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The New Prem MM, Super Persh & JT 88

premium tanks new matchmaker Jagdtiger 88 T26E4

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ArmouredElephant #1 Posted 22 May 2018 - 01:47 PM

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As we all know there have been discussions about mm change, it's not something new, but they are getting serious about it. I am not against such changes,and the only reason some premium tanks got limited mm in the first place, was a lack in the armaments & armour department ( most obvious example would be KV5, big target with a weak gun & plenty of weakspots).

 

First, let's discuss the Jagdtiger 88mm 

 

It has weak gun (for it's tier) , that fires pretty fast (4.46 with BiA) and it's a pretty slow vehicle with good armour. As far as I can see, three things can be done about it : 

 

1) Lower it's HP to 1000 and move it to tier 7 and reimburse the players with 2-3K gold (the ones that want to keep it)

2) Give the 88mm same characteristics as the 88 L/100 with (223 AP)  and a bit more damage (280 instead of 240?) while keeping the rest, as to not put the Ferdinand to shame...

3) Drop the 88 and give the 128 with appropriate adjustments . Maybe use the Porsche suspension so it visually looks different compared to tier IX Henschel.

 

And now the T26E4

 

This bad boy has gone through quite a few changes, at one point becoming the opposite of Super... anyways, this is way simpler than the JT

 

- this is medium in game but let's face it it's an assault tank... give it the same pen as T26E5 230 AP; and since this game stopped being historical long ago, might as well fit it with the Continental AV 1790/1  (704hp) this way the regular M46 will still get a better engine, everyone wins.

 

Note* These are just 2 tanks that I am interested in and would like to keep, however there are other tanks ( ex: FCM 50T) that need some decent buffs to be made competitive against higher tiers.

 

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Edited by ArmouredElephant, 23 May 2018 - 01:21 PM.


WhoCares01 #2 Posted 22 May 2018 - 02:00 PM

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Do we have to consider it a freudian slip, that you relate the T26E4 to the tier 9 M46, and not the tier 8 Pershing? Not that I would not agree that 192 pen (or 190 at the Pershing) are no longer adequate against like >30% of tier 9 and 10 tanks they face...



pecopad #3 Posted 22 May 2018 - 02:24 PM

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The main issue with premium tanks is that its hard to make money from them, apart from few exceptions, because of the low value of pen in the non prem rounds.

 

Super Pershing is not a bad tank, but there are few reasons to play it because you hardly make any money from it comparing with the Raviolli or the Lorraine.

 

IMO there should be 3 type of premium tanks:

 

Competitive tanks: on par with the best tech tree tanks but where you make little and even lose money from playing them.

Money makers and crew trainers: To ease the credit and crew grind. This tanks don't have to be competitive, they can be average tech tree tanks

Collector tanks: For people who want to collect them.

 

Reward tanks should be either money makers or from the collectors type.



ArmouredElephant #4 Posted 22 May 2018 - 02:31 PM

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View PostWhoCares01, on 22 May 2018 - 07:00 AM, said:

Do we have to consider it a freudian slip, that you relate the T26E4 to the tier 9 M46, and not the tier 8 Pershing? Not that I would not agree that 192 pen (or 190 at the Pershing) are no longer adequate against like >30% of tier 9 and 10 tanks they face...

 

   M46 KR has a 810HP engine while the standard 46, has an upgraded version (820HP); I suggested the "mid" engine from the standard 46 (704HP) since it's not as good the KR or regular 46's engine...regardless, the Korean 46 will still be faster than the T26E4 (I have both, and would like to have them to have a different play style, T26E4 can take and dish the shots from the front better, while the 46 KR could flank and get there faster

THE_JACK_OF_HEARTS #5 Posted 22 May 2018 - 02:32 PM

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No Reward tanks are a reward for playing, not for keeping the company afloat Pecopad,....

Gvozdika #6 Posted 22 May 2018 - 02:39 PM

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A few problems with those ideas. 

