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Perfecting Preferential Premiums


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cluelessnoob #2941 Posted 30 May 2018 - 08:09 PM

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I have a query: when I buy a premium tank how does the transaction work? Do I buy the vehicle or do I buy an equivalent amount of gold which is then instantly used to get the vehicle? I seem to remember my son's xbox had a similar setup but it was in the t&c's and if you didn't know about it then you would never notice as the purchase just gave you the item and you never saw the gold transaction.

 

The reason I ask is because if I am buying gold to instantly get a premium tank then WG can change anything they like because I didn't actually buy the tank. I, like many others, just click 'accept' and have never read the entire terms and conditions. If this clause is in there I don't see how any legal action is possible.



Alacaster #2942 Posted 30 May 2018 - 08:17 PM

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So I pay you money and you lie to me, to make more, plus you ruin the tanks that I have paid for. Dont you see that you screw with the paying customer base. I am so disappointed. Just fix the broken match making system.



Insert_Insult #2943 Posted 30 May 2018 - 08:26 PM

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View Post_kiss_my_axe_, on 30 May 2018 - 07:09 PM, said:

I have a query: when I buy a premium tank how does the transaction work? Do I buy the vehicle or do I buy an equivalent amount of gold which is then instantly used to get the vehicle? I seem to remember my son's xbox had a similar setup but it was in the t&c's and if you didn't know about it then you would never notice as the purchase just gave you the item and you never saw the gold transaction.

 

The reason I ask is because if I am buying gold to instantly get a premium tank then WG can change anything they like because I didn't actually buy the tank. I, like many others, just click 'accept' and have never read the entire terms and conditions. If this clause is in there I don't see how any legal action is possible.

 

if you buy a premium tank from the WG premium shop, it is advertised in the currency you are registered with, so if in the UK they advertise a premium tank for £35:00 then you are purchasing the virtual vehicle and not the amount of gold to buy it if you were to get it from the Tech tree. UK law states the sale price has to be clear on what you are paying for, I assume EU rules are similar. 

 

just to clarify.



_Distephano_ #2944 Posted 30 May 2018 - 08:32 PM

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This "preferential MM problem" is all BULLSHlT and WG is lying to us (like always).

Everyone knows by now than MM is rigged and there is a higher chance to be on bottom list- not only while playing Tier 8 tanks- but on all tiers....

 


Edited by _Distephano_, 30 May 2018 - 08:32 PM.


iKnewIT #2945 Posted 30 May 2018 - 08:41 PM

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View PostOld_Danish_Greybeard, on 30 May 2018 - 06:22 PM, said:

"QB, I'm sorry for the length of this explanation, and I'm sorry to throw some math at you, but this data isn't lying. Wargaming is. Blatantly.
 
All data presented is from www.vbaddict.net from the last 30 days, with tanks with at least 1,000 battles.
Total tanks in battles: about 12,465,220
Total Tier 8 tank appearances: 3,719,187
Total Tier 8 Preferential MM Premium (PMM) tank appearances: 176,185
Total Tier 8 Premium tank appearances: 1,793,644
Total Tier 8 standard tank appearances: 1,749,358
Tier 9 tank appearances: 1,892,439
Tier 10 tank appearances: 1,263,886 All together,
 
Tier 8 Preferential Matchmaking (PMM) tanks make up about 1.4% of the total tanks played. Add in the tier 7 PMM tanks, and you're still just shy of 2% of the total tanks played. In fact, only two PMM tanks at any tier even made the top 100 played tanks, the SuperPershing (#65, 48K battles) and the E25 (#73, 47K battles).
 
The KV-5, Wargaming's apparent problem child, ranks #398 with just over 6K battles played, or about 0.05% of the total.
 
Wargaming's excuse is a complete fabrication. If 1.4% of the tanks played are disrupting the matchmaking, there's a bigger underlying problem with the matchmaking.
 
I suspect that the problem with matchmaking is that 29% of the tanks that enter a battle are tier 8. Only 15% are tier 9, and only 10% are tier 10. The 3/5/7 matchmaking model fits this perfectly.
 
