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Is the three tier game designed to make more profit for WG?


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Iridiumalloy #1 Posted 20 May 2018 - 09:34 AM

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Clearly three tier games are unbalanced. Whilst lowest tier tanks in a three tier game can play important roles (eg spotting), the primary role of the bottom tier is as cannon fodder.

WG claim to try to balance the game. As three tier games are not balanced, the question is why? Are three tier games designed to encourage people to play higher tiers? Obviously the best tier to play is tier 10, as you will always be at the top and therefore have an advantage. However, we all know that playing tier 10 is very expensive in ammunition and repairs. This means that proportionally less of your games will make a profit in Silver. For the majority, this means that playing tier 10 involves buying Gold. So it seems to me that the three tier game is designed to drive you to play higher tiers and so buy proportionally more Gold and so make more profit for WG.

"But everyone gets to be top tier, in turn." I hear you say. Well, it is true that all tanks will occasionally be top tier (except tier 10 which is always top tier). However, certain tiers seem to be penalised. Tier 4 is rarely top tier, and is NEVER top tier in a three tier match. Tier 4 is never put with tier 2.

It seems to me that there is a distinct bias towards higher tiers being top tier more frequently, especially in three tier games. It does not have to be this way, it is a deliberate choice on the part of WG. It would be quite easy to ensure that all tiers play equal numbers of games in top, middle and bottom position. Better still, reducing games to a maximum of two tiers would make it fairer for all players and be easier to ensure that each side is properly balanced. There would be many fewer complaints about bad matchmaking. So, is this choice to have three tier games, and have them biased towards higher tiers being at the top more often, simply driven by the desire to encourage people to play higer tiers and so, on average, buy more Gold?

Certainly, WG need to make a profit. However, do they really need to do that by deliberately making the game unbalanced?



PowJay #2 Posted 20 May 2018 - 09:35 AM

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Neg WR player complains about MM.

 

Nothing new to see here. Move along.

 

And yes, we know the current MM sucks.



Dorander #3 Posted 20 May 2018 - 09:39 AM

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The working theory most people have is that the tier system is designed to push people to grind up in the tiers so in they end they are "Tier 10, always top tier!"... and also the tier where the game is most expensive to maintain in an FTP model, so that likely ends up stimulating sales. So yeah, most people here will probably agree because it's not a new insight.

HundeWurst #4 Posted 20 May 2018 - 09:54 AM

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Yes it is. Gameplay wise, considering the current balance of the game, that spread does not make any sense.

 

But thats more or less an other secret. Nothing new, nor a need to talk about. They want it to be like that. And since money is the devine for WG that wont change either.



SovietBias #5 Posted 20 May 2018 - 10:45 AM

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Yes.



Jigabachi #6 Posted 20 May 2018 - 10:55 AM

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Generally speaking, it's there to create depth and variation - and to motivate people to move up the tiers. Mostly the dumb ones, who then rush up the tiers instead of learning how to play, because they somehow think that getting a higher tier makes things easier, or that is a goal of the game to get to the top.*

 

That system would work without any problems, if the game was properly balanced and would offer more ways for bottom tier tanks to contribute.

 

 

*) Oh... almost missed the irony.


Edited by Jigabachi, 20 May 2018 - 10:57 AM.


Balc0ra #7 Posted 20 May 2018 - 10:57 AM

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View PostIridiumalloy, on 20 May 2018 - 09:34 AM, said:

Tier 4 is rarely top tier, and is NEVER top tier in a three tier match. Tier 4 is never put with tier 2.

 

Because tier 4 can't be top tier in a +2 game. As tier 1 to 3 only have +1 MM now with the new system. So tier 4 can only be top tier in a 5-10 game with tier 3. Just as tier 5 can only be top tier vs tier 4 in a 5-10 game. As let's be honest, most guns on tier 2 have 30 to 40 pen. And that's not ideal vs the 70+ effective armor most tier 4 have. The only tank on tier 2 to ever face tier 4, is the old T2 Light premium.

 

Worst gap in a +2 game was the old +2 MM on tier 3. As the difference between a tier 3 and 5 were way bigger then say an tier 8 vs 10 tier for tier. As half of the tier 3's could not even pen the KV-1 rear plate or stock turret with gold ammo on a high roll even, and even less so stock. Thus why it was removed.