 

JT 8.8 - the main issue it has is not just the long 88 (which is pretty bad vs. T8s and T9s at the moment - will be useless vs T10s) but a distinct lack of armour (only the superstructure is remotely tough - even then only vs T7 or less) AND mobility. The only reason the T9 JT isn't extinct is that epic long 128cm cannon - yet if you drop in anything other than a long 88 in the JT 8.8 - you no longer have a JT 8.8! You could buff the long 88 quite a bit but you still have a big, slow, easy-to-spot target that gets stuffed over by arty, premium rounds of lower tiers and most T8+ regular rounds. That's why the Tiger II is probably one of the worst T8 heavies at the moment - the 105 gun is actually not too bad but the chassis is no longer tough or mobile enough to do well in higher-tier matches. 

 

You *could* drop it down a tier - but then it wouldn't provide the same XP/credit gain as it would at T8. It would also be *worth* less as a T7 premium than a T8 premium - effectively devaluing your original purchase.

 

Super Pershing probably just needs a decent mobility upgrade to bring it closer to it's regular Pershing counterpart (slightly less mobility than the tech-tree option though) and you'd have a reasonably durable medium-heavy hybrid. Or they keep it just as slow but beef up the bolt-on armour plate to be a bit more resistant vs. high-power rounds at range - keep the existing weakspots to enable low-tiers to hurt them at shorter distances. It is probably the one of the few pref-MM tanks which will probably not need much tweaking to make it suitable for +2 MM. 

 



IZMIR_METRO #7 Posted 22 May 2018 - 02:44 PM

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Wargaming won't even care about ideas on Pref MM tanks on EU forum sadly, as a JG88 owner I can say that chassis and hull is complete trash in current meta. The only thing can save JG88 is Skorp G's gun.



pecopad #8 Posted 22 May 2018 - 02:49 PM

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View PostTHE_JACK_OF_HEARTS, on 22 May 2018 - 02:32 PM, said:

No Reward tanks are a reward for playing, not for keeping the company afloat Pecopad,....

 

I think no game can survive much time if they make the best players even better buy rewarding them better stuff.

 

Rewards should be cosmetic stuff, maybe crew trainers and credit grinders for the missions, but that's it.


WG should protect the paying customers, pay to lose and be an HP piñata is not a good business model.


Edited by pecopad, 22 May 2018 - 02:53 PM.


Search_Warrant #9 Posted 22 May 2018 - 03:20 PM

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You forgot all the weak spots SP has and the gun/engine will do nothing. its armor doesent work in tier 8 let alone 10. useless buffs IMO.

 

Jig8.8 has an amazing gun for the Tier, DPM/aimtime anyways. shame its attached to a pile of crap casemate tho.



Balc0ra #10 Posted 22 May 2018 - 03:26 PM

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View PostArmouredElephant, on 22 May 2018 - 01:47 PM, said:

As we all know there have been discussions about mm change, it's not something new, but they are getting serious about it. I am not against such changes,and the only reason some premium tanks got limited mm in the first place, was a lack in the armaments & armour department ( most obvious example would be KV5, big target with a weak gun & plenty of weakspots)....

 

 

88 needs a mobility buff as well. As the one reason most don't play it is not only the gun alone. But it's a snail traversing around. If they buffed the pen on the 88 to match the L100. It could at least keep the DPM. If they give it anything close to 240 etc.. DPM trade off is needed.

 

Same with the T26E4. It's not 100% useless atm as it has the same pen as the rest of the US tier 8 meds... that have +2 MM. If anything they should give it the engine it should have to give it good mobility for +2. Not the E5 gun, as I would def not play that on the HT line vs a Maus or an E100 even if it had 300 pen.

 

 

View PostGvozdika, on 22 May 2018 - 02:39 PM, said:

A few problems with those ideas. 

 

JT 8.8 - the main issue it has is not just the long 88 (which is pretty bad vs. T8s and T9s at the moment - will be useless vs T10s) but a distinct lack of armour (only the superstructure is remotely tough - even then only vs T7 or less) AND mobility.

 

To be fair... the 88 has more armor on the lower plate then the tier 9. As when that buff came around, none of the other pref MM tier 8 guns could pen that unless they got a high pen roll. But they could with an average roll vs the tier 9.

AuroraBoreaIis #11 Posted 22 May 2018 - 05:49 PM

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I think (hope) they'll turn it into the Jagdtiger (H), which is already in the game files as a tier 8 premium. It's essentially a stock Jagdtiger (so with the 'short' 128 mm gun). Of course it has to be balanced around the Ferdinand. 