There are twice as many tier 8 tanks played as there are tier 9 and 10 combined. Tiers 6 and 7 are 14% and 13%, respectively. The root problem with matchmaking would appear to be economics, both in-game and real-world. Tier 8 premium tanks are the most profitable, and thus, the most often played. There are more tier 8 tank appearances than any other tier, and more than half of these appearances are in premium tanks. Not coincidentally, there are 102 available tanks at tier 8, 50 at tier 9, and 56 at tier 10.
 
Of these 102 tier 8 tanks, 56 are premium tanks. You read that correctly. There are the same number of tier 8 premium tanks as there are tier 10 tanks, and 6 more than there are tier 9 tanks. It's no wonder that there are so many more games played at tier 8. The horrible economics at tiers 9 and 10 force players to use tier 8 premium tanks to remain profitable overall. Why are there so many tier 8 premiums in-game? Look at all the specials in the premium store. Every week since 1.0 launched, it seems like there's been a different deal on a tier 8 premium. I haven't kept a close enough watch to be sure. The biggest real money makers for WG are tier 8 premiums, because the biggest credit earners for us are tier 8 premiums
 
 Sorry, Wargaming, but your excuse just doesn't hold water."

 

The huge quantity of tier 8 tanks in Random only makes that they are even more times in the bottom lines in 3/5/7 tier 10 battles, in 5/10 tier 9 battles and have more one level tier 8 battles than tanks of other tiers.

 

Sorry for reposting....

But the main problem is templates' system itself.

As You can see below, changing of frequance of templates can only change how many times You would be in one tier battles and how many times You would be in the middle of 3/5/7 template, but proportion betfween being on top and being in the bottom would stay the same.

Because of quantity of tier 8 tanks these proportions for them are even worse than in these samples.

 

View PostiKnewIT, on 30 May 2018 - 01:17 PM, said:

And one more thing for those who knows how to use calculator. ;)

Let's say there are equal amount of tier 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10 tanks players per some time.

And there are 60% 3/5/7 setup, 30% 5/10 setup, and 10% one tier battles without variations (2/4/9, 3/12 and others, I mean, which have even less top tier tanks).

 

In that conditions, when playing with tier 8 tank You will be:

1. 10% in 1 tier battles;

2. 22% on TOP (3/15*0,6+5/15*0,3);

3. 20% in the middle (5/15*0,6);

And, SURPRISE ;)

4. 48% in the BOTTOM (7/15*0,6+10/15*0,3)

of a list. :P

And it's always be so because of 3/5/and 5/10

You will be TWICE more times in the BOTTOM than on TOP.

----------------------------------------------------

 

And it won't change very much if You mix up the order of 3/5/7 and 5/10 templates.

(You may count how it would be with 60% 5/10, 30% one tier and 10% 3/5/7 by Yourself, I hope)

 

View PostiKnewIT, on 30 May 2018 - 01:48 PM, said:

I did it myself.

With 60% 5/10, 30% one tier and 10% 3/5/7 we have:

 

1. 30% in 1 tier battles;

2. 22% on TOP (5/15*0,6+3/15*0,1);

3. 3,3% in the middle (5/15*0,1);

And, one more :P SURPRISE ;)

4. 44,7% in the BOTTOM (10/15*0,6+7/15*0,1)

of a list. :P

 

Is it much more better??????

 

To be very clear it's not so simple, because there are not equal amounts of players with different tier tanks at some moment and overall.

And percentages 60%, 30%, 10% I took only for a sample, just to show priorities.

 

But anyway, these simplified samples clearly show, that being so many times in the bottom of a battle list after 9.18, and other problems (many "tier 12" battles for tier 10 tanks, PMM, etc.) is ONLY because of templates' system itself and 3/5/7 AND 5/10 templates as a part of it.

 

So don't the **** blame -2/+2 because of the problems of templates' system, please.

You are looking at wrong direction.

 

Sorry but I repeat it one more time.

I am sure that proportions of diferent tier tanks in Random before 9.18 was almost the same as they are now.

But there was no such problems with MM, so we have them ONLY because of templates' system.


Edited by iKnewIT, 30 May 2018 - 10:58 PM.