 

View PostIridiumalloy, on 20 May 2018 - 09:34 AM, said:

Clearly three tier games are unbalanced. Whilst lowest tier tanks in a three tier game can play important roles (eg spotting), the primary role of the bottom tier is as cannon fodder.

 

Depends. Some tanks are like that even as top tier as they are from an old meta and just sit with the power creep still. And +1 MM won't even help them. Some are worse off in an equal tier game too. It's why I don't play my CDC and IS-6 anymore, as pure tier 8 games are the worst for them with all the new tier 8 armor of late vs +1 or 2 that I want to have in the tbh.

 

My lights, meds and TD's don't mind +2. And they can still do their role, or other roles just fine. HT's less so.  HT's are cannon fodder in +2 more so then other classes. As again.. the current meta has left them. Old tier 6 & 7 HT's more so after the likes of the Defender, VK 100.01 & Patriot came about. Tiger P and the M6 to name a few are less then ideal vs new tier 8 armor atm.

 

Low tiers don't need anything like 5-10 as they are all +1 as is. Nor do I see the point of 5-10 on any tier tbh. Tier 8 is worse off after 3-5-7 was added. And it was better before it got there. And WG did remove tier 12 MM for a reason once, now it's more or less back causing the same issues. And equal tier games on tier 8 and X are just terrible for randoms with the current meta. But 4 to 7 still needs something to limit top tier guns not to scare off new players early on. But 3-5-7 is not that.

 

 

 

 

 



LepiSale #8 Posted 20 May 2018 - 11:47 AM

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View PostJigabachi, on 20 May 2018 - 10:55 AM, said:

Generally speaking, it's there to create depth and variation - and to motivate people to move up the tiers. Mostly the dumb ones, who then rush up the tiers instead of learning how to play, because they somehow think that getting a higher tier makes things easier, or that is a goal of the game to get to the top.*

 

From my experience, you can't learn how to play tier X by playing tier III, or tier VI for that matter.



Enforcer1975 #9 Posted 20 May 2018 - 12:05 PM

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View PostLepiSale, on 20 May 2018 - 11:47 AM, said:

From my experience, you can't learn how to play tier X by playing tier III, or tier VI for that matter.

Many players like OP prove otherwise. 

 

OP claims it's easier in high tier tanks but has botlike performance across all tiers.


Edited by Enforcer1975, 20 May 2018 - 12:05 PM.


ThinGun #10 Posted 20 May 2018 - 12:12 PM

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If that's the business model (and that is a huge 'IF;), then it's not working very well.  Huge swathes of players don't advance to Tier 10.

 

I have to say, I dispute your concept of the unbalanced MM - it balances out, over time.  And the very idea that low tier tanks are just cannon fodder is plainly wrong. I've often ended up as Top Gun and/or High Calibre from bottom or middle tier.

 

 

View PostLepiSale, on 20 May 2018 - 11:47 AM, said:

From my experience, you can't learn how to play tier X by playing tier III, or tier VI for that matter.

 

I agree.  I've been playing in a few T10 matches lately, having recently bought my first T9 tank.  It's not like anything else I've experienced - I probably won't be very good at it for a long time.  Got to unlearn a lot of bad habits.
 

Enforcer1975 #11 Posted 20 May 2018 - 12:57 PM

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View PostThinGun, on 20 May 2018 - 12:16 PM, said:

 

I agree.  I've been playing in a few T10 matches lately, having recently bought my first T9 tank.  It's not like anything else I've experienced - I probably won't be very good at it for a long time.  Got to unlearn a lot of bad habits.

Tier 9-10 gameplay is completely different from mid tiers. 

But i still stand by point that it's not good for most players to rush to the top since you rely on skilled crews and experience you will never have when you yolo your way to any tier 10 tank.

I have seen so many situations where a full health bob doesn't want to take a hit from a oneshot enemy and freezes while the other guy has the initiative during the whole encounter. 

Such situations only happen when you don't have an idea what you are doing all the time....pressing w and lmb because it goes vrooom and booom doesn't help. 