 

Imo it's the only way to balance this at tier 8 with full mm. I don't think fixing the long 88 on this platform can be done at this tier, without premium mm. On the other hand, balancing it with the 128mm while still keeping it fun to play is possible I think. 

 

Alternatively, I would also accept downgrading it to tier 7, with compensation. 

 

Anyway, I restored my JT 88 in hopes for the first option. 

 

 

Also wonder what will be the plan with IS-6, 112, WZ-111, Type 59 and FCM 50t (am I still missing tanks?)


Edited by AuroraBoreaIis, 22 May 2018 - 05:50 PM.


tank276 #12 Posted 22 May 2018 - 06:57 PM

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View PostAuroraBoreaIis, on 22 May 2018 - 04:49 PM, said:

 

 

 

Also wonder what will be the plan with IS-6, 112, WZ-111, Type 59 and FCM 50t (am I still missing tanks?)

T 34-3, Mutant, KV 5 and Super Pershing.



Bulldog_Drummond #13 Posted 22 May 2018 - 07:07 PM

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JgT 88 is a pain to play.  Gets plenty of credits but you can rely on helping your team to a lose result most of the time.

santtis #14 Posted 22 May 2018 - 07:12 PM

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I would like to see SuperPershing as a more mobile version. If it moves like a true medium I think it will be fine.

sgtYester #15 Posted 22 May 2018 - 08:08 PM

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when will the kanonenjagdpanzer get buffed????? they were looking at installin a 105 gun... but what happened??

Spurtung #16 Posted 23 May 2018 - 05:01 AM

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View Postpecopad, on 22 May 2018 - 03:49 PM, said:

I think no game can survive much time if they make the best players even better buy rewarding them better stuff.

 

Rewards should be cosmetic stuff, maybe crew trainers and credit grinders for the missions, but that's it.


WG should protect the paying customers, pay to lose and be an HP piñata is not a good business model.

 

You're dense, mate.

 

You know how they can really get more players? By having proper eSports. For that you need enticing prizes, not the Scrooge WG they have been all along, while keeping in the top 10 of revenue. You also need balance, real balance and no more of that ridiculous "2 ammo types balanced for the same 1 armor".

When you get those 2 things combined, players will flock in, even if the vast majority will never win anything.

 

Look at LoL, Arguably a cartoon game, but see their numbers on both those things.

 

 

What you propose would drain this game of its best players even more and the remaining wouldn't see a point in improving or spending, as there's no real rewards in tournaments or for even playing the game in a top skill environment. We'd see how many paying customer they'd be protecting and what from.



SuperOlsson #17 Posted 23 May 2018 - 06:29 AM

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Inb4 SuperPershing will just become a shittier T26E5, the pref mm tanks that can become interesting are the 390 alpha ones.

Search_Warrant #18 Posted 23 May 2018 - 12:15 PM

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View PostSuperOlsson, on 23 May 2018 - 05:29 AM, said:

Inb4 SuperPershing will just become a shittier T26E5, the pref mm tanks that can become interesting are the 390 alpha ones.

 

This is basically what i was expecting, if it went faster and had more pen it would be a straight worse Patriot.

RaptorAbt #19 Posted 23 May 2018 - 12:23 PM

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I wonder what they will do to the T14 ? :coin:

Rati_Festa #20 Posted 23 May 2018 - 01:01 PM

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View PostsgtYester, on 22 May 2018 - 08:08 PM, said:

when will the kanonenjagdpanzer get buffed????? they were looking at installin a 105 gun... but what happened??

 

That's a very good point. The Kanj and the CDC should have been a pref mm tanks on launch, both were bad and now in current meta are garbage. WG spend time fixing things that don't need fixing ( removing pref mm ) while they have crap in game that urgently needs fixing ( crap tanks that loyal customers paid good money for ).

 

On topic of the jag 8.8 I don't think that tank is able to fight t10 with any buffs, if there is one of the pref mm tanks that should drop a tier it should be that one. Leave it as it is and just drop a tier, its the most boring crap ever, if someone wants to seal club in that they have my blessing.


Edited by Rati_Festa, 23 May 2018 - 01:02 PM.





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