1. ARTY, there are artillery strikes and airstrikes, there's no need for SPGs as well, it ruins the experience for everyone.
    -like said before: arty has been part of the game for years, though I hate it even more then in randoms. I got hit by an SU-14-2 for 530 without being penned. totally balanced.
    -the artillery strikes and airstrikes are totally unbalanced. sometimes I get hit for 750 by them. on the other hand, when I use them myself I should be happy if I even damage a sitting duck, for 150 max.
  2. Improve the map balance, in the C zone it is VERY easy to spawncamp the attackers, they have to go through chokepoints that can easily be covered by the defending team, and zone A and D are too hard to reset, once the attackers are in there the zone is lost because the defenders can't do anything about it.
    C is easy to defend, unless you have players on the team with a brain. Usually I spawn there with total useless kids and enemy still takes it over, sometimes being the FIRST zone that the enemy takes over! A is difficult to reset, but not impossible. D is even harder, but all caps acquire a push by the defenders.
  3. Combat reserves, they are great, but not all of them are used, like the smoke screen, what is the point of it? Why hide when you can just boost the crew by 10% of anyone around you, and shoot your way out of the situation? smoke screen helps for defenders not to be seen on specific positions, or attackers when capping a zone. I have seen it being used only once.
  4. Player spread, it is way to common for people to just leave the zone they spawn in to fight another one, often the A zone is left with 5 defenders because the rest went to the B zone, how to fix that? You've tried by not allowing more than 12 people to spawn in each lane, but that doesn't matter as long as you can still just drive into it, you really like your invisible walls and this would be a great use for them, if more than 12 players from a team is in 1 zone, more can't spawn there, OR DRIVE THERE due to invisible walls based on player count. this is hard to respond to. I like being free to move to wether zone I want. If I have complete morons in my zone I just leave, because I just waste my time getting killed without support or not getting any damage at all. In the situation you propose I would never be able to move from the 1st and 3rd lane, when the middle is 'full' (with 12) players. This means I might not be able to leave a zone before a bombardment comes, because I am not allowed to switch sideways and lose my tank because of this stupid rule.
    You lose a zone for a reason, usually because trashplayers sit in the back, doing nothing to defend, or just rush in a stupid moments and die without any use. This means, other players leave the zone, like me, because they don't want to keep playing with those trash players.

 



shikaka9 #9 Posted 19 May 2018 - 05:16 PM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 59920 battles
  • 166
  • [M4FUN] M4FUN
  • Member since:
    02-27-2013
to many broken stuff in this mode, so a huge NO

Search_Warrant #10 Posted 19 May 2018 - 06:06 PM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 27190 battles
  • 6,145
  • [LEWD] LEWD
  • Member since:
    02-08-2011

View Postshikaka9, on 19 May 2018 - 04:16 PM, said:

to many broken stuff in this mode, so a huge NO

 

Only broken thing i see is typical russian bias T44 spam. autoloaders all over the place and Light Tanks have an easier time but they really crumble under any pressure (just like randoms) seriously WG. you cant even pen side of the god dam Turret Box things from the side reliably with 175pen. fix LT's!

mjs_89 #11 Posted 19 May 2018 - 08:48 PM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 5194 battles
  • 343
  • [95137] 95137
  • Member since:
    08-16-2017

View PostSearch_Warrant, on 19 May 2018 - 06:06 PM, said:

 

Only broken thing i see is typical russian bias T44 spam. autoloaders all over the place and Light Tanks have an easier time but they really crumble under any pressure (just like randoms) seriously WG. you cant even pen side of the god dam Turret Box things from the side reliably with 175pen. fix LT's!

 

The main tanks I play in FL are 3 LTs, the HWK 12, WZ-132 and B-C 12t. Only the B-C has problems with the turrets, so I just load an APCR-clip and keep shooting. Or I shoot enemy tanks to help my teammates take the turrets down, either way is fine by me.

OnceBittenTwiceShy #12 Posted 19 May 2018 - 09:15 PM

    Lance-corporal

  • Player
  • 43194 battles
  • 62
  • Member since:
    09-22-2014
By all means, keep Frontline alive - for more tiers. We could switch to tier 7 / 9 next month. Without Premium vehicles, the player base might be a little more competent. Too many people seem to be running around aimlessly, not really knowing what this mode is about. I, for one, wouldn't divide the teams into attackers / defenders. Why not have 3 bases for every team to cap and the objectives in the middle ? 

scouse_in_the_house #13 Posted 19 May 2018 - 09:19 PM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 1019 battles
  • 123
  • Member since:
    12-01-2014
Point 1. Is a good one, there's no need for both arty and the consumables one of the two should go.  Ideally keep the consumables they help break camps far better than regular arty and offer the opportunity to see how the game would work without that broken class.