Iridiumalloy #12 Posted 20 May 2018 - 01:01 PM

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View PostEnforcer1975, on 20 May 2018 - 11:05 AM, said:

Many players like OP prove otherwise. 

 

OP claims it's easier in high tier tanks but has botlike performance across all tiers.

 

Just goes to show how little you know. I don't even have legal mods let alone botting. I play the game for fun and in my own style. You may not like it but that's your problem :)

Enforcer1975 #13 Posted 20 May 2018 - 01:21 PM

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View PostIridiumalloy, on 20 May 2018 - 01:01 PM, said:

 

Just goes to show how little you know. I don't even have legal mods let alone botting. I play the game for fun and in my own style. You may not like it but that's your problem :)

 

Haha nice joke....looks like you aren't the only one who plays for fun and has that unique playstyle. 



Agent_327 #14 Posted 20 May 2018 - 01:28 PM

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The tier spread are there to make battles more diverse. But also to make you be in that situation where you can't do anything to your opponent and either have to do something else or die, hopefully learning from the experience. There is a common misconception that you can't do anything to a +2 tank but in reality you can in most cases. :great:

 



Jigabachi #15 Posted 20 May 2018 - 02:51 PM

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View PostLepiSale, on 20 May 2018 - 11:47 AM, said:

From my experience, you can't learn how to play tier X by playing tier III, or tier VI for that matter.

That's right. tX gameplay is a bit different and that's hard to learn in the lower tiers. But there you can learn how to use your keyboard and your mouse without looking at it. You can learn about maps. You can learn about basic tactics. In other words: The basics.

That's why 9 out of 10 players who rush up the tiers turn into human bots.



Dorander #16 Posted 20 May 2018 - 03:36 PM

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View PostJigabachi, on 20 May 2018 - 01:51 PM, said:

That's right. tX gameplay is a bit different and that's hard to learn in the lower tiers. But there you can learn how to use your keyboard and your mouse without looking at it. You can learn about maps. You can learn about basic tactics. In other words: The basics.

That's why 9 out of 10 players who rush up the tiers turn into human bots.

 

You forgot the most important thing you can learn before tier X: the mechanics. Though granted, don't try to learn those at tier III. Mechanics truly start to come into play at tier 5-6.

 

And then at tier 10 they break again, 'cause everyone's spotting at 445m unless you're behind bushes and deathstars fire premium shells at you... but that's another story.



Quintuss #17 Posted 20 May 2018 - 04:33 PM

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View PostThinGun, on 20 May 2018 - 12:12 PM, said:

If that's the business model (and that is a huge 'IF;), then it's not working very well.  Huge swathes of players don't advance to Tier 10.

 

I have to say, I dispute your concept of the unbalanced MM - it balances out, over time.  And the very idea that low tier tanks are just cannon fodder is plainly wrong. I've often ended up as Top Gun and/or High Calibre from bottom or middle tier.

 

That depends a lot on what tank you play - i don't mind being lowtier in the Lorr 40t : no armour means i don't care if the sheel has 150 pen or 300 - it is autobounce or pen for both. At the same time the gun has enough Alpha and Clip-size coupled with pen to hurt even tier X (from the side)

 

On the other hand there are tanks like the AMX 65t where i allways wonder how to do anything as lowtier with no mobility, no armour, no view range and a "not so impressive" gun. Every lowtier game in that turd is hoping an enemy screws up AND my gun doesn't troll me.



peekakilla #18 Posted 20 May 2018 - 04:45 PM

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wot is a business, everything is designed to make more profits.



mtnm #19 Posted 20 May 2018 - 05:03 PM

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WG said one of their goals is to give the players a sense of "alpha dog" from time to time.

 

I believe it also covers the balancing problems. Playing only against same tier or +-1 would make it clear that some tanks are better and others are... "fun and challenging".


Edited by mtnm, 20 May 2018 - 05:04 PM.


ThinGun #20 Posted 20 May 2018 - 07:52 PM

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View Postpeekakilla, on 20 May 2018 - 04:45 PM, said:

wot is a business, everything is designed to make more pro

That's not actually the point of a business.  Businesses frequently try to make less profit but higher turnover.  More profit = more tax = not necessarily the best way of spending money.




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