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Player quality low or something else?


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Knight_Zao #1 Posted 21 May 2018 - 07:39 AM

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OK, so last night I was having a few games with a friend of mine who has been out of the game for a while, (before we go further he uses XVM and i dont, so i wouldnt have known the following unless he pointed it out) and he suddenly says "there are alot of poor players about lately?" so i ask him why he would say that and he informs me that most of the players (at tier 9 and 10) are between 450 and 800. Now when i used to have XVM i can remember the higher tiers being full of 2k+ all the time (or thats how it felt). So how can the player base at higher tiers have fallen in "skill, "quality" whatever you want to call it (ok i know WN8 isnt the be all and end all of player skill and that it is very rough guide but lets be honest that if your wn8 is below 1000 then on average you are not doing even your own HP in damage, and also there is no other perfect statistic that can be used instead to gauge a players skill).

Now all this got me thinking about World of warplanes and what they did to increase the player base for players to not have massive queue times, they added ALOT of bot accounts. Someone even create a mod that told you who was a bot, there was a little star next to their name, i had some games where i was the ONLY player with 11 bots on both sides.

Call me a conspiracy theorist but could this also be what is happening in WoT ? to keep the appearance of high player numbers and queue times low, could WG be adding bots accounts?

Has anyone else who uses XVM noticed this at all, lets not turn this isnt a "Dont use XVM debate thats not what this thread is about, Thanks



Babbet_1 #2 Posted 21 May 2018 - 07:53 AM

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Thank you for the clarification - I have been wondering what that little red star was next to my name! I thought it was because I was driving a Russian tank!   :)

Jigabachi #3 Posted 21 May 2018 - 08:25 AM

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Sooo... what exactly would qualify a player as a bot?


Sfinski #4 Posted 21 May 2018 - 09:45 AM

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Too many reserves given out. Helps baddies to fail their way to t10.

 

@Jiga peopke who win less than being afk? 


Edited by Sfinski, 21 May 2018 - 09:47 AM.


stoob1969 #5 Posted 21 May 2018 - 09:55 AM

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Funny - I had the same experience last night - very strange game play, nothing I can put my finger on, but some very suspect stuff going on... glad it wasn't just me Lol :) 

Homer_J #6 Posted 21 May 2018 - 09:56 AM

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View PostKnight_Zao, on 21 May 2018 - 07:39 AM, said:

 

Now all this got me thinking about World of warplanes and what they did to increase the player base for players to not have massive queue times, they added ALOT of bot accounts. Someone even create a mod that told you who was a bot, there was a little star next to their name, i had some games where i was the ONLY player with 11 bots on both sides.

 

You don't need a mod to tell you who the bots are in WoWP, the bots all have names starting in a capital letter, with the rest in lowercase, no special characters and always a normal Christian name (John, Alexander, Dimitri, ....)

Dorander #7 Posted 21 May 2018 - 09:58 AM

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You're right.

 

I'm calling you a conspiracy theorist. The picture you're using for your account doesn't help.



OIias_of_Sunhillow #8 Posted 21 May 2018 - 10:02 AM

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View PostHomer_J, on 21 May 2018 - 08:56 AM, said:

 

You don't need a mod to tell you who the bots are in WoWP, the bots all have names starting in a capital letter, with the rest in lowercase, no special characters and always a normal Christian name (John, Alexander, Dimitri, ....)

 

A bit like 'Peter', from the sub-continent trying to convince me my pc needs attention.

PervyPastryPuffer #9 Posted 21 May 2018 - 10:02 AM

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You wonder why there are more tomatoes in higher tiers? I can tell you why.

 

Those that were once in low tiers, newbs...they have been playing long enough to get to tier 10.

 

Because eventually, no matter how good or bad of a player you are, you'll progress in this game...and this, THIS right here...is the main issue with this game, that's started to slowly deteriorate the overall experience for everyone else.

 

Tiers should be locked behind a player's skill rating. Sure, let them research the next tank in the tree, but stop them from buying it until they are good enough to fit the expected skill level, the amount of knowledge needed to understand what they're doing and how it influences the game for them, and those around them.

 

Unfortunately, some people never learn...or play so rarely, they can't possibly focus on playing well, or don't even care how they play, because they just play for fun. That's all fair and fine, since WG wouldn't be so successfull with WoT if the game was too hard for half the playerbase...

 

It's been said before and I'll say it again; implement skill-based MM, or make Ranked Battles for tier 8-10 tanks as an expanded mode over Ranked Seasons, by keeping Rankeds for tier 8-10 tanks as a permanent game mode where you can grind through the last few tiers to the top of the tree together with players who actually like to play seriously. By having the mode be "Ranked", it's another way to reward good players, and to strive for being the best of the best.