ShadowRocker #2946 Posted 30 May 2018 - 08:53 PM

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i payed about 36 uk pounds for my tanks each will  i get that back in gold?around twelve thousand gold each for t8 and a little less for lower tiers?? no? thats right if i am not happy i can pay MORE for another tank which sucks.These tanks have been neglected and if you take away one of the main selling points you should compensate me and buff my neglected tank not expect me to pay more...:( not a happy day in WOT)

 

 

 

 

 



iKnewIT #2947 Posted 30 May 2018 - 08:55 PM

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View Postevilchaosmonkey, on 30 May 2018 - 07:17 PM, said:

 

Problem here is that the influence of all preferential MM tank battle button clicks is actually around 65% and not 1.5%.

 

I know, as I drew the same conclusion as Matt on Saturday morning and posted.

 

After a few more coffees and some more maths, I concluded that each time a preff MM clicks battle, there are 29 other tanks influenced in how the MM puts them in a game and from the tier spreads on vbaddict it results in about 65% of tier 7 through to 9 battle button clicks being impacted by the pref MM games.  Maths is approximate as it will depend on the percentage of each MM template you see, how many pref MM tanks are in the same game etc. etc. etc.

 

So yes the 1.5% amount is right, but the influence they have on other tanker's MM is far larger.

This does not excuse WG using the 3/5/7 spread.  All they have to do for pref MM tanks is grab more Tier 8 tanks to fill the particular match instead of Tier 9 and most of the problem goes away.

 

EDIT:  and I guess most people would be happy being in top or same tier in tier 8 games.  I know I would.  So perhaps a solution is to give pref MM tanks +/- 0 tier spread.  They'd sell more tanks that way.

 

Nope, to be in one level tier 8 battle is not good for so called tier 7.5 tank.

Besides, giving any non standard level of battles for PMM would not make calculations easier. Right? Especialy when one tier battle is the last thing current MM tries to make.

But... somehow MM w/o templates' system before 9.18 was doing this job better, don't You think?

 

Sorry for off-topic, but I've just remembered words of mine old colegue.

He was saying: 'Don't try to fix something that's not broken'...... (I mean MM before 9.18).


Edited by iKnewIT, 30 May 2018 - 11:18 PM.


Tembo_Kadoko #2948 Posted 30 May 2018 - 09:12 PM

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i'm gonna not write anything new, but just wanted to add/register my disappointment to WG. I like preferential matching making, their statement doesn't make sense, i'm happy to wait in the queue to get a better balanced battle (why not just add an option to wait longer if you want in options menu?), i liked that i didn't have to fight tier 10's in pref tier 8's, and if there dead set on making these changes i'd like my money back with interest, not gold, or another tank without perf matching making, that's why i bought 'em, real money! I've got a shed load of these:-

Panther M10

Pz.kpfw.B2 740 (f)

Stug IV

E25

Valentine II

Matilda IV

CHurchill III

SU-85I

T14

I'm really gutted about this why no consultation? This sucks, very disappointed, and reasons don't make sense. Don't you want my custom WG? Will be very cautious in future regarding any purchases from WG. I know its just pixels on a screen but I've really enjoyed World of Tanks. I also miss being able to talk to other team, i know there was some idiots, but there some really lovely moments to, why not make it an opt in option, with and ability to ban repeat abusive committers/ position revealers?



Rimsplitter #2949 Posted 30 May 2018 - 09:18 PM

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I just played WoT for the first time in five days.  I played 16 battles at tier 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10, mostly in standard tanks that I'm grinding out.  I was top tier in 0% of the battles.  Zero percent; i.e. never.  I had three games that were same tier, including in my tier 10 tank.  I wasn't even top tier in a tier 10 tank.

 

We all know that this is not because of PMM tanks.  It's because the MM doesn't work at all from the players' point of view because it's no fun never to be top tier.  If WG are short-sighted then it's great from their point of view because they think this farcical situation forces us to buy more premium time and gold.  It doesn't, it made me spend the last week playing other games.  This game is no fun.

 

Fix the effing matchmaker and stop messing us all about.