Dorander #14 Posted 19 May 2018 - 09:21 PM

    Major

  • Player
  • 18184 battles
  • 2,709
  • Member since:
    05-07-2012

View Postscouse_in_the_house, on 19 May 2018 - 08:19 PM, said:

Point 1. Is a good one, there's no need for both arty and the consumables one of the two should go.  Ideally keep the consumables they help break camps far better than regular arty and offer the opportunity to see how the game would work without that broken class.

 

And we're full circle back to a generic artywhine.

 

Godwin's.. err, WG GameplayForum's Law strikes again.



Bennie182 #15 Posted 19 May 2018 - 09:25 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 53686 battles
  • 1,597
  • [WGL-A] WGL-A
  • Member since:
    03-13-2012

View PostSearch_Warrant, on 19 May 2018 - 06:06 PM, said:

you cant even pen side of the god dam Turret Box things from the side reliably with 175pen. fix LT's!

I have the problem with 200mm pen-guns and higher also.



Spurtung #16 Posted 19 May 2018 - 09:28 PM

    Major General

  • Player
  • 63632 battles
  • 5,900
  • [GW-UP] GW-UP
  • Member since:
    07-05-2013

View PostSearch_Warrant, on 19 May 2018 - 09:39 AM, said:

 

Kinda.. smokescreen reduced viewrange while inside it by a decent chunk. (25%?) while bushes (if sitting inside it) you dont lose any viewrange.

 

I see it more a hindrence than anything. putting it down near far away TD's to use would cause people to know something is there, viewrange reduction is very bad due to an already big map. so while you get spotted inside the smoke. you recieve no benefits and are blind as a bat getting shot at and cant spot them back.

 

Guess what, when playing arty I can deploy smokescreen in a pretty efficient way and farm some assisted that way.

scouse_in_the_house #17 Posted 19 May 2018 - 09:31 PM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 1019 battles
  • 123
  • Member since:
    12-01-2014

View PostDorander, on 19 May 2018 - 09:21 PM, said:

 

And we're full circle back to a generic artywhine.

 

Godwin's.. err, WG GameplayForum's Law strikes again.

 

Is it though? It feels like overkill to me especially when you are the focus of 1 or 2 arty and multiple consumables.  1 or the other should go, both are a detriment to gameplay together.

 

 



Dorander #18 Posted 19 May 2018 - 11:54 PM

    Major

  • Player
  • 18184 battles
  • 2,709
  • Member since:
    05-07-2012

View Postscouse_in_the_house, on 19 May 2018 - 08:31 PM, said:

 

Is it though? It feels like overkill to me especially when you are the focus of 1 or 2 arty and multiple consumables.  1 or the other should go, both are a detriment to gameplay together.

 

 

 

I don't particularly disagree that it isn't overkill. Like I mentioned before, the artillery strike consumables should go.

 

What makes it a generic artywhine is that people who just want to see artillery gone, will always conclude that it's better for the artillery class to go and the consumables to stay, and they use phrases like calling it a broken class and experimenting with a scenario where they are removed. For example, they might state:

View Postscouse_in_the_house, on 19 May 2018 - 08:19 PM, said:

Ideally keep the consumables they help break camps far better than regular arty and offer the opportunity to see how the game would work without that broken class.

Emphasis mine.



scouse_in_the_house #19 Posted 20 May 2018 - 12:12 AM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 1019 battles
  • 123
  • Member since:
    12-01-2014

View PostDorander, on 19 May 2018 - 11:54 PM, said:

 

I don't particularly disagree that it isn't overkill. Like I mentioned before, the artillery strike consumables should go.

 

What makes it a generic artywhine is that people who just want to see artillery gone, will always conclude that it's better for the artillery class to go and the consumables to stay, and they use phrases like calling it a broken class and experimenting with a scenario where they are removed. For example, they might state:

Emphasis mine.

How terrible of me to have an opinion different to yours, but in my opinion I don't think it offers much to the game instead is a detriment to it.  Perhaps they could look at how the game works without it in sandbox, personally i think frontline is the ideal opportunity as it has a ready made alternative in the consumables.  



Dorander #20 Posted 20 May 2018 - 09:43 AM

    Major

  • Player
  • 18184 battles
  • 2,709
  • Member since:
    05-07-2012

View Postscouse_in_the_house, on 19 May 2018 - 11:12 PM, said:

How terrible of me to have an opinion different to yours, but in my opinion I don't think it offers much to the game instead is a detriment to it.  Perhaps they could look at how the game works without it in sandbox, personally i think frontline is the ideal opportunity as it has a ready made alternative in the consumables.  

 

If you want to whine about artillery, do it in the artillery whine discussion thread. You can present your opinion there. The problem isn't that you can't have your opinion, the problem is that the whinging has been getting tiresome for years and claiming you are discussing frontline while what you are really doing is just complaining about artillery again (which is the point I was making, not that you're not allowed to dislike artillery) is disingenuous.

 

Had you only stated that artillery plus artillery strike consumables is too much death from above, you would've had a valid point, but you just had to tip your hand and show your agenda.






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users