Snake_Keeper #10 Posted 21 May 2018 - 10:13 AM

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People have been encouraged to go forward with plentiful reserve handouts, and a lot of the folks on the higher end of the skill scale have either quit WoT, or moved back to the lower tiers cause they can't bother with the credit farming/bad balancing anymore. Just yesterday there was a fellow in general chat asking which is the best, JPanther II, or Ferdinand. Look up statistics, less than 47% winrate with 300 or less avg dmg in any tank they play, all the way up to tier 7 after 12k games.

 

I somewhat doubt Wargaming has the bots they've been talking about for WoT ready. Just simply the common denominator moving up cause of the reserve spam enables them to do that even if their performance is so bad they get less than 200xp a game.



8126Jakobsson #11 Posted 21 May 2018 - 10:17 AM

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View Poststoob1969, on 21 May 2018 - 09:55 AM, said:

Funny - I had the same experience last night - very strange game play, nothing I can put my finger on, but some very suspect stuff going on... glad it wasn't just me Lol :) 

 

Yesterday was out of the ordinary indeed. I played 26 games and won 22 of them. Now what are the odds of that.

Sirebellus #12 Posted 21 May 2018 - 10:22 AM

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View PostTankyouverymuch2, on 21 May 2018 - 10:02 AM, said:

 

Tiers should be locked behind a player's skill rating. Sure, let them research the next tank in the tree, but stop them from buying it until they are good enough to fit the expected skill level, the amount of knowledge needed to understand what they're doing and how it influences the game for them, and those around them.

 

 

Firstly of course this will never happen as it is a commercial game so commercial interests will always be put first by WG - If people like me who are 'average' at the game are willing to pay cash to enable me to work my way up the tech trees then they aren't going to stop me doing it because they want my money.

Secondly, if T9 and T10 are already mostly filled with 'bots' (obviously this excompasses both Artificial Intelligence players (if such a thing really exist) and low skill players) then if they are taken out of the game exactly who is going to be left at 9 and T10  ? and would it be in WG's commercial interest to reduce the numbers at top tier to this ?

Thirdly, 'expected skill level' - Exactly who is going to decide that ?, what 'player's skill rating' are you going to use ?



PervyPastryPuffer #13 Posted 21 May 2018 - 10:24 AM

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View Post8126Jakobsson, on 21 May 2018 - 10:17 AM, said:

Yesterday was out of the ordinary indeed. I played 26 games and won 22 of them. Now what are the odds of that.

 

Well as far as I can see you played the Type 62 and Jumbo a lot, both tanks which perform well above their tier level. Combine that with a bit of luck with the mm and here we are. :great: Good on ya though. Seems you had fun yesterday, something I can't say for myself...

Jigabachi #14 Posted 21 May 2018 - 10:37 AM

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View PostSfinski, on 21 May 2018 - 09:45 AM, said:

@Jiga peopke who win less than being afk? 

Could be it, but I insist on some details and explanations. It's pretty much THE most overused and thus meaningless term in the game.



RetroCh1cken #15 Posted 21 May 2018 - 12:45 PM

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View PostKnight_Zao, on 21 May 2018 - 06:39 AM, said:

OK, so last night I was having a few games with a friend of mine who has been out of the game for a while, (before we go further he uses XVM and i dont, so i wouldnt have known the following unless he pointed it out) and he suddenly says "there are alot of poor players about lately?" so i ask him why he would say that and he informs me that most of the players (at tier 9 and 10) are between 450 and 800. Now when i used to have XVM i can remember the higher tiers being full of 2k+ all the time (or thats how it felt). So how can the player base at higher tiers have fallen in "skill, "quality" whatever you want to call it (ok i know WN8 isnt the be all and end all of player skill and that it is very rough guide but lets be honest that if your wn8 is below 1000 then on average you are not doing even your own HP in damage, and also there is no other perfect statistic that can be used instead to gauge a players skill).

Now all this got me thinking about World of warplanes and what they did to increase the player base for players to not have massive queue times, they added ALOT of bot accounts. Someone even create a mod that told you who was a bot, there was a little star next to their name, i had some games where i was the ONLY player with 11 bots on both sides.

Call me a conspiracy theorist but could this also be what is happening in WoT ? to keep the appearance of high player numbers and queue times low, could WG be adding bots accounts?