Flint_74 #2950 Posted 30 May 2018 - 09:27 PM

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View PostiKnewIT, on 30 May 2018 - 07:41 PM, said:

So don't the **** blame -2/+2 because of the problems of templates' system, please.

 

What part of the 3/5/7 template being based on +2/-2 matchmaking, and the 5/10 template being based on +1/-1 matchmaking, is so confusing to you, that you continue to fail to see the direct correlation between template and matchmaking in this game?

 

So of course we're gonna blame +2/-2 matchmaking while we're talking about the god-awful 3/5/7 template, the two things ARE intrinsically linked by their very design.

 

This is also why switching 3/5/7 and 5/10 around so that 5/10 becomes the default option is THE optimal solution to this issue, because "5/10 +1/-1" will give EVERYONE across the board a much better chance of actually having some fun in this game for a change, with tanks that are much more closely matched with each other, without constantly being roflstomped by tanks that are two tiers higher than you.


Edited by Flint_74, 30 May 2018 - 09:30 PM.


Axarn #2951 Posted 30 May 2018 - 09:30 PM

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#FREE GOOPLES

 


Edited by Axarn, 30 May 2018 - 09:31 PM.


sefhyro #2952 Posted 30 May 2018 - 09:46 PM

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View Postsefhyro, on 29 May 2018 - 02:34 PM, said:

So i want to see if any of the devs actually have the balls answering this...

 

will there be other options given to players that have preferential mm tanks of any tier ???

 

for example -the chance for a full wen bought refund? 

 

and i`m not talking of be given the valu of the tank in gold whit wg discount in half....

 

or does wg intent into maintain what was writen by them saying the only possible trade is for another premium tank(s)  plus up to 2000 gold on the trade in of the tanks

 

that players currently own that  will suffer the nerf... (and yes its a nerf, that these tanks whit preferential mm will suffer) ???

 

 

come on devs i dare you answer these whiout playing around the bush or liyng....

 

 

 

ohhhh and on a footnote, devs hiding forums replies of players, who do you think you`re folling!!!

 

This post has been edited by the moderation team due to excessive use of capital letters.

 

so...edited by vmx....

 

JUST TO BE CLEAR WEN IS DEVS GOING TO ANSWER OUR QUESTIONS???



Vimorain #2953 Posted 30 May 2018 - 09:53 PM

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View Post_kiss_my_axe_, on 30 May 2018 - 07:09 PM, said:

I have a query: when I buy a premium tank how does the transaction work? Do I buy the vehicle or do I buy an equivalent amount of gold which is then instantly used to get the vehicle? I seem to remember my son's xbox had a similar setup but it was in the t&c's and if you didn't know about it then you would never notice as the purchase just gave you the item and you never saw the gold transaction.

 

The reason I ask is because if I am buying gold to instantly get a premium tank then WG can change anything they like because I didn't actually buy the tank. I, like many others, just click 'accept' and have never read the entire terms and conditions. If this clause is in there I don't see how any legal action is possible.

 

just don't . honestly,take a hint from someone who did and is regretting it. do not give this corrupted company any money .

iKnewIT #2954 Posted 30 May 2018 - 10:01 PM

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View PostFlint_74, on 30 May 2018 - 10:27 PM, said:

 

What part of the 3/5/7 template being based on +2/-2 matchmaking, and the 5/10 template being based on +1/-1 matchmaking, is so confusing to you, that you continue to fail to see the direct correlation between template and matchmaking in this game?

 

So of course we're gonna blame +2/-2 matchmaking while we're talking about the god-awful 3/5/7 template, the two things ARE intrinsically linked by their very design.

 

This is also why switching 3/5/7 and 5/10 around so that 5/10 becomes the default option is THE optimal solution to this issue, because "5/10 +1/-1" will give EVERYONE across the board a much better chance of actually having some fun in this game for a change, with tanks that are much more closely matched with each other, without constantly being roflstomped by tanks that are two tiers higher than you.

 

Nope, nope and one more time nope.

3/5/7 is not equal to -2/+2 and 5/10 is not equal to -1/+1.

Templates' system is not equal to differences in tanks' tiers in a battle.

It's different things.

 

With 5/10 You will be in the bottom of a list the same amount times as with 3/5/7.

I showed it to You.....

http://forum.worldof...8#entry15813178

The only difference is You won't see these 3 +2 tier vehicles some times

But to be clear if it's a big difference playing with CDC or Love if You see 2 Type 4s, 1 Type 4 and 1 Type 5 or 2 Type 5s in front of You?

 

Besides, I'm talking about old MM before 9.18 if You remember it.

It was without templates and -2/+2 tier battles was quite fun then. I mean being -2 tier too.

 

And one more thing for You.

I hope it will be understandable.

More highest tier tanks per battle (or in templates; with or without templates) in 2 and 3 levels battles means You will be more times on top of a battle list.

 

And I wrote it too.

5/10 is worse for PMM even then 3/5/7 because You would clearly get -1/+1 instead of -2 (rarely ;) )/+1.

 

I understand Your wish not to see more than 5 higher tier tanks than Your tank's tier and not more than +1 tier tanks in battles.

But it means very very very bad MM system.

5/10 with -1/+1 is better than 3/5/7 with -2/+2 only in one thing - You will have only +1 tier tanks in battles.

But the hole other evil of templates' system with too little amount of top tier tanks per battle will remain the same.

http://forum.worldof...4#entry15772454

 


Edited by iKnewIT, 31 May 2018 - 07:42 AM.


zeljkosvilokos #2955 Posted 30 May 2018 - 11:25 PM

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What's up WG? No respond?

 

You don't care for us players? Fix the *edited* ALL game issue, make it enjoyable, you can still earn greedy money without killing the players joy.

 


Edited by NickMustaine, 03 June 2018 - 07:49 AM.
Inappropriate remarks


Swen_rudobrody #2956 Posted 30 May 2018 - 11:31 PM

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View PostGremlin182, on 30 May 2018 - 10:13 AM, said:

I think its fairly offensive to keep rolling out the Russian bit every time we do not agree with something they do.

Its pretty sad really, ever made a point of finding out the nationality of a companies board so you can say this is typical of a French German Italian American etc company.

OOH scary its the Soviet mentality PLEASE !

 

 

True, but you don't find many French, German, Italian, or even American companies with a CTO having Stalin's portrait on his desk, feeding their customers with biased version of history, and selling Stalin inscriptions (because they were historical, displaying svastikas, on the other hand, is promoting nazism).


Edited by Swen_rudobrody, 30 May 2018 - 11:36 PM.


Grand_Moff_Tano #2957 Posted 30 May 2018 - 11:35 PM

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View PostSwen_rudobrody, on 30 May 2018 - 10:31 PM, said:

True, but you don't find many French, German, Italian, or even American companies with a CTO having Stalin's portrait on his desk, feeding their customers with biased version of history, and selling Stalin inscriptions (because their where historical, displaying svastikas, on the other hand, is promoting nazism).

 

And not including the Flag of the Rising Sun because it offends some Asian Country instead of defending Historical Accuracy (yeah I know, what Historical Accuracy?).

Scholzei #2958 Posted 30 May 2018 - 11:36 PM

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View PostSwen_rudobrody, on 30 May 2018 - 11:31 PM, said:

True, but you don't find many French, German, Italian, or even American companies with a CTO having Stalin's portrait on his desk, feeding their customers with biased version of history, and selling Stalin inscriptions (because their where historical, displaying svastikas, on the other hand, is promoting nazism).

 

yes man, that is the difference between being on the winning or losing side ;)

Swen_rudobrody #2959 Posted 30 May 2018 - 11:44 PM

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View PostScholzei, on 30 May 2018 - 10:36 PM, said:

 

yes man, that is the difference between being on the winning or losing side ;)

 

There are other countries on the winning side (like US or UK) and their version of history is nowhere near as blatantly propagandous as the Soviet/Russian one.

black_falcon120 #2960 Posted 31 May 2018 - 12:08 AM

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Tbf the Russian bias only seems to be the Russian heavy tanks being fairly easy to play and aren't OP (IS3 excepted), but it is getting a bit off topic. 

 

The real scandal here is that WG left half a dozen premium T8 tanks unplayable for over a year, and seem to be expecting plaudits for doing finally doing something about it...  






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