Has anyone else who uses XVM noticed this at all, lets not turn this isnt a "Dont use XVM debate thats not what this thread is about, Thanks

 

I'll tell you they are very real, why? just look at my stats, yes that's the best I can play in this game..

 

View PostTankyouverymuch2, on 21 May 2018 - 09:02 AM, said:

Tiers should be locked behind a player's skill rating. Sure, let them research the next tank in the tree, but stop them from buying it until they are good enough to fit the expected skill level, the amount of knowledge needed to understand what they're doing and how it influences the game for them, and those around them.

An easier fix which is more fun for everyone is probably just to have a mm that balance out the matches with equal skilled opponents, have the ''random'' battles be like a side mode for the people playing together in platoons and are different skilled.. or just people wanting to meet better skilled opponents or the other way around.



signal11th #16 Posted 21 May 2018 - 12:59 PM

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View PostKnight_Zao, on 21 May 2018 - 06:39 AM, said:

OK, so last night I was having a few games with a friend of mine who has been out of the game for a while, (before we go further he uses XVM and i dont, so i wouldnt have known the following unless he pointed it out) and he suddenly says "there are alot of poor players about lately?" so i ask him why he would say that and he informs me that most of the players (at tier 9 and 10) are between 450 and 800. Now when i used to have XVM i can remember the higher tiers being full of 2k+ all the time (or thats how it felt). So how can the player base at higher tiers have fallen in "skill, "quality" whatever you want to call it (ok i know WN8 isnt the be all and end all of player skill and that it is very rough guide but lets be honest that if your wn8 is below 1000 then on average you are not doing even your own HP in damage, and also there is no other perfect statistic that can be used instead to gauge a players skill).

Now all this got me thinking about World of warplanes and what they did to increase the player base for players to not have massive queue times, they added ALOT of bot accounts. Someone even create a mod that told you who was a bot, there was a little star next to their name, i had some games where i was the ONLY player with 11 bots on both sides.

Call me a conspiracy theorist but could this also be what is happening in WoT ? to keep the appearance of high player numbers and queue times low, could WG be adding bots accounts?

Has anyone else who uses XVM noticed this at all, lets not turn this isnt a "Dont use XVM debate thats not what this thread is about, Thanks

 

It's probably the game reaping the harvest of it being continually dumbed down by them developers. When you have to learn you learn or don't , basically the game has continually told the player base "don't worry you don't need to learn we will supply what you need for you"  thus why you still get people making the same mistakes game after game after game and not learning anything from it or being supplied idiotic no skill tanks. The developers aren't really interested in a "experienced and skilful player base" they are interested in a large player base.

Edited by signal11th, 21 May 2018 - 01:01 PM.


Fighto #17 Posted 21 May 2018 - 01:58 PM

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View PostJigabachi, on 21 May 2018 - 09:37 AM, said:

Could be it, but I insist on some details and explanations. It's pretty much THE most overused and thus meaningless term in the game.

 

If your afk for every game statically you should win 43% of your games but yet you see players with  40% and even lower with 10000's of games. So they are a bigger hindrance to the team when playing so they must be team killing or blocking etc.

Fighto #18 Posted 21 May 2018 - 02:00 PM

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View PostRetroCh1cken, on 21 May 2018 - 11:45 AM, said:

 

I'll tell you they are very real, why? just look at my stats, yes that's the best I can play in this game..

 

An easier fix which is more fun for everyone is probably just to have a mm that balance out the matches with equal skilled opponents, have the ''random'' battles be like a side mode for the people playing together in platoons and are different skilled.. or just people wanting to meet better skilled opponents or the other way around.

 

No that is not the best you can do, try being at the keyboard now and again. Are you honestly telling me that in an e25 you only pen 1 shot every 2 games?????

PervyPastryPuffer #19 Posted 21 May 2018 - 02:03 PM

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View PostFighto, on 21 May 2018 - 02:00 PM, said:

No that is not the best you can do, try being at the keyboard now and again. Are you honestly telling me that in an e25 you only pen 1 shot every 2 games?????

 

I guess he doesn't fighto hard enough.

Lord_Barbarozza #20 Posted 21 May 2018 - 02:29 PM

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I am not rerolling so my overall Wn8 is very low, but my recent Wn8 is much better. Reached 2900 Wn8 lately during one evening.

 

It seems there are lots of players not learning game mechanics properly. They do not watch youtube or Twitch streaming to improve gameplay.

 

First 500 battles I just shot knowing very little about armor and penetration and tactics. Then I spent the next 2000 battles trying to get smart, and the last 1800 battles trying to fix my bad stats. Got from 44% winrate to soon 49% and I am still trying to have more good games than average games.